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do better
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Discussion Starter #1
All offseason the sentiment I've read regarding LeBron is that people think a weight's been lifted off his shoulder with the ring, and if possible he'll play even freer without all the BS and people on his back...Carmelo maybe said it the best:

"I think, believe it or not, he's become more humble than he was before. This whole experience has humbled him as a person, as a basketball player. It definitely took a big burden off of his shoulders. At the end of the day, for him, it's just enjoying it. I don't think he really enjoyed playing, had fun playing, the basketball game up until he won the championship. Now I think you'll see some of his better days"
At 27 years old, the next 2-3 years are pretty much the peak of the peak for most players. It's very well possible we're all going to be lucky enough to see the best basketball anyone has ever played.

I mean at the least for most people my age we're about to see the best player of our lifetime at his peak, because Jordan didn't really count for us.

My advice, if you really call yourself a basketball fan, cut out the BS, watch and be awed like you're supposed to.

 

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Wiltside
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Thank you. Much appreciate hearing this from a non-Heat fan. We've been saying it since the Decision recoil, but its never been truer than now. He's a once in a universe talent. Even if it weren't for his all-world passing skills, his body and scoring talent would make him one of the best players in the game. If you don't appreciate his game, you're doing yourself a disservice as a basketball fan.

And why can't we count Jordan? I'm only two years older than you and grew up watching him win all 6 championships. Doesn't hurt that my name is Jordan and my dad nudged me in the direction of Jordan-fandom at a very young age. Being older and now appreciating the game more, I almost have to say watching LeBron is even more entertaining for me, partly because of his broader skillset. Of course I'm a bit biased that he actually plays for my city, unlike Jordan.
 

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do better
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Discussion Starter #3
How old were you in 96? The tail end of the run...I'm not counting it because I didn't know shit about basketball at like 8 but I mean I guess.

I don't think he's your era if you weren't like 16-17 at least during the early 90s..otherwise you were just too young to fully appreciate him and say he was your era when you really started learning your shit.

But let's not derail the main premise
 

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I'm with Dre on not counting Jordan for people my age. I'm 26, and wasn't old enough to remember the first few championships nor the crazy 37ppg, 35ppg seasons he had before the rings.

But I've always liked LeBron. It's just other parts of the Heat that rubbed me the wrong way.
 

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Wiltside
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I know I watched the Bulls/Lakers series, but don't remember it. Obviously I don't remember anything before that.

What parts of the Heat rub you the wrong way (just curious, not saying they're infallible.)

I know a common target is the welcome party. Everyone seems to want to believe that was the players' idea. They were rolled out on the stage without knowing what was happening. Was LeBron's "not 1..." remark silly? Entitled? Definitely, but outside fans have to realize he was asked a question about whether or not he came to Miami to just win one title, and, without considering the clip might reach national airwaves, got caught up in the excitement. People need to move past that.

Alright, go.

How old were you in 96? The tail end of the run...I'm not counting it because I didn't know shit about basketball at like 8 but I mean I guess.

I don't think he's your era if you weren't like 16-17 at least during the early 90s..otherwise you were just too young to fully appreciate him and say he was your era when you really started learning your shit.

But let's not derail the main premise
When they won in 96, I was 10. I have vivid memories of them winning in '92 and '93 (including squirting an entire box of minute maid grape juice around my living room as I watched them celebrate in the locker room after beating PHX). Definitely didn't have a full-enough scope to fully understand the totality of his greatness, but due to all the hype, I was aware that he was considered the best ever. Still, when comparing my appreciation for the game now and then, the difference is drastic, so I get where you're coming from.

Alright, back on topic.
 

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Shaq in 99-00 is still the best season of the past 20 years.
 

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Most people are off the Lebron hate. I fairly publicly ate my words on him last year after he seemed to go through a very large maturing process. The flailing around the court when someone touches him is gone. The arguing with refs on every play he doesn't score or someone scores on him is gone. The stupid interviews are gone. All that is left is the best basketball player on the planet right now. And that, I can respect.

Wade is still a gigantic bitch, but Lebron, he's grown up a ton. Hes dropped the bullshit and is better for it. Expecting a monster year this year from him.
 

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one stipulation: why cant I both enjoy the greatness of his game while remaining fully cognizant that he's a tool? skill and acheivement in basketball has nothing to do with character
 

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Don't forget that Wade's production will most likely go down this season given the fact he's starting to age and injuries as well, Lebron has the potential this year to have a better season possibly than one Jordan ever had in his career. Lebron doesn't care much for stats, but he's such an incredibly talented player that it might possibly happen anyways. He's just that good.
 

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I would love to see Wade develop some semblance of a three point shot, start molding his game to compensate not only for his diminishing athleticism, but also try to become a better running mate for LeBron James.

It felt special to watch LeBron last playoffs, he became everything we saw in him as a rookie. If he can keep up that level of play the next couple of NBA seasons are going to be extremely enjoyable to watch.
 

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I doubt Wade will develop a consistent three point shot. He's never cared much for three pointers and that was never really his style of play. I do think that would be a great thing for Wade but I don't see it happening. Also, I think with Bosh entering his prime now, and not to mention his role on the team increasing tremendously with him becoming a center (although I still think that will be a big mistake when they face teams like the Lakers), I think we will be seeing a lot more out of Bosh than we have the last two seasons, a more balanced Big Three per say. I don't think Bosh will put up more efficient numbers than Wade or anything but his stats will most likely improve. Many people have forgotten that despite his decreased numbers, Bosh is still one of the best PF's in the NBA, maybe even the second best with Kevin Love taking the top spot. So I think Bosh is another person we should also watch out for.

Also keep in mind the fact that Miami has an incredibly dangerous 3 point shooting team now. With an improved Chalmers and veteran Battier in the starting line up, and then having the all time leader in 3 pointers, Ray Allen, and others such as Mike Miller, Richard Lewis and James Jones (deadly three point shooter especially with the amount of minutes per game he plays, all two of them) all coming off the bench, Lebron's assists numbers may very well go up, especially with Allen. We're most likely going to see Lebron dish the ball out to an open Allen quite a few times during a game, and Allen will usually make these shots. I'm predicting that Lebron's assists numbers will go up in the 8's and his rebounding will be somewhere along 8 as well if he attacks the glass as efficiently as he did in the playoffs. His scoring though, I honestly don't know what he will do.

Oh and I think Lebron may very well tie Kareem's record for most MVP awards, in fact he might actually beat that record and become a 7 time MVP. He's already a 3 time MVP which is absolutely incredible at age 27, and even though Durant will become a great player, he will never have the all around effect that Lebron does. I see Durant getting one MVP award (two if he's lucky) over the course of the next six seasons. I honestly don't see anyone else besides Kevin Love taking away the MVP award and that's only if he increases his stats dramatically and leads the Wolves to a 50 or 60 win season.
 

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do better
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Discussion Starter #13
one stipulation: why cant I both enjoy the greatness of his game while remaining fully cognizant that he's a tool? skill and acheivement in basketball has nothing to do with character
:gay:
This ain't the ****ing humanitarian awards
 

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All offseason the sentiment I've read regarding LeBron is that people think a weight's been lifted off his shoulder with the ring, and if possible he'll play even freer without all the BS and people on his back...Carmelo maybe said it the best:



At 27 years old, the next 2-3 years are pretty much the peak of the peak for most players. It's very well possible we're all going to be lucky enough to see the best basketball anyone has ever played.

I mean at the least for most people my age we're about to see the best player of our lifetime at his peak, because Jordan didn't really count for us.

My advice, if you really call yourself a basketball fan, cut out the BS, watch and be awed like you're supposed to.
Even i, a "Lebron-hater", am very curious to see the next couple of years/seasons from him.
It's like this is year 0 for him: you won the championship, and what you've done so far makes you a rightfull top-12/15/17/whatever player of all time. NOW let's see how high you can get on the list.
A couple (more) monster seasons from Lebron James and we will have to reshuffle our consideration of him compared to the greatests ever.
 

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:gay:
This ain't the ****ing humanitarian awards
of course it isnt, what on earth would you have to do with such a thing?

on the other hand it is a call for a reconsideration of Lebron based solely on the quality of his game or the fact that he's now won a title - now when I look at Bobby Fisher I have no problem separating the genius chess player from the tin foil hat wearing nut job or when I look at Mike I have no problem seeing both The GOAT and a petty, insecure grudge holding diva

and when I look at Lebron I can see both a 'once in a generation' talent and an immature self centered narcissist - the two are not mutually exclusive; if that is too complicated for you Im not at all concerned as Im not going to spend too much time dwelling on your limitations as a person
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You're not separating it if you're bringing it up in a thread about his play, genius
 

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You're not separating it if you're bringing it up in a thread about his play, genius
and Im telling you it's both since you apparently dont understand the words you are using in your own OP - what 'bs' are you talking about afterall? most people have a beef with him about his off the court shenanigans
 
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