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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
25 pts, 15 rebs, 5 assts, 1 stl, 1 blk, 1 turnover, and the W.

Yep, he's an All Star.
 

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Out of curiosity, are you on a crusade against Zach Randolph? I mean, I agree that he wasn't "snubbed," and I've posted that opinion once, but you don't seem to be willing to let Portland fans blow off a little steam about a close decision against their player on the Portland board.

I mean, it's your right to post whatever you feel like. But you seem so determined to write one post after another to argue those that think Randolph should be there, it's as though it's a mission to you.
 

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Big deal one game...pretty tough to score when you never get double teamed, never realy get guarded by the teams top defender and have more then 3 great outside shooters to take the load off of you. Brad Miller could never lead a team by himself or be a 2nd fiddle man either. yes, he is good, but he is just a good complementary player. Sacto is Peja team not Millers..where as Portland is Zach's team.
 

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I bet Brad Miller looked AWESOME tonight dominating the likes of the vicous Jerome James and Vitaly Potapenko, man that is some tough D to put up numbers on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey, I don't recall Z-Bo putting up such numbers against Seattle.

Maybe he got the points and rebounds. But I don't recall Z-Bo only getting 1 turnover.

Those turnovers make a difference. If he only had 1 turnover in our last game at Seattle, then we would have won the game.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Am I on some personal crusade? Not really.

But I just want people to know that no one is out to get the Blazers. Z-Bo wasn't snubbed. The guys who got picked are better.
 

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So you are saying if you were the Blazers and you were starting a team and you could pick Zach Randolph or Brad Miller you would pick Brad?:confused:
 

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Right now, Brad is a more complete player. If you wanted to build a team to be competitive now (which, I believe, is what the All-Star selections are based on), then he'd probably be the better choice. If you want to build for the future, Zach would be tough to pass on.

All-Star selections don't weigh what a player might do in the future. If you can't understand that, prepare to be extremely disappointed this time every year.

Zach missing out is merely a sign that he hasn't arrived at that level yet. No one's out to get him. Some of you sound like Oliver Stone on a bad day.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Exactly. This is about THIS season.

This season, the Blazers would be a much MUCH better team with Brad Miller instead of Zach Randolph. I'll take 7 fewer points if I get more assists, less turnovers, better shooting, and a block more a game. The sum of those additional things that Brad does is the difference between winning and losing.

Honestly, which team wins more games?

PG-Damon, SG- DA, SF- Miles, PF- Zach, C- Sheed

or

PG- Damon, SG- DA, SF-Miles, PF- Sheed, C- Miller ?

That said, this is only based on what I've seen in half a season. Randolph has every opportunity to become better than Brad Miller in the second half of the season and I hope he does. In fact, I bet Randolph scores 40 tonight. Suns don't have anyone who can handle him. Mark it down. New career high from Randolph tonight.
 

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Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
Right now, Brad is a more complete player. If you wanted to build a team to be competitive now (which, I believe, is what the All-Star selections are based on), then he'd probably be the better choice. If you want to build for the future, Zach would be tough to pass on.

All-Star selections don't weigh what a player might do in the future. If you can't understand that, prepare to be extremely disappointed this time every year.

Zach missing out is merely a sign that he hasn't arrived at that level yet. No one's out to get him. Some of you sound like Oliver Stone on a bad day.

Dan
Miller more of a complete player? Well, he may be just because he is a little better defensively and passes the ball better. I wouldnt' go so far as saying Brad is that much better than Z-Bo even right now. Z-Bo can change a game offensively and very few players can do that. Teams always have to be aware of where he is. Teams don't have to gameplan against Miller as much. And I don't think people here really think Z-Bo is a marked man for some reason. No one is out to get him or screw him. Flip Saunders decided to go with other players. If the coach was Adelman or Jackson, maybe Z-Bo goes to the all-star game. Z-Bo is right up there with many of the reserves and that's a fact. The numbers don't lie and he is putting up all-star numbers this year.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
This season, the Blazers would be a much MUCH better team with Brad Miller instead of Zach Randolph. I'll take 7 fewer points if I get more assists, less turnovers, better shooting, and a block more a game. The sum of those additional things that Brad does is the difference between winning and losing.
One can argue that is not true. I really don't think Portland would have more wins with Miller than Z-Bo. Portland can't lose the points. Who is going to do it night in and night out. I guarantee it wouldn't be Miller. Sheed scores when he wants to and all the others have a good game here and there. Miller is a good player but let's not go as far as saying he would make a big difference over Z-Bo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Saunders didn't make the decision by himself. All 14 Western Conference coaches, including Cheeks, voted on these reserves.

The stats absolutely don't lie. Randolph is a relatively easy guard, esp when Sheed is out, as we all saw. Sure he gets his 21 points but at what price after all those turnovers and he doesn't stop his man on the other side of the floor?

Brad Miller has the 4th best Efficiency Rating in the entire NBA. The stats absolutely don't lie. Randolph used to be up there, but he dropped off and is now 9th, which sounds good until you find out that 7 of the 8 players ahead of him play forward in the West. The competition is just so tough.

Brad Miller has had two triple doubles this season. Don't underplay that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
antibody- do you watch the games? How often does Z-Bo 'get his numbers' but it just doesn't matter cuz he's getting his numbers, his TURNOVER numbers that is. And his lack of defense too.

Wasn't it in Memphis where we didn't even play Randolph in the 4th qtr and then we ran away with the game?

And where was Randolph when Sheed was out? He wasn't carrying the load, that's for sure. 7 points in Chicago?

Don't overrate Randolph. He'll get there soon, but he's not there yet.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
The stats absolutely don't lie. Randolph is a relatively easy guard, esp when Sheed is out, as we all saw. Sure he gets his 21 points but at what price after all those turnovers and he doesn't stop his man on the other side of the floor?

Brad Miller has the 4th best Efficiency Rating in the entire NBA. The stats absolutely don't lie. Randolph used to be up there, but he dropped off and is now 9th, which sounds good until you find out that 7 of the 8 players ahead of him play forward in the West. The competition is just so tough.

Brad Miller has had two triple doubles this season. Don't underplay that.
Randolph is a relatively easy guard? I'm sorry but that is not true. He has made very good defenders look bad almost all year now. You don't score 21 ppg and just do it because you are lucky. Who cares if Miller had two triple doubles. Z-Bo's had many good games this year...don't underplay that. I know that Flip doesn't have ultimate control over what players get in but he does have some power...it just works that way. Things could be different with another coach.
 

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Compare apples to apples

I think comparing the two is a little bit wrong in the first place. Brad Miller is a center. Zach is a Forward. Since the all star team can only have so many players on the team of each position, somebody is going to get snubbed. The Western Conference has an abundance of talented forwards, many of them Veterans and previous all stars, who have a lot more history in the league then Zach. To make the Leap that Brad Miller is better then Zach Randolph because he made the all star game is a fallacy. All it shows is that Brad Miller is high enough on the CENTER list to make the all star team. It does not say who is better. If you go by statistic lines, I think you know who is a better player, and who has more upside. That is Zach. The guy is only in his first year of starting full time, and he already averages 8 more points a game then Brad while shooting a high percentage. They average about the same amount of rebounds, again, Zach is slightly better. Brad Miller has years of league experience, and is probably at his peak. At his peak, he is about equal to 2/3 of a Zach. I think when Zach peaks, he will bury Brad, if he does not do so already.
 

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On the one hand, I agree with Minstrel that pounding away at ZR supporters is getting a bit old.

On the other hand, I can't believe people are actually arguing that Miller's night last night was some kind of fluke or that ZR's had a better season than Brad.

I'm not a Miller fan, and I said some harsh things about him this past summer, but he's been awesome for the NBA-best Kings this year (yes, I know the Pacers have the best winning % but they get to play the East a lot more than the Kings do).

ZR's outscoring him 21.5 to 14.8, but Miller's outshooting him (51.7 to 48.3%) from the field and (78.8 to 76.6%) from the line. Their rebounds are a push (11.0 for ZR to 10.8 for Miller) but Miller's assists are over twice a game what ZR's are and his blocks are close to three times as high... all while getting 50% fewer turnovers.

Even accounting for the Kings' increased pace, Miller's had a more impressive statistical first half to me.

Add in the fact that (a) Miller plays center, which is a tougher spot to fill than PF, and (b) Miller actually plays defense, which ZR does not do, and (c) the Kings' record relative to the Blazers' record and it's clear to me that Brad deserved it more than Zach.

This year.

Ed O.
 

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One could look at it another way. 21.5 to 14.8 is a big difference in scoring however you look at it. FG% and FT% are very close as are the rebounds. Miller does have the edge in some other stats for sure. I say it is very close. Z-Bo is very important to Portland because of the scoring. I do not think playing center is more difficult than playing PF in the West. What good centers are there in the West? Shaq and that's it. Yao is getting there. The PF spot is a tough matchup night in and night out practically. Maybe Miller did deserve it more but it's really close.
 
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