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Go easy on me guys since it's a first time post. The Brand-Chandler trade could be good for Chicago, but at the time we got ripped off. A 20-10 guy for a high schooler and Brian Skinner. Krause should've asked for Maggette or Q. Then we would have been set. Opinions?
 

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I would have loved that, but the Clips aren't stupid. They knew how much Chandler's potential was worth, and they weren't gonna get ripped off. I still like the deal, though Maggete is just the type of player we need now.
 

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Brand was shopped netween the Wiz and the Clips and JK went for the best offer. More would have been nice, but 15 years from now, we should still be enjoying Chandler as one of the best players in the league. I have no complaints.
 

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Let me be the first to welcome you?

Originally posted by Benny the Bull
Go easy on me guys since it's a first time post. The Brand-Chandler trade could be good for Chicago, but at the time we got ripped off. A 20-10 guy for a high schooler and Brian Skinner. Krause should've asked for Maggette or Q. Then we would have been set. Opinions?
Hindsight is ALWAYS 20-20,however, at the time, I too, was a bit disappointed in the trade. Hopefully, Chandler will begin to prove his worth, THIS season. :yes:
 

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I feel the same way as BamaBull about the trade, I'm just hoping that Chandler really shows his worth this year I think it would ease the way people feel about the trade.
 

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JK shocked the world with the Brand for Chandler swap on draft day.

What the move essentially signified was a starting over of rebuilding the post-dynasty Bulls. The first attempt was to build around Elton, with high draft picks and significant FA acquisitions. This didn't fly. So essentially, this trade put the future in the hands of two HSers. A huge gamble and unprecedented.

To this day, I'm a bit soar about the trade for a couple reasons. I loved Elton, and he was exactly the spokesman the Bulls needed. In addition, he was the picture of consistency (20/10 a night). It BS when people say his game 'couldn't improve'... whatever. He developed a face up game last season w/ the Clips, bulked up, made the All-Star team in the tough West, and was second in the league in double doubles. TC is a few years away from 20/10, if he ever gets there. That's really hard to argue against.

This all being said, it was a good move to make. Elton, when he played on the Bulls, was more of a plodder and relied all too heavily on his post up game (he's since opened it up a bit w/ LA). Couple with Artest.. it made for some brutal, brutal games offensively. Moving Elton did help us showcase Artest and Miller (resulting in Jalen Rose), so in this way it was great for the Bulls. Adding Rose arguably the most important move the rebuilding Bulls have done thus far.

Hindsight is always 20/20 (as always), but for my money I would have loved to see Elton here in Chicago for many, many years. And I do believe he would have re-signed too.

VD
 

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Well, it's a pointless discussion in a lot of ways, but I think this:

1. Chandler has the potential to be more than Elton, but he has a ways to go before he's as good as Elton, and it's still potential . He may never get there, and part of me says that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

2. I think the trade was actually driven by a desire to manage the salary cap (long-term) as much as it was to get a player that would be a superstar. When Krause wiffed on the big free agent signings, it meant they'd still not be very good when they had to give Elton a new deal. That would mean both that he was a risk to leave, and that they would be losing cap flexibility without really having established a team that could go to the championships.*

*I think this last point is important in general. Loosing your cap space, going over the cap, and potentially even paying the luxury tax kind of makes sense if you're keeping together a championship calibre team in a big city. High cost teams themselves aren't a problem if they're generating high revenues.
 

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Originally posted by Mikedc
Well, it's a pointless discussion in a lot of ways, but I think this:

1. Chandler has the potential to be more than Elton, but he has a ways to go before he's as good as Elton, and it's still potential . He may never get there, and part of me says that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

2. I think the trade was actually driven by a desire to manage the salary cap (long-term) as much as it was to get a player that would be a superstar. When Krause wiffed on the big free agent signings, it meant they'd still not be very good when they had to give Elton a new deal. That would mean both that he was a risk to leave, and that they would be losing cap flexibility without really having established a team that could go to the championships.*

*I think this last point is important in general. Loosing your cap space, going over the cap, and potentially even paying the luxury tax kind of makes sense if you're keeping together a championship calibre team in a big city. High cost teams themselves aren't a problem if they're generating high revenues.
Nice post MikeDC.

Per your first point, it is generally assumed that TC has a higher ceiling than Elton. Fine. But is a little hard for me to imagine being better than 20/10 every night at the PF position in the West. Hmm... we're talking KG-like or Tim Duncan like production here. That's an area reserved for NBA elite and superstars, and TC has a long way to go to get there. And few, if any, get to that kind of production and status.

I agree with the second point. But I also want to say that the Bulls have been making a TON of money the past 4 seasons, arguably more than even during our championship years. Reason being, for more than two years or so we kept the perfect attendence record at the UC, and have had relatively high attendence throughout all the past 4 seasons, all while keeping near lows in salary (to attract that 'big name' FA).

So to be redundant, I like the Rose move b/c it solidified an NBA star being here for the next 4-5 seasons. He essentially became the new cog to the new look Bulls. And yes, as you say, we remain flexible in a few years time when the twin towers and Jay Williams are looking for some cheddar.

VD
 

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Originally posted by Vin Diesel


Nice post MikeDC.

Per your first point, it is generally assumed that TC has a higher ceiling than Elton. Fine. But is a little hard for me to imagine being better than 20/10 every night at the PF position in the West. Hmm... we're talking KG-like or Tim Duncan like production here. That's an area reserved for NBA elite and superstars, and TC has a long way to go to get there. And few, if any, get to that kind of production and status.

I agree with the second point. But I also want to say that the Bulls have been making a TON of money the past 4 seasons, arguably more than even during our championship years. Reason being, for more than two years or so we kept the perfect attendence record at the UC, and have had relatively high attendence throughout all the past 4 seasons, all while keeping near lows in salary (to attract that 'big name' FA).

So to be redundant, I like the Rose move b/c it solidified an NBA star being here for the next 4-5 seasons. He essentially became the new cog to the new look Bulls. And yes, as you say, we remain flexible in a few years time when the twin towers and Jay Williams are looking for some cheddar.

VD
Tykes combination of size and athleticism means he can do a lot on the court. What we've seen thus far has been the rawest work he could do---jumping to swat balls out of the air---jumping to grab rebounds---jumping to dunk the basketball.

Krause drafted him to develop him. With his reach and length, he should be able to develop an effective turn-around, a post game (provided he can bulk up enough to hold his spot on the floor), a drive, fake, pump and short shot.

I hate to sound like a homer, but he really has the athletic talent to develop into a good offensive weapon. He just needs time time time time time time.
 

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Somehow I feel that if we had the number one pick in the draft last year, we would have selected Chandler. Don't have any proof, knowledge or links, but I do think it is true.
 

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A disaster averted

Songcycle, I was looking at old posts back at RealGM a couple of months back and came across a thread where HJ was claiming that according to some of his sources a trade of Brand and the #4 for Kwame might not have been crazy. Those sources apparently thought Kwame was that good.

Thank God we never made that trade.
 

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Originally posted by Songcycle
Somehow I feel that if we had the number one pick in the draft last year, we would have selected Chandler. Don't have any proof, knowledge or links, but I do think it is true.
I vaguely remember Jerry K said this months after the draft had taken place. This is questionable, especially b/c TC had shown flashes and Kwame struggled all season.

But yeah, its great to have TC on board. Though its a bit premature, I see Kwame as the next Joe Smith and TC as the next... well, Tyson Chandler [ie. will make a great name for himself] He's got a shot to be a special player.

VD
 

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Originally posted by Vin Diesel

But I also want to say that the Bulls have been making a TON of money the past 4 seasons, arguably more than even during our championship years. Reason being, for more than two years or so we kept the perfect attendence record at the UC, and have had relatively high attendence throughout all the past 4 seasons, all while keeping near lows in salary (to attract that 'big name' FA).
Thanks and likewise,

I'd really love to see the books on the Bulls for the past ten years or so. For that matter, I'd like to see it on most every franchise. It'd be interesting to relate ticket and conession sales, franchise merchandising, etc to on-court performance, and hence, salaries.

My gut feeling is still that high salaries are "worth it" in some situations if you consider ALL the additional revenues that come into play. I could be wrong though.

But then again, I'm an economist, so things like that are interesting to me.
 

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Joe Smith---:laugh:


I remember Krause saying after the draft that there were three big men on the board that they liked and that he got two of them.


I don't know about the four AND Brand though. I think the plan was *always* to get two big men to develop.

I also think Kwame would have fared better with Cartwright as his tutor. He'll be ok---but his head is way messed up now. He'll end up leaving and being good for someone else...
 
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