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That's 2 top-5 busts (JWill) for the Bulls in the last 3 years- a major reason why our rebuilding plan hasn't gone to plan.

He doesn't play. It doesn't appear as though they are trying to trade him. He doesn't fit on the current team. He isn't in the long term plans of the team?

Marcus Fizer, the #4 pick of the '01 Draft is a bust.

Can't we get a decent back-up for him?
 

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Maybe a year ago you could have, but now he looks like a total bust and his trade value is peanuts.

This is the problem with people who say you shouldn't trade your young players until you know whether they will reach their potential. If they still have a chance to reach it, their trade value is pretty good. Once everyone considers them busts, they are worthless in trades.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
Maybe a year ago you could have, but now he looks like a total bust and his trade value is peanuts.

This is the problem with people who say you shouldn't trade your young players until you know whether they will reach their potential. If they still have a chance to reach it, their trade value is pretty good. Once everyone considers them busts, they are worthless in trades.
I dont think Fizer was ever really much of a trade possibility. He has everything going against him. He is a short, thick PF with little rebounding or defensive skills. He is lost outside of the painted area. We all know he was drafted after the Clips and magic did an endaround on the Sleuth regarding DMiles. We got stuck with a player Floyd but noone else really wanted in Chicago in the first place. He'll be gone soon enough. Pax wont pay a single cent for his services next year. May end up in New Orleans as a scoring back up with the slow walkitup the court Hornets. Thats the type of game he needs. He will never be a go to guy for 35 min a night. He will be an instant offense guy for 15-20 min a night on a team with good defenders who can hide his defensive weaknesses.
 

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Originally posted by <b>genex</b>!


I dont think Fizer was ever really much of a trade possibility. He has everything going against him. He is a short, thick PF with little rebounding or defensive skills. He is lost outside of the painted area. We all know he was drafted after the Clips and magic did an endaround on the Sleuth regarding DMiles. We got stuck with a player Floyd but noone else really wanted in Chicago in the first place. He'll be gone soon enough. Pax wont pay a single cent for his services next year. May end up in New Orleans as a scoring back up with the slow walkitup the court Hornets. Thats the type of game he needs. He will never be a go to guy for 35 min a night. He will be an instant offense guy for 15-20 min a night on a team with good defenders who can hide his defensive weaknesses.
Very insightful. I think Floyd is going to press hard after Fizer, especially considering that they do need that type of player to give them that push off the bench (NO is scoring 92.2 ppg, good for 17th in the league).

The only problem is that they have David West, basically a Fizer-except-better, on their roster. They are kind of forced to develop him some, since they are committed to his rookie contract, so I don't expect Fizer to come on in NO with Brown, Magloire, Traylor, and West taking up the big spots.
 

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Fizer was the 4th pick of the 2000 draft. Curry was the 4th pick of the 2001 draft. I thought you were referring to Eddy, so haha, LOL, I think.

As for Marcus, I think that there's more he has to offer than what he's showing now. Remember that his knee is still not even 95%. And trying to walk his shoes, right now his mind would be racing trying to prove (yet again) something to his 3rd coach in 4 years. It's sort of frustrating when you work your arse off, you're penciled in as the back-up no matter what, and the new boss has yet to see what you can do.
 

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Lets remember what draft Fizer was taken in. If you compare him to the other top picks that year, hes hardly a bust. Stromile Swift was 2nd pick, Miles was 3rd, Mike Miller was 5th. The only guy whos considerably better than Fizer is Martin who was a no brainer at the first pick.

Looking at this in a positive way, we had the 4th and 7th pick that year, and ended up getting the 2nd best player in the draft IMO(JC), with potential to be better than Martin as well.

So we got lucky getting JC at 7, but unlucky that we had two top 7 picks in such a weak draft.

The Jaywill situation is hardly something to say is a bust. Its a set back for the franchise, but to say we should have traded him is hindsight at its finest. I'm aware alot of people wanted him to be traded before, but I have a feeling a lot of the people who didnt want to trade him are the ones saying we should have, after the accident happened.
 

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The draft was not what doomed us. We had an excellent draft in 00' by getting two future all-stars in Brand and Artest, yet we let them both get away. We were able to sign an all-star cailber center in Brad Miller and we let him get away as well.

Krause deserved to be fired for what he did the last couple of years. I can't believe that now he's landed a job with the Yankees.
 

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Originally posted by <b>DontBeCows</b>!
The draft was not what doomed us. We had an excellent draft in 00' by getting two future all-stars in Brand and Artest, yet we let them both get away. We were able to sign an all-star cailber center in Brad Miller and we let him get away as well.

Krause deserved to be fired for what he did the last couple of years. I can't believe that now he's landed a job with the Yankees.
I agree, Brand and Artest is an excellent two players to get out of one draft alone. That killed us more than anything else.
 

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Of those players, only Brand and Artest were foreseeable. Brad Miller was traded to get what we thought was quite a good player in Jalen Rose... it takes talent to get talent. Remember that the Jalen Rose of 2001 was not the Jalen Rose of 2004.

Brand we should have kept, there's almost no doubt about it. He's a beast. But I think Krause was scared of him becoming a Shareef; quality numbers and good player on a forever mediocre team. So he was daring and took a chance on a highly touted H.S. player who, to me, is going to end up being a pretty damn good defensive player. But Brand already was... but anyway. That's okay. Maybe when Tyson Chandler is in the third year of his extension, around 25 years old and in the ultimate prime of his game, and the Bulls are consistently on top of the East, we'll be glad that we have him instead of a serviceable and effective but aging Elton Brand, who would be nearing the end of his contract and hungry for yet another big extension. Maybe the timing will work out; it's a long shot, but it's possible. That's the advantage of having youth.

It's just hard to see Brand being 19/12 and 2.25 blocks these days.

Artest, like Miller, got better when he left. Ex-Bulls have a tendency to do that (see Hassell and Hoiberg, contributing to a decent Minnesota team).

The Bulls have a weird way of making not-so-great players seem really good but inhibiting the potential in really budding players. Jalen Rose and Ron Mercer were not spectacular players, but we somehow managed to get them 20+ ppg. Miller and Artest are legit All-Stars, among the top players in the league at their respective positions. Somehow, they were never the focus of our team.

Well, whatever. A lot of it was coaching, IMO. Now I can genuinely say, no excuses, because we've got good management and we've got good coaching... the onus is on the players now.
 

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Looking at this in a positive way, we had the 4th and 7th pick that year, and ended up getting the 2nd best player in the draft IMO(JC), with potential to be better than Martin as well.
Assuming K-Mart was the best player in that horrible draft, I'd still take Quentin Richardson, Micheal Redd, and probably Hedo Turkoglu before Jamal Crawford.
 

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So far I'd have to agree that Martin has accomplished more, but Q., Redd, JC & Turkey Glue have all been equally as streaky.

That draft was easily the worst draft in years. It set the NBA, let alone individual teams back 2 or 3 years.

Unfortunate for us as Bulls fans that it happened the year we picked 2 of the first 7.

Remember when Portland was willing to give us Jermaine O'Neal for those picks. Looking back you'd have to take that in hindsight.
 

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Bookmark this prediction, write it down on post-it note and stick it on your computer, write down on a calendar for Dec 2004, or just file in your memory banks, but I predict that Fizer will be a very powerful player for his next team. He'll will score down on the blocks, rebound, and even play respectable defense. He'll also even surprise people with a few deft passes.
 

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To be fair, that was one of the worst drafts in the history of the game.....Fizer's actually a decent player considering the others taken in that draft.
 

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Originally posted by <b>DontBeCows</b>!
The draft was not what doomed us. We had an excellent draft in 00' by getting two future all-stars in Brand and Artest, yet we let them both get away. We were able to sign an all-star cailber center in Brad Miller and we let him get away as well.

Krause deserved to be fired for what he did the last couple of years. I can't believe that now he's landed a job with the Yankees.
As a lifelong Yankee and Bulls fan, I respectfully disagree. Krauses how to find talented athletes. Lest I remind you that it was Krause who discovered Pippen, Phil Jackson, signed a washed-up headcase in Rodman, drafted Horace, Brand, Curry, Chandler, Artest, and traded for the rights to Crawford.

Krause knows how to find talent and knows how to build a championship team. The knock on Krause is that for him it's all or nothing. For Jerry, being runner up or just making the playoffs each season isn't good enough. Once you make win a championship and then win 5 more, it's hard to settle for just being competitive. Which is why Krause is such a good fit for the Yankees. The Yankees subscribe to the same theory. For Steinbrenner and the rest of Yankees organization, losing in the World Series is still losing.

Krause did what he could to return this team to prominence. He cut all of the big salaries when it was time to move on and put together a team of cheap rent-a-players and stockpiled money. Then he drafted a quality PF in Elton, but his efforts to woo a marque free agent were thrawted when his Airness publically denouced Krause (because Krause and Reinsdorf wouldn't give away ownership in and control of the Bulls. So each year, Krause saved money and tried to get a big named player only to fall short (because no one wanted to play for a rebuilding organization). He drafted young stars-in-the-making and still managed to secure lottery picks for the team. But each draft, the best the Bulls could do was to get the 2nd pick in a diluted draft class (so he drafted the most coveted college player in Jay Williams).
 

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Originally posted by <b>MichaelOFAZ</b>!
Krause knows how to find talent and knows how to build a championship team.
if he is spotted the greatest player ever.
;)

And I could beat Lance Armstong in a 30 mile bike race if I got spotted the first 25 miles. :laugh:
 

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hindsight is always 20/20 and it is a heck of a lot easier playing armchair GM than actually having to do it. Krause is respected by other GM's and scouts for his ability to find talented players and he did it plenty for the Bulls. I don't buy the argument that MJ could win with anyone around him otherwise Orlando Woolridge would have a championship ring.
 

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I'm willing to give Krause his due with the championship teams. He did some great things there.

However, he let his ego get in the way with the rebuilding effort, and totally stuffed it up. Continually adding youth was the worst thing to do.
 
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