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Didn't watch the Thunder game against the Warriors, but i was checking the box score and something stood out to me: Durant, Martin, Ibaka (heck, even Perkins) had great offensive games, stat-wise (all shot over or well over .550FG%).

Then i looked at Westbrook stats: .188FG%, 4 assists and 6 turnovers. In 35 minutes of play.
I know he is not your prototypical (sp?) pass-first PG, but whith his teammates firing in all cilinders why would he look for his own shot (wich was not falling) instead?

This season he is shooting a terrible .418FG%.

Westbrook is a good player, but if he is the best Durant has to play with, i don't think the Thunder can go all the way (i mean, if playing the Heat, Westbrook would be the 5th best guy on the floor...).

Do you guys think the Thunder have a realistic chance to the title with Westbrook as their second-best player and with the way the rest of the roster rounds up?
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Didn't watch the Thunder game against the Warriors, but i was checking the box score and something stood out to me: Durant, Martin, Ibaka (heck, even Perkins) had great offensive games, stat-wise (all shot over or well over .550FG%).

Then i looked at Westbrook stats: .188FG%, 4 assists and 6 turnovers. In 35 minutes of play.
I know he is not your prototypical (sp?) pass-first PG, but whith his teammates firing in all cilinders why would he look for his own shot (wich was not falling) instead?

This season he is shooting a terrible .418FG%.

Westbrook is a good player, but if he is the best Durant has to play with, i don't think the Thunder can go all the way (i mean, if playing the Heat, Westbrook would be the 5th best guy on the floor...).

Do you guys think the Thunder have a realistic chance to the title with Westbrook as their second-best player and with the way the rest of the roster rounds up?
I don't agree at all. Westbrook is a very solid #2 guy in this league. Would it be nice if he was a better, less erratic passer? Of course, but its not like the Thunder sit around setting up plays anyways so its not a huge problem for them.

As far as the Heat, Westbrook would be vying for 3rd best player on the floor with Wade in my opinion.


Anyways, yes, the Thunder can absolutely win it all with Russ as their #2 guy.
 

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I don't agree at all. Westbrook is a very solid #2 guy in this league. Would it be nice if he was a better, less erratic passer? Of course, but its not like the Thunder sit around setting up plays anyways so its not a huge problem for them.

As far as the Heat, Westbrook would be vying for 3rd best player on the floor with Wade in my opinion.


Anyways, yes, the Thunder can absolutely win it all with Russ as their #2 guy.
I think Westbrook is way more of a ballhog than your favorite so-called ballhog James Harden.
 

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Westbrook accounts for 40% of his team's assists - also he's actually below average for turnover per possession (in a good way)

and yes to the OP
 

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They've been winning with Westbrook since 2010.
 

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My comment about Harden vs. Westbrook aside, I definitely think the Thunder can win an NBA Championship with Westbrook as their second best player and second-leading scorer.
 

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Westbrook has 3 more assists per game and slightly less turnovers. Its not even close.
Have you seen these two teams play at all? Do you want to compare finishers/pass-catchers on these two rosters? Please.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Have you seen these two teams play at all? Do you want to compare finishers/pass-catchers on these two rosters? Please.
Nope. I've never seen the Rockets or Thunder play. I just post in multiple game threads and guess whats happening.


Again, Andre Miller led the league in assists with a low turnover rate with Lamond Murray as his best player. The reason Harden leads the league in turnovers is because he runs around with the ball in his hands until the clock is running out, then throws a panic pass since he's double teamed and can't find anyone.


Harden can have the worst teammates in NBA history, they're still good enough to catch a decent pass.
 

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Harden can have the worst teammates in NBA history, they're still good enough to catch a decent pass.
Omer Asik isn't.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Omer Asik isn't.
He's worse than the D level scrubs Andre Miller was passing to? No.

Out of the rest of the guys in the top 10 for turnovers, the only other players with a worse assist to turnover ratio are Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith.


Kevin Durant being there pretty much destroys your Westbrook argument by the way.
 

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Um, yes. Didn't they make the NBA Finals last year?
 

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He's worse than the D level scrubs Andre Miller was passing to? No.
Yes, absolutely. First of all, Miller averaged under 11 APG that year. That's a low total to lead the league with. Second, the leading minutes guys who played with Miller on that team (Murray, Wesley Person, Big Z, Jones, and Davis) all had SIGNIFICANTLY better hands than does Asik.

Out of the rest of the guys in the top 10 for turnovers, the only other players with a worse assist to turnover ratio are Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith.

Kevin Durant being there pretty much destroys your Westbrook argument by the way.
How so?
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Yes, absolutely. First of all, Miller averaged under 11 APG that year. That's a low total to lead the league with. Second, the leading minutes guys who played with Miller on that team (Murray, Wesley Person, Big Z, Jones, and Davis) all had SIGNIFICANTLY better hands than does Asik.


How so?
What?

2002 Andre Miller - 10.9 apg
2003 Jason Kidd - 8.9 apg
2004 Jason Kidd - 9.2 apg
2005 Steve Nash - 11.5 apg
2006 Steve Nash - 10.5 apg
2007 Steve Nash - 11.6 apg
2008 Chris Paul - 11.6 apg
2009 Chris Paul - 11 apg
2010 Steve Nash - 11 apg
2011 Steve Nash - 11.4 apg
2012 Rajon Rondo - 11.7 apg

So no, 10.9 to lead the league isn't low. If you do the math its actually just over the average in the period of time listed.


Second, are we blaming Asik for Hardens turnover issues? Really?

Well at least I'm glad you dropped trying to say Westbrook is more of a ballhog, because its clear that he isn't.
 

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Well at least I'm glad you dropped trying to say Westbrook is more of a ballhog, because its clear that he isn't.
I absolutely did not drop it. Did you notice the "how so?" in my post? I was asking you a question.
 

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I absolutely did not drop it. Did you notice the "how so?" in my post? I was asking you a question.
How so? Its pretty self explanatory.

You used Hardens turnover issues as a fault of the guys he had to pass to, and scoffed off Westbrooks high assist numbers (5th in the league) as him having good teammates to pass to.

Kevin Durant dismisses that statement two fold. First, he averages just .2 turnovers a game less than Westbrook, yet has an assist to turnover ratio of 1.33 to Russ's 2.33. So what's going on? I thought it was a team where its easy to rack up assists because of how great they are? Is Durant a bad passer?

No to mention if Durant is also on the top 10 in turnovers, and is also 6th in FG attempts per game, its pretty much impossible for Westbrook to dominate the ball the way Harden consistently does any time hes out on the floor.
 

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Assists is not a good measure of how good a passer someone is... much in the same way FG% is not a good measure of how efficient a scorer someone is... which is also similar to judging someone's ball-hoggy-ness by how many raw turnovers they average without looking at other factors. Are you really one of those guys completely married to primitive stats to make your points?
 

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The main thing I think the Thunder need to fix is the shot attempts between Westbrook and Durant. I believe Westbrook has the 2nd most FG attempts in the LEAGUE (behind Kobe). There's absolutely no reason he should be shooting more than Durant.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Assists is not a good measure of how good a passer someone is... much in the same way FG% is not a good measure of how efficient a scorer someone is... which is also similar to judging someone's ball-hoggy-ness by how many raw turnovers they average without looking at other factors. Are you really one of those guys completely married to primitive stats to make your points?
I'm a guy who's watched Harden play and hes so blatantly a ball hog it blows my mind that 2 or 3 posters on here try to explain that he's not.

I mention that he runs around with the ball until the clock winds down because hes double teamed or can't find a cut, then has to panic and try a bad pass or jack up a bad shot. You refuse to even talk about that even though you've seen it a ton as well unless its actually you who doesn't watch the Rockets.

Not to mention that if you are near the top of the league in shot attempts, and actually lead the league in turnovers, then yes, you control the ball, a ton. And that's not because of Omer Asik.


And yes, assists are a good indicator of how good a passer someone is. As is assist to turnover ratio.

James Harden is a gifted passer, but that is offset by the fact he dominates the ball and is forced to make quick, bad passes because of that.



Russell Westbrook does not dominate the ball more than Harden. A fact that should be abundantly clear since he plays with the leading scorer in the league. But yet again we have another situation where someone refuses to admit being wrong.
 

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The main thing I think the Thunder need to fix is the shot attempts between Westbrook and Durant. I believe Westbrook has the 2nd most FG attempts in the LEAGUE (behind Kobe). There's absolutely no reason he should be shooting more than Durant.
I think you could argue that at least a couple of westbrook's attempts per game could go to Ibaka
 
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