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Im watching the Sonics game.. and for what the 12 game in a row now he has been extremly aggressive when driving to the hole. We all wanted odom to do that, but the second Odom gets into trouble he has a tendancy to kick it out.. Caron instead is going all the way until finish, I am watching the 3 quater in a row and he has like already drawn 3 fouls wen going to the hole.. And when he isnt fouled he is making it..

I'm an odom fan... But I dont know.... At this point I'm thinking Caron is doing just fine in this role and Odom could be used as trade bait to get a much bigger fish....
 

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Butler has played well but please not lets forget the month and a half he disappeared.

Odom should be kept Butler should be gone
 

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We have to keep Butler, he has not even reached his potential yet. He will be capable of putting up between 16ppg and 20ppg and he is also IMO one of the more UNDERATED defenders in the NBA, we all know we can get a much better player for Odom then we can for Butler, and he and Kobe do get along quite well, Keep Butler, i dunno our management at times have the Basketball IQ of Loren woods, but who knows, maybe they will learn a lesson this summer and DO SOMETHING GOOD!
 

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jazzy1 said:
Butler has played well but please not lets forget the month and a half he disappeared.

Odom should be kept Butler should be gone
Lets not forget about Odom's season long absence either. At least Butler has fulfilled expectations for some part of the season. Odom has been a huge disappointment as far as I'm concerned. While I'm not sky high on Butler, at least the kid gives a damn. Odom has a great game every now and then and surrounds it with several spotty games in between. He's a guy that puts up a double-double and no one notices it because he does it in such as quiet fashion. I'm not a Butler fan but Odom should not get a free pass here. He was supposed to be the key to the Shaq trade and he's been the biggest disappointment of the three players we've acquired (didn't expect much from Grant).
 

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Odom needs to go regardless of what Butler's doing. He had the whole year, even time with Kobe out on the IR and he never took his game the next level. It's one thing be unselfish, to make the extra pass on the perimeter or to give up the rock on a fast break, but its another thing to pass up open shots and constantly defer when you have a favorable matchup. He doesn't seem to have the drive in him to push himself and be aggressive when the team needs it from him.
 

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I actually think that keeping Caron Butler over Lamar Odom is the most logical option, for all of the following reasons.

- Caron and Kobe are major pals now and you can tell that their games are really starting to click and chemistry is building.

- Caron seems to always play with energy and has a huge work ethic. I expect him to work very hard in the offseason to improve his game.

- Caron costs less money.

-Caron seems to have a strong mindset and it seems like Lamar's mindset is sometimes too soft

- It seems like the main reason we are more high on Odom is that he is so versatile, and that he can play the point guard role of the team very well. Well, we are in the lottery, and we have a 1st round and 2nd round pick in the NBA draft (i think). Well, if we get a solid point guard (which we should since this is a PG draft and we have moved up in the lottery with our losses), a versatile, point guard role player wouldn't be so important because if we had a great PG Caron would be able to get more and better touches, an dthe PG would be doing most of the handling.

My 2 cents. ;)
 

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Man 3 month's ago this conversation would have been laughable.

I quite frankly I still think its laughable.

I agree with all the criticism's of Odom.

BUT you gotta give the man CREDIT WHY because he was forced to play every night at a match-up disadvantage against players who were much bigger and stronger than he was. And he still managed to be a top 5-10 rebounder in the league. He almost got 11 boards per game.

I think thats partly why his scoring and aggression might have been curtailed getting worn down against the Bigger guys.

He deserves props for that. He stuck his nose in there when no one else would Mihm 7ft and 260 wouldn't couldn't get that many rebounds.

At the 3 spot I think Odom could be a total match-up mismatch and he'd score 3-5 more ppg and be more of a playmaker.

To me he's had a much better year than Butler has and he's a much better player. Odom hasn't disappointed me as much as some of you because I knew he would struggle against the 4's in the West.

I wanna see him at 3 I think he'd be tough.

I just don't trust Butler's defense at all, I think he loses confidence far too easy and his lateral movement is distrubing to me at times how slow he appears to move. His jumpr is also very suspect.

I think Odom would be a solid defender at 3 .

Odom has more value but he has more talent. If we got a post option and a pg I think the game would be easier for Kobe and odom.

I go back and forth with this but I think Odom is still too good to trade with the idea of keeping Butler.
 

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It's a shame we never got to see Odom play at the 3 this year. Since we're in "garbage time" as far as the season goes we should be using this time to experiment with a few things. Sasha at the 1, Odom at the 3, see if Luke can initiate from the high post the way Vlade can, anything. But instead we've still got Tierre Brown running point and Odom on the IR.
 

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Yea caron is playing great right now. If we can trade odom for a banger or a solid PG im all for it. But on the other hand we didnt see odom at the 3.
 

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I completely agree about trading Odom. The guy is our best trade asset and we don't really need what he brings to the table at any position, SF or PF. Then when he actually brings the game it could be anyday or no day. With those things in mind, Odom should go.


Kobe and Caron like each other no doubt. Mihm is liked. Luke WAlton is liked. Odom doesn't fit on this team.

Another poster put it best...Sir patchwork.

He said Odom likes to have the ball in his hands. But the problem is, he isn't good enough to be the first option. His versatility sucks because he only plays good when he has the ball. Odom is really only good for acting as a point forward and if he isn't utilized this way he's worthless as tits on a warthog.
 

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compsciguy78 said:
I completely agree about trading Odom. The guy is our best trade asset and we don't really need what he brings to the table at any position, SF or PF. Then when he actually brings the game it could be anyday or no day. With those things in mind, Odom should go.


Kobe and Caron like each other no doubt. Mihm is liked. Luke WAlton is liked. Odom doesn't fit on this team.

Another poster put it best...Sir patchwork.

He said Odom likes to have the ball in his hands. But the problem is, he isn't good enough to be the first option. His versatility sucks because he only plays good when he has the ball. Odom is really only good for acting as a point forward and if he isn't utilized this way he's worthless as tits on a warthog.
I especially agree with your last point. I like and will always like Odom. It's too bad that Odom needs the ball in his hands in order to effective on the offensive end. We have to trade him, and we need someone who can take over for his 10 boards per game.
 

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im really twisted up on this one...

Caron has so much offenive promise and has shown real good signs lately...

then again, Odam who showed not much has more promise and never played his position which makes this decision that much difficult... if Odom plays to his potential at the 3 he brings so much to the table...
 

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Obviously Caron and Kobe have developed chemistry. But is that good enough? I'm just not sold on the idea of these two slashers playing successfully together with other key pieces that we have to add over the offseason. I still like the idea of having a quality facilitator with Kobe as the main scorer. Odom fits this bill, but apparently lacks the competitive desire.
 

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I've read enough of these posts that I now have to speak up.

I am shocked that it's not being pointed out that the Lakers are like 2-14 since Caron went on his scoring binge. An even worse record than what Odom and Caron led the Lakers to when Kobe was out. I'm watching game after game of Caron going to the basket at will, but on the defensive end the power forward combination of George, Jones and Walton are staring at the rim while their men get offensive boards.

No I'm not blaming Caron for the pitiful performance of the team, it's just that Odom's value to the team is strongly undervalued here. Sure, he often doesn't realize that the man guarding him has no chance. Yes, he stands around and doesn't mind letting others score. But we've asked for him to carry the team all season long on the defensive glass and now that he's gone we are giving up 110 all the damn time. Lamar is EXACTLY the dynamic versatile second option that every championship team needs. I really think that all we need is Phil to tap into his offensive potential... and for that reason I really don't want to trade him. Players like Caron on the other hand, are a lot less rare.
 

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In the last 16 games, these are Caron's numbers:

PPG-20.4
RPG-7.3
FG%-46.2%
Asts-2.6
Stls-2.2
TOs-1.5

He's really helping his trade value with his recent play. I'm starting to believe that we can get close to as much for Butler as we can for Odom. They are basically the same age and play the same position. While Odom has more natural talent, Butler is cheaper and can probably be locked up for alot less than Lamar. There will be a market for Butler this offseason. I just hope Mitch finds the right deal for him.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Pinball said:
In the last 16 games, these are Caron's numbers:

PPG-20.4
RPG-7.3
FG%-46.2%
Asts-2.6
Stls-2.2
TOs-1.5

He's really helping his trade value with his recent play. I'm starting to believe that we can get close to as much for Butler as we can for Odom. They are basically the same age and play the same position. While Odom has more natural talent, Butler is cheaper and can probably be locked up for alot less than Lamar. There will be a market for Butler this offseason. I just hope Mitch finds the right deal for him.

Alot can be said for Chemestry. Odom and Kobe havent played together all season like Caron and Kobe have the last 16 games. Im not sure i'd deal him.
 
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