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http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=9173095


Looks like role player for role player to me


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Seriously, what are sports coming to when a mediocre player like Lamond Murray can demand a trade? I know it must be bad to play in Cleveland, but still, does he think he'd get more playing time on a good team? Guys have really got to stop crying so much and wake up and act like men and realize that most people don't have nearly as good.
 

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Wow, great trade for Sacramento. I'll be pretty surprised if Mateen Cleaves isn't one of the 2-3 worst starting PGs in the league next year. Does this mean that Cleveland has given up on signing Rod Strickland? Surely! What was Strickland thinking, demanding a two-year contract? Does this mean that Strickland will end up in... BOSTON? That's pretty much his last shot at a starting job next season--what do you think about THAT, Celtics fans? Adding perhaps the two biggest losers in the league, Vin Baker and Rod Strickland, in the same offseason?

Will Jumaine Jones even PLAY for Sacramento? Is he the best tenth man in the history of the NBA?
 

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It was Jumaine Jones not Lamond Murray, but that doesn't matter..anyway-the Cavs got ripped off big time...but the Kings can't play all 4 of their sf's anyway..
 

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Does this mean that Cleaves will start? IF he does this may be the worst team in NBA history.
 

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Jones is actualy a pretty good player, but he will make almost 0 impact on the Kings. Unless they are stockpilling for the worst case scenario, Webber going to jail (wont happen by the way). Cleaves on the other hand will have a substantial impact on the Cavs. You need to remember this will only be his 3rd year in the L and hes never realy got a chance to have minutes. This is the perfect scenario for him. I would deffinatley put this guy as your 3rd string guard if you do anything like ESPN fantasy basketball. His stats will go way up. Im not saying he will be great, but I can see him getting most improved player.
 

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Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
Does this mean that Strickland will end up in... BOSTON?
He signed with the Pacers a while ago, I think.

-Petey
 

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Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
He signed with the Pacers a while ago, I think.

-Petey
I was talking about ROD Strickland, not ERICK Strickland. Although I can understand the confusion, since ERICK Strickland DID play for Boston last year. ERICK Strickland DID sign with Indiana last week. ROD Strickland was rumored to be headed to Cleveland, but his demands for a two-year contract obviously led to the Cavs saying "To hell with you" and making this move for Mateen Cleaves. So ROD Strickland is left hanging now, and so are the Celtics, who swung and missed on any number of free agent PGs this offseason. Which is why I think we might see ROD Strickland--perhaps the biggest loser in recent NBA history--sign with the Celtics pretty soon. Although the Cavs are still awfully weak at PG, with only Cleaves and Bimbo Coles, so maybe ROD Strickland will end up signing a one-year deal with Cleveland AFTER ALL, who knows.

One thing is for sure--the Cavs will be the WORST team in the LEAGUE next season.

And thanks, R-Star--I typed Lamond Murray instead of Jumaine Jones in that previous post, it was a mistake.
 

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No problem Roby, I've done the same before. I dont know about the Cavs being the worst though. Worst in the East? Probably, but not worse than the Nuggets. I know I will get a few kicks to my head for saying this, but whats wrong with the Cavs lineup right now? It could turn out to be a force in the East in 3 or 4 years if they found a good center. Or maybe they could pick one up in the draft. Because they will be lottery for at least 2-3 years. This lineup could improve by leaps and bounds every season

PG-Cleaves
SG-Waggner
SF-Davis
PF-Miles
C- ???

If they could swing a trade of something like Murray and Hill or Z for a good center, and no Diop is not going to be very good cavs fans.
Then on top of that they will probably get James or Anthony to come into the lineup. Could be a good team down the road.

And Im a man of my word, Roby heres my apology. I said theres no way Miles will start at the 4, but now that Ricky Davis is signed I can't see either comming off the bench so you were right, and of course I was wrong. So for anyone counting, thats Roby 1 - RStar 0. Hopefully I will get you back with my predictions on the Pacers though.
 

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I think that it was a good trade for the kings but i have one question: why? Jones wont get any minutes. It was a dumb trade on the Cavs side, Jones was one of the few players they had that could contribute. Cleaves is slow, a bad shooter, bad penetrator, he really cant do much of anything at the NBA level. He was a bad pick by the pistons, and I sorely pity the cavs if they start him. Well, even more than i did before. They look like theyre gonna be the bengals of the NBA.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
Cleaves just needs a chance, he could start in time. Good trade Cavs!

I think Cleaves still has the skills to be productive and finally bust out of his
" Cheerleader, looking foolish on the sidelines " type of status. He just needs the PT now..
Who know's, this might be a good trade for the Cavs.
As for the Kings....Jones can't help but wonder??
When can I come in coach??
 

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Better trade for Clev

First, the Cavs needed a point.... SOMEBODY. ANYBODY. They have nobody to distribute, and asking or thinking that Wagner as a rookie would be able to play point is foolish. Cleeves has the college background of being a heady floor leader. Who cares if he doesn't shoot Bibby-like, or drives to the hoop Baron Davis-like.... Cleveland will have enough gunners and drivers they don't need big points from their point. They need someone who can bring the ball up, call plays, and play a bit of defense. Cleeves is also very young, and has some of the NBA growing pains out of the way. Great opportunity for Cleeves. Virtually no downside for Clev.

As for Jumaine Jones... I like him off the bench. That is it. He is not gonna be a starter... not for Clev, not for anybody else. He is a high energy sub who can do a few good things for a limited amount of time. Watching most of the Cavs games, I saw him as much as anyone, and he is a good sub... but not a starter. He is not gonna be a PF, so his only spot is SF. Darius Miles, Ricky Davis, Lamond Murray can all play SF better then Jumaine. He has no chance at any big minutes for Clev. Unfortunately for Jumaine, he won't get a lot of minutes in Sac-town either. He works very hard, and is a good team-mate, but he is not starter material unless injuries force a team to use him there.

So, not sure why Sac did the trade.... definately can see Clev working here. And if Cleeves washes out... so what. Jones's spot was full, and the season is gonna be one of small increments of growth anyway... good spot for Cleeves, good trade for Clev.:)
 

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Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
And Im a man of my word, Roby heres my apology. I said theres no way Miles will start at the 4, but now that Ricky Davis is signed I can't see either comming off the bench so you were right, and of course I was wrong. So for anyone counting, thats Roby 1 - RStar 0. Hopefully I will get you back with my predictions on the Pacers though.
Thanks for the acknowledgement, R-Star. I'm pretty sure that, of all the people around here who called me an idiot a month or so ago for predicting that Darius Miles would start at PF instead of SF, YOU'RE the ONLY ONE who is going to give me my props! So thanks! I'm also pretty sure that the score isn't 1-0; I'm pretty sure you're up on me, but who's counting? Not me!

The Nuggets are the ONLY team in the league who have a shot at being as bad or worse than the Cavs next year. I don't think Mateen Cleaves is a longterm solution, either, he's a quick fix. The Cavs weren't going to re-sign Jumaine Jones next summer, the team was looking at Bimbo Coles as their starting PG, and trading Jones takes care of their glut at forward. Cleaves will be given an opportunity to prove he belongs in the NBA, but I don't think the Cavs are going to be very surprised if/when he proves that he DOESN'T belong in the NBA, you know what I'm saying?

In other words, the Cavs didn't want Jones taking PT away from guys like Ricky Davis and Miles, and the Cavs didn't want to start the season with Bimbo Coles as their starting PG. Nor did the Cavs want to give Rod Strickland anything more than a one-year veteran's minimum contract. So, while Jumaine Jones is a significantly better player than Mateen Cleaves, the deal makes sense for Cleveland based on their team strengths (forward depth) and weaknesses (point guard depth).

And don't forget that the Cavs are in Big Ten country, and that trading for a former Big Ten STAR like Mateen Cleaves, the leader of that Spartans championship team from a few years back, probably will sell a few season tickets, believe it or not. Certainly fans in Big Ten country are more willing to pay to see Mateen Cleaves play than to see JUMAINE JONES play, you know what I'm saying?

Here are Cleaves' stats from a year ago, just so you know:

25 years old (born in September 1977)
32 games played (0 starts)
4.8 minutes/game
44.1 FG%
25.0 3Pt%
88.9 FT%
2.2 points/game
0.22 steals/game
0.8 assists/game
0.8 turnovers/game
0.2 rebounds/game

And here are Bimbo Coles' stats from a year ago:

34 years old (born in April 1968, so he turns 35 next season)
47 games played (1 start)
14.7 minutes/game
38.4 FG%
20.0 3Pt%
89.2 FT%
3.2 points/game
0.28 steals/game
2.3 assists/game
0.7 turnovers/game
1.2 rebounds/game

Both guys are pretty terrible, but Cleaves appears to be a better starting PG alternative for this young Cavs team to me.
 

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Cleaves is ok, but I would rather have Dajuan play PG over Cleaves. Dajuan is quicker and way more athletic that Cleaves as is just as good if not a better passer. Cleaves is a good heady player but he is not to quick, and his jump shot sucks. I don't like the lineup Cleaves/Wagner/Davis/Miles, I don't know about you guys. And lossing Jurmaine is a huge loss, but it had to be done because they were almost to athletic. But the King GM is doing a great job at getting backups, Jackson for Bibby, Wallace for Christie, and now Jones for Peja, great job on there part and they really don't give up a thing lossing Cleaves.

I think it was a bad move for Cleveland, unless they are using him as a backup and starting Dajuan, because Cleaves is not a starter at all. Probably clearing up cap room maybe also.
 

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No doubt Wagner will see some time at both guard positions, but both John Lucas and Jim Paxson want Wagner to play most of his minutes at SG for this team, since he's not a PG. Cleaves may not seem like starter material, but neither does Bimbo Coles!

I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as a team being "too athletic," by the way!
 

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I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as a team being "too athletic," by the way!
Actually that can happen, and by athletic I mean slashers that go to the hoop because that is what most athletic players try to do, attack the hoop. And if your whole team is doing that I would call that a problem, you have to have shooters not all drives.

I totally agree with you, the most athletic players in basketball are most of the time the best players, but there is a limit, you can't have all high flyers on your team, that is why the Clippers got rid of Miles and brought in Miller etc.

You have to have roles on a basketball team, and every player can't be that "slasher" type role, if it was like that the team would be in trouble.

Thus Cleveland
Dajuan-athletic drives the lane
Davis- athletic drives...
Jones- athletic drives...
Miles- athletic drives...

That might be fun to watch but also might cause some problems, to many players looking to create and not enough looking to do the small things. Were the Lakers the most athletic team in the NBA, no.

I totally agree, athletic ability is the building block in basketball but there has to be a limit.
 

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Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!


Thanks for the acknowledgement, R-Star. I'm pretty sure that, of all the people around here who called me an idiot a month or so ago for predicting that Darius Miles would start at PF instead of SF, YOU'RE the ONLY ONE who is going to give me my props! So thanks! I'm also pretty sure that the score isn't 1-0; I'm pretty sure you're up on me, but who's counting? Not me!

The Nuggets are the ONLY team in the league who have a shot at being as bad or worse than the Cavs next year. I don't think Mateen Cleaves is a longterm solution, either, he's a quick fix. The Cavs weren't going to re-sign Jumaine Jones next summer, the team was looking at Bimbo Coles as their starting PG, and trading Jones takes care of their glut at forward. Cleaves will be given an opportunity to prove he belongs in the NBA, but I don't think the Cavs are going to be very surprised if/when he proves that he DOESN'T belong in the NBA, you know what I'm saying?

In other words, the Cavs didn't want Jones taking PT away from guys like Ricky Davis and Miles, and the Cavs didn't want to start the season with Bimbo Coles as their starting PG. Nor did the Cavs want to give Rod Strickland anything more than a one-year veteran's minimum contract. So, while Jumaine Jones is a significantly better player than Mateen Cleaves, the deal makes sense for Cleveland based on their team strengths (forward depth) and weaknesses (point guard depth).

And don't forget that the Cavs are in Big Ten country, and that trading for a former Big Ten STAR like Mateen Cleaves, the leader of that Spartans championship team from a few years back, probably will sell a few season tickets, believe it or not. Certainly fans in Big Ten country are more willing to pay to see Mateen Cleaves play than to see JUMAINE JONES play, you know what I'm saying?

Here are Cleaves' stats from a year ago, just so you know:

25 years old (born in September 1977)
32 games played (0 starts)
4.8 minutes/game
44.1 FG%
25.0 3Pt%
88.9 FT%
2.2 points/game
0.22 steals/game
0.8 assists/game
0.8 turnovers/game
0.2 rebounds/game

And here are Bimbo Coles' stats from a year ago:

34 years old (born in April 1968, so he turns 35 next season)
47 games played (1 start)
14.7 minutes/game
38.4 FG%
20.0 3Pt%
89.2 FT%
3.2 points/game
0.28 steals/game
2.3 assists/game
0.7 turnovers/game
1.2 rebounds/game

Both guys are pretty terrible, but Cleaves appears to be a better starting PG alternative for this young Cavs team to me.
How can you call anyone who only recieves 4.8 minutes of playing time a game terrible by looking at his stats? Th eonyl stat that is revealing is the 4.8 minutes per game? What kind of stats do you want from Mateen during those 4.8 minutes? Alot of those 4.8 minutes are probably during unimportannt and unstructured garbage time. Give the kid a break and lets judge him after he gets a chance to shine finally with Cleveland.
 

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Jumain Jones and Devean George are the same player both got hops no awareness and no dribble drive ability, good move for the kings though if they have an injury to Peja he can come in and give Turkoglu a blow, Cleaves oh well.
 
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