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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bsep04.html

The latest version of the deal has Marcus Fizer headed to Los Angeles for point guard Keyon Dooling and a salary throw-in, probably Melvin Ely.

The extra player might be one of two Chicago products. Former Thornton star Ely and former Simeon standout Bobby Simmons both have contracts that would fit with Dooling's.

But the Bulls are loaded at power forward and would be more interested in Simmons, who is a 6-6 small forward, a position of need for the Bulls. But Simmons' deal expires after this season, making him more valuable to the Clippers.
 

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Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bsep04.html

The latest version of the deal has Marcus Fizer headed to Los Angeles for point guard Keyon Dooling and a salary throw-in, probably Melvin Ely.

The extra player might be one of two Chicago products. Former Thornton star Ely and former Simeon standout Bobby Simmons both have contracts that would fit with Dooling's.

But the Bulls are loaded at power forward and would be more interested in Simmons, who is a 6-6 small forward, a position of need for the Bulls. But Simmons' deal expires after this season, making him more valuable to the Clippers.
And there is a need to do this deal because???



Just let the Fize walk and let the Clippers keep their crap


Ely and Jaric or they can [edit] off
 

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Fact is .. is that there is absolutely no reason to do this deal

Jaric has some savvy and can play .. Ely a raw project still

Let's not a forget ist a deal the Clips would want to do and not a deal we are compelled to do

I have been ( and am ) a Pax supporter and am prepared to give him time.. but if he makes this deal .. I will seriously have to consider his capacity for stewardship
 

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If nothing else Dooling gives us someone better than Brunson to spell Kirk out there. I am dissappointed though. I was really hoping for Jaric in a Clippers deal. I guess they asked for JC in that case and we declined unless they offered QRich which the Clips declined. Lets hope this is not the only deal we do at the deadline.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Maybe this is Clippers counter-offer? If it is, no deal.

I would love to get someone for Fizer, but it would be ok just to let him walk at the end of the season. Pax needs to hold out and see how serious LAC are in clearing room for Kobe. Ely is a wash, but Jaric is a have to thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
If nothing else Dooling gives us someone better than Brunson to spell Kirk out there. I am dissappointed though. I was really hoping for Jaric in a Clippers deal. I guess they asked for JC in that case and we declined unless they offered QRich which the Clips declined. Lets hope this is not the only deal we do at the deadline.
Are you sure Dooling is better than Brunson? Rick shoots 43%. I am not so sure he is any better! He might be worse.
 

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Yeah he is better, can't believe I even have to justify that comment.
 

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Well, I may be the only one who feels this way about Brunson. He has his faults, but he plays 10 minutes a game and is a hell of a lot more productive than Dooling! He averages 5 minutes less than Dooling does. Rick shoots a lot better, mores assists in 1/3 less time. Better stats all the way across. And many times Rick is in the game during important moments and not in garbage time.

If we are not satisfied with Rick and that seems to be the majority, I am afraid having dooling here will cause much more of an uproar!

I may stand alone on that point. But I do feel that way.
 

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if dooling does become a bull i can see the Dooling v Brunson threads popping up lol

Pax said that shooting guard and SF will be a key postions he addresses this offseason. (thanks for the quote benny the bull) Maybe Pax wants to bring in another PG because jamal is on his way out and wants to have some options othe rthen just brunson at the point. Quick note, dabull7 @ realgm said that there will be big news regarding JC coming soon...might be just a new tattoo but who knows.
 

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Dooling would be acquired to back up Kirk this season, plain and simple. And yes Dooling is better than Brunson IMO. Clippers fans and those that have seen him can testify to that. Unfortunately he's been hurt alot. I like Simmons, he would start for us at the 3 right away.

Not sure why the Clippers do this. It doesn't free up any salary. They could just cut bait on Dooling and Simmons and it'd be the same as doing so for Fizer.

I don't want Ely. I'd rather pick up to TO on Corey Blount thank you very much.
 

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Paxson suggesting that they are targeting the sf & sg positions in the draft could be very sigmificant. It could mean that Paxson is going to be moving Crawford and knows we will need a new sg. It could mean Pax is uncertain of JC's ability to be the full time sg (which is understandable) or, it could mean that Pax wants to get a solid prototypical sg to play behind JC. Also, sf is clearly a need. But, is Pax pursuing a starting sf in the draft? Or is he just looking for a backup for someone he already plans on trading for? Jamal just hired Leon Rose as his agent and that could have some significance too.

This trade is a stinker, Dooling and Simmons are barely ON an NBA team and I don't see how either one helps the Bulls. If the Clips don't want to give up Jaric, why do the Bulls make this deal? Whats the point? Let LA keep it's cap problems.
 

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Incidentally, Dooling is NOT better than Brunson. He does have more potential though.
 

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As others have said, this trade really makes no sense.

Ely, like it or not, has to be a part of the deal because he has 3 years remaining on his contract. The sole reason to do the deal is to move someone with multiple years remaining to clear the cap space to enter the Kobe sweepstakes.

5 years remaining: Elton Brand, Corey Maggette
4 years remaining: Chris Kaman
3 years remaining: Melvin Ely, Predrag Drobnjak, Chris Wilcox
1 year remaining: Keyon Dooling, Marko Jaric, Quentin Richardson, Eddie House
Expiring: Olden Polynice, Bobby Simmons, Doug Overton, Josh Moore, Mart Barnes
Rights: Sofoklis Schortsanitis

Looking at the Clippers roster, they have to include Wilcox or Ely in on any deal in order to lighten their load. Technically, they don't have to, but it will help down the road and they are looking to stay flexible and competitive (I can't believe I just said that about the Clippers).

In my opinion, Paxson needs to stick to his guys and get exactly what he wants if we are to deal with the Clippers. They are the team looking for the flexibility and we are one of the teams that can provide it... if they are willing to pay for it.

Personally, I would really love to do a deal involving Q, but I just don't see them parting with him unless Kobe was already signed, sealed and delivered.
 

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SD brings up a good point. There is no reason Clips do it unless Ely is involved and not Simmons. Both Dooling and Ely come off the books after this year the same way Fizer potentially would. So unless it is Dooling and Ely what is the point for the Clippers?
 

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I'm not sure why so many people have this fascination that Rick Brunson is a horrible backup PG for this team. Considering how little he plays, he's very productive. I definitely think Dooling as the backup PG would be a downgrade. I shouldn't have to justify that statement because the numbers do.

This trade does nothing for us except exchanging crap for crap. I agree with FJ...there is really no reason to do this deal.
 

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Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
I'm not sure why so many people have this fascination that Rick Brunson is a horrible backup PG for this team. Considering how little he plays, he's very productive. I definitely think Dooling as the backup PG would be a downgrade. I shouldn't have to justify that statement because the numbers do.

This trade does nothing for us except exchanging crap for crap. I agree with FJ...there is really no reason to do this deal.
Brunson's productive for how much he plays, but that's because he doesn't play much. He could well be the best 3rd string PG in the league. However, we need a 2nd string PG, or a 2nd string SG that will allow us to shift Jamal over for some periods into the 2nd string PG duties.

That being said, I don't see how Keyon Dooling is that guy, except that he's probably markedly quicker than Brunson. I can't remember seeing much of him though, and the Clippers haven't liked what they've seen, obviously.

==========

A better question though, is if nothing else comes along, why not do Fizer for Ely straight up. Fizer is obviously not coming back, so why not cash him in for something rather than just letting him walk for nothing. Even if Ely is not a great prospect at this point, he would seem a better prospect than no prospect at all.
 

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[fantasy on]

Okay, I normally don't get involved in trades, but, if the Clippers are serious about making a run at Kobe Bryant or any of the top tier free agents, how about this?

Los Angeles receives:
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 17.9 minutes)
PF Marcus Fizer (6.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 13.8 minutes)

Chicago receives:
PF Predrag Drobnjak (6.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 13.8 minutes)
SG Quentin Richardson (17.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.6 minutes)
PF Melvin Ely (4.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.1 minutes)

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

You have been assigned Trade ID number 1466871

---------------------------------------------

Pippen came back to the Bulls for a chance to work in the front office after his career has ended. What better chance for Scottie to make an impact then to let us use his salary to acquire what I consider to be one of the top SG prospects in all of ball. The Clippers receive Pippen and Fizer's deals and officially enter themselves in the Kobe hunt, and still have a damn good core to boot. I would even be willing to throw in cash or a future 2nd rounder if that would send the Clippers over the top.

We literally eat Ely and Drobnjak's contracts to acquire the prize, Mr. Richardson. They both have 3 years remaining on decent deals and they could be used to solidify the bench roles that Corie Blount and JYD currently have, allowing us to deal JYD back to Toronto or somewhere else and let Blount walk.

[/fantasy off]
 

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Ok so you are willing to take a flyer on Ely, a guy whos contract has 3 years left than to take a flyer on a backup PG who we can let walk at years end if it does not work out well? Explain that to me. We let a solid backup for Hinrich, the kid is getting burned out. Why not see if Dooling can handle the role? If he can't then show him the door at years end.
 
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