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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/01/30/bulls.growing.pains.ap/index.html



"The expectations, they're hard but that's the price you pay when you want to jump straight from high school," said Toronto Raptors forward Donyell Marshall, who played with Chandler and Curry before the Bulls traded him in November.

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"There's no question not going to college hurts," said Bulls general manager John Paxson, who didn't draft Chandler or Curry. "It's really the environment. I've been able to see several college practices this year and you say to yourself, 'There's something demanded of them. There's discipline.'

"There's just a structure that, as professionals, you can't totally give them."

Just felt these two quotes were very appropriate. For all the talk about too much pressure being placed on the kids - then they should've gone to college.
 

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Yeah I am really looking forward to the day when the NBA establish an age limit. The league needs it bad.
 

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I think people bring up not going to college as an excuse way too often. KG, Kobe and T-Mac were all light years ahead of Tyson/Eddy as far as their development by their third season and were all mega-superstars by their fourth. So, coming straight from highschool didn't seem like that big of a deal to them.

I think part of the reason Tyson/Eddy seem behind is both of them have been trying to develop at the same time. Two such-highly touted highschoolers have never had to do that. BUT, I think a bigger reason they're not on the same pace as those other guys is they simply just aren't as good as everybody thought they were. In fact, I think it's realistic to think neither will ever become a superstar.

Using the highschool excuse still almost seems to be some form of denial at this point.
 

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Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
I think people bring up not going to college as an excuse way too often. KG, Kobe and T-Mac were all light years ahead of Tyson/Eddy as far as their development by their third season and were all mega-superstars by their fourth. So, coming straight from highschool didn't seem like that big of a deal to them.

I think part of the reason Tyson/Eddy seem behind is both of them have been trying to develop at the same time. Two such-highly touted highschoolers have never had to do that. BUT, I think a bigger reason they're not on the same pace as those other guys is they simply just aren't as good as everybody thought they were. In fact, I think it's realistic to think neither will ever become a superstar.

Using the highschool excuse still almost seems to be some form of denial at this point.
5 star post my friend. Kudos
 

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Players develop at different speeds. The three C's will be just fine given time.
 

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I wonder if it occured to Paxson to note what was successfull in the college enviroment in player development and then to start it here?

Instead of moaning about how they should have gone to college how about someone try and actually develop some of the talent on this team just once? Outside of Scottie Pippen, has anybody actually gotten better by being drafted by the Bulls in the entire Krause-Paxson tenure?

The answer is no. We've been the franchise where rookies go to die for a long time. BJ Armstrong, Stacy King, Dickey Simpkins...Corie Blount only got better because he left the bulls finally.

Something needs to be changed with how the organization deals with young talent.

And I agree though, the Highschool excuse has been proven wrong more often than it has proven right.

The guys that are ready, are ready. The one's that aren't, aren't. It's not too diffrent from college early entry guys. I don't think Jamal's 17 games of college made him more prepared for the NBA than if he had come right out of high school.

But at any rate, I think the age limit would be retarded in light of guys like Amare, Lebron, and KG. Who were ready right out of the box. Lebron going to college wouldn't have helped him. It would have helped the pocket book of those fat cats who run the NCAA. And then after they made their money off him they would put whatever school he went to on probation and move on to the next cash cow.

People say Darius Miles should have gone to school. But I doubt he would have developed a jump shot any quicker in college. And he still would have been drafted in the same slot.

BAH!:upset:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
I think people bring up not going to college as an excuse way too often. KG, Kobe and T-Mac were all light years ahead of Tyson/Eddy as far as their development by their third season and were all mega-superstars by their fourth. So, coming straight from highschool didn't seem like that big of a deal to them.
From the article:

But when? While Kevin Garnett made the transition from preps to the pros with relative ease and LeBron James makes the leap seem like child's play this year, they are the exceptions. Most players who've gone from high school to the NBA have struggled early on, children in a man's game.
A reason why the college issue is constantly brought up is because it is the issue. KG, LeBron, Amare, Kobe, and TMac were clearly exceptions. Of course, I contend that if you can't stand the heat, then get the f*** out of the kitchen. Tyson and Eddy, and to a lesser extent Jamal, should have gone/stayed in college. The NBA is no place to learn from ground zero.

I think part of the reason Tyson/Eddy seem behind is both of them have been trying to develop at the same time. Two such-highly touted highschoolers have never had to do that. BUT, I think a bigger reason they're not on the same pace as those other guys is they simply just aren't as good as everybody thought they were. In fact, I think it's realistic to think neither will ever become a superstar.

Using the highschool excuse still almost seems to be some form of denial at this point.
And what I am starting to believe is that neither of them will develop into superstars. Of course, passing judgement such as this is premature to say the least. Just last month Kwame was being written off as a bust, but look at him now. He owned Jermaine O'Neal the last time they played. Kwame just might prove all his doubters, including myself, wrong. For his sake, I certainly hope so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
Yeah I am really looking forward to the day when the NBA establish an age limit. The league needs it bad.
This will always be an interesting debate, but I don't think we will ever see it happen. I was going to write an editorial regarding this, but ultimately chose against it. KG is the worst thing to happen to the league. People rarely remember that the only reason he entered the draft was because he could not qualify for a college scholarship. His draft position was very unclear for the days leading to the draft, and many were even surprised that he went as high as he did on draft night.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/06/25/high_schoolers/

This article here doesn't share the same opinion as me, nor do I think this article is very accurate in some of its judgements, but nonetheless it contains a decent chronology and snapshot of all the HS players drafted. Clearly, Lewis would have benefited had he attended college. But for the most part, I see that these players, who are almost drafted exclusively on potential, don't even begin scratching the surface of their potential until many years later. How fair is this for the fans and teams in question? How fair was it for Toronto to groom TMac, only to have him bolt a few seasons later? Or for Krause to put Chicago fans thru years of painful losing on the hope that his twin HSers pan out? And how fair is it for the players themselves? Couldn't Lewis have benefitted with millions more in a guaranteed contract by being a first rounder? Or Korleone Young, Leon Smith, Ousmane Cisse, Stephen Jackson? Might they be more successful had they gained the requisite skill set in college? The writer describes Stephen Jackson's game as the following:

At times Jackson looks as though he's still playing high school basketball, but he refined his skills enough to help the Spurs win the championship. He had a long road, though, bouncing all over kingdom come after being cut by the Suns nearly six years ago.
How much better of a player might he be now had he attended college? Of course, this is a "what if" along the lines of "what if the Bulls never traded Brand and drafted Arenas and Richardson instead". Regardless, it's still a question that a fan can't help but ask.

I hope that one day the NBA mimics the minor league system of baseball. I believe it would be a benefit for teams, fans, and players.
 

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Very good post spook. We either institute an age limit or use the NBDL as a minor league for basketball. That way HS kids can play there for a year or two, whatever is necessary for the individual.
 

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Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
Very good post spook. We either institute an age limit or use the NBDL as a minor league for basketball. That way HS kids can play there for a year or two, whatever is necessary for the individual.
I really hope that this becomes a feasible idea. From this fan's perspective it is an ideal proposition. It would be annoying if your team drafted a raw project and then sent him to the minors, but overall it might improve the quality of NBA ball, and isn't it already annoying enough to see your team draft a HS kid and know that, unless he's Amare or Lebron, he's not gonna contribute for 2 years? Instead of using 1-3 roster spots on young guys who can't see the court because they're clueless, they could bring in hardworking veterans who may not become the next McGrady, but can contribute positively to a team until the kid in the NBDL rounds into form.

I have trouble believing that guy such as, say, Desagana Diop, has benefited more from practicing and sitting on the bench for the Cavs than he would have by practicing and playing real games against other talented but raw kids like himself as well as highly motivated unsigned free agents who also want a crack at the NBA.
 

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I think a minor league system would be the best thing to ever happen to the NBA. If they set it up to were there was maybe 1 game a week and then the rest of the time was spent actually practicing fundamentals. Plus they could have class on basketball theory and strategy also maybe speech to try improve the quality of their interviews. This way by the time players got to the NBA they would be smarter and have a better foundation for coaches to work with. In the long run this would make the game more enjoyable to watch. Even the worst teams would atleast play a sound game despite not having the best talent. Also the few players like KG and Lebron who don't need it could be brought up to the NBA after they've proven themselves too good for the minors.
 
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