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Discussion Starter #1
We're kind of all over the place with what goes where: Around the League? Misc? NCAA Tournament?

Figured lump it all in here together.

Obviously, we got Mason nabbing their guy, Fordham looking for theirs. GW possibly having an opening soon?

Shaka just left Texas for Marquette, leaving two Big 12 jobs open. Indiana still needs a coach.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
What baffles me is that after all this conference realignment consolidating power into the BCS, none of these administrators are acting like their actions CHANGED COLLEGE BASKETBALL.

Firing coaches like Miller and Woj, running Shaka out of town all over the BCS for making the NCAA tournament less frequently as before, or just how NCAA Tournament crapshoots go.

The idea that Shaka isn't a good enough coach to keep Texas happy is insane. Everyone's high on Porter Moser now because he's got a Final Four and Sweet 16 at Loyola.... but he'll be fired in 5 to 12 years from a BCS school for only doing what they're all doing.

I was talking to an Indiana fan about expectation, and asked him "So 8 years into the next coach, where's your line where you say We should keep this guy?" and he said 5 NCAA trips, 3-2 in the First Round, two second-weekend runs including an Elite 8 or Final Four. That's what Indiana basketball should be"

And I said: What you describe is Syracuse. Last 8 full seasons: 5 NCAA, Final Four, Elite 8. Previous 8 years: 5 NCAA, Final Four, Elite 8.

The difference is that in the Big East, Syracuse averaged 27-9 record; and in the ACC they average 24-12 record. Because of conference expansion, conf schedule expansion, playing fewer OOC games. They could go 2-1 in a tournament, buy 8 OOC games, beat the crap out of USF, Rutgers and two rebuilding Catholic schools, make the BE Semis/Finals and be 25-7 entering the NCAA Tourney. In the ACC, 2-1 in a tourney, buy FIVE OOC games, play 20 ACC games, the ACC/Big Ten challenge only have one bad team in the ACC, make the ACC Qtrs, and they're 22-12 and on the bubble every damned year!

Bob Huggins? Should be in the HOF. He has 3 rebuilding seasons the last 8 years with NCAA Tourneys at WVU. 5 of 8.

All these schools are firing the 21-75 best coaches in basketball every year just trying to find themselves a Hall of Fame coach, because they think that going 28-4 half the time, 23-9 the other half, and making 8 straight NCAA tournaments in a row is still a realistic expectation for a coaching hire, when it's not. Kansas, Duke, UNC and Kentucky can't even do it anymore, but Texas and Indiana thinks they're going to pluck guys from the A-10 who will?

Mark Few is probably the smartest guy in college basketball. I hope Mark Schmidt stays as smart and decides "I double what I've done: 3 more NCAA tournaments, 0-3 in the Round of 64 and they'll build a statue of me here; or I can go to Texas, do the exact same thing and get fired? Screw that."
 

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Shaka knew what he was getting into, as did Miller.
Texas fired Barnes after he went to 16 out of 17 NCAA's.
Shake made 3 of 6, and only had 2 winning conference seasons. Lost in all first rounds, and Abilene was probably the icing on the cake. So he got out to Marquette. He grew up in Wisconsin, so will probably be welcomed.
Miller knew the pressure at IU. He didn't produce, so he walked away with $10 million. Not a bad few years.
 

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What baffles me is that after all this conference realignment consolidating power into the BCS, none of these administrators are acting like their actions CHANGED COLLEGE BASKETBALL.

Firing coaches like Miller and Woj, running Shaka out of town all over the BCS for making the NCAA tournament less frequently as before, or just how NCAA Tournament crapshoots go.

The idea that Shaka isn't a good enough coach to keep Texas happy is insane. Everyone's high on Porter Moser now because he's got a Final Four and Sweet 16 at Loyola.... but he'll be fired in 5 to 12 years from a BCS school for only doing what they're all doing.

I was talking to an Indiana fan about expectation, and asked him "So 8 years into the next coach, where's your line where you say We should keep this guy?" and he said 5 NCAA trips, 3-2 in the First Round, two second-weekend runs including an Elite 8 or Final Four. That's what Indiana basketball should be"

And I said: What you describe is Syracuse. Last 8 full seasons: 5 NCAA, Final Four, Elite 8. Previous 8 years: 5 NCAA, Final Four, Elite 8.

The difference is that in the Big East, Syracuse averaged 27-9 record; and in the ACC they average 24-12 record. Because of conference expansion, conf schedule expansion, playing fewer OOC games. They could go 2-1 in a tournament, buy 8 OOC games, beat the crap out of USF, Rutgers and two rebuilding Catholic schools, make the BE Semis/Finals and be 25-7 entering the NCAA Tourney. In the ACC, 2-1 in a tourney, buy FIVE OOC games, play 20 ACC games, the ACC/Big Ten challenge only have one bad team in the ACC, make the ACC Qtrs, and they're 22-12 and on the bubble every damned year!

Bob Huggins? Should be in the HOF. He has 3 rebuilding seasons the last 8 years with NCAA Tourneys at WVU. 5 of 8.

All these schools are firing the 21-75 best coaches in basketball every year just trying to find themselves a Hall of Fame coach, because they think that going 28-4 half the time, 23-9 the other half, and making 8 straight NCAA tournaments in a row is still a realistic expectation for a coaching hire, when it's not. Kansas, Duke, UNC and Kentucky can't even do it anymore, but Texas and Indiana thinks they're going to pluck guys from the A-10 who will?

Mark Few is probably the smartest guy in college basketball. I hope Mark Schmidt stays as smart and decides "I double what I've done: 3 more NCAA tournaments, 0-3 in the Round of 64 and they'll build a statue of me here; or I can go to Texas, do the exact same thing and get fired? Screw that."
Shaka is Smart. He got out and went to a basketball school. He gave it a try thinking with better recruits he could compete for a national championship. His Big12 title kept him in house but he knew after Abilene Christian sent him back to Austin that nothing short of a deep run would keep him around. He got going when the going was good. Gotta give it to him credit for that. Ha!
 

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Shaka knew what he was getting into, as did Miller.
Texas fired Barnes after he went to 16 out of 17 NCAA's.
Shake made 3 of 6, and only had 2 winning conference seasons. Lost in all first rounds, and Abilene was probably the icing on the cake. So he got out to Marquette. He grew up in Wisconsin, so will probably be welcomed.
Miller knew the pressure at IU. He didn't produce, so he walked away with $10 million. Not a bad few years.
Paul is spot on here. There will always be a supply of hot-shot coaches that will assuredly take your team to the Final Four, or will at a minimum make your fan base happy for a few years. Archie could have stayed at Dayton and actually made more money than what he made at IU. I doubt that he planned to fail in 4 years and collect a $10 million severance. But again, every aspect of the college industry is a fucking mess. Any CEO of a Fortune 500 would be fired for running their corporation like the IU athletic department. On the academic side they bilked the federal student loan system for trillions.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Shaka knew what he was getting into, as did Miller.
Texas fired Barnes after he went to 16 out of 17 NCAA's.
Shake made 3 of 6, and only had 2 winning conference seasons. Lost in all first rounds, and Abilene was probably the icing on the cake. So he got out to Marquette. He grew up in Wisconsin, so will probably be welcomed.
Miller knew the pressure at IU. He didn't produce, so he walked away with $10 million. Not a bad few years.
You're totally right. But so am I. This is about expectations and "What exactly does success look like?" Those facts are true, I'm merely saying that ADs are delusional about the conclusion they draw from those stats.

"3 of 6 NCAA tournaments" and "Only 2 winning conference seasons" means that he made an NCAA tournament while NOT finishing with a winning conference record! 9-9 and 8-10 gets you an NCAA bid in the Big 12, so winning conference record is basically meaningless.

If you go year by year and re-order them to match similar results, the difference between West Virginia and Texas during Shaka's tenure is about 7 more conference wins, one more bid, and two more NCAA first round victories; with Huggins clearly having a head start (and the one season that doesn't match was the year Jones sat out with Leukemia). WVU clearly is doing better, but it's not by such a significant amount that one guy is fired while the other guy has everyone asking "how come he isn't in the Hall of Fame yet?"

But Shaka lost to a 14 seed! Yeah, Stephen F. Austin kicked WVU's ass in the 2016 NCAA Tournament first round in a 14-3 upset. Shaka didn't make the Second Round this year! Yeah, and Bob got there and then lost to the 11 seed!

There are like 20 Hall of Fame Coaching staffs, and every BCS school without one is just firing good coaches to try and find the next great coach. And the only reason they do it is because they can do it, even though it's a huge waste of money, adds more instability to the program as players transfer our and the new coach brings in "his guys."

Texas will probably luck out, steal Beard from Texas Tech and instability rebuild factor will be minimized by the fact that Beard very well could be that next HOF coach based on Little Rock and Texas Tech; AND by stealing TTU's coach, it puts THEM into the instability/rebuild situation.


I'm just saying that what all these programs are doing with a philosophy of "making the dance half the time, and not reaching the Sweet 16 is not good enough to keep your job" is a losing strategy.
 

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Archie could have stayed at Dayton and actually made more money than what he made at IU.
I think that may be a stretch...especially if he'd been successful at IU.
What did they pay Dayton when he left?
 

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I think that may be a stretch...especially if he'd been successful at IU.
What did they pay Dayton when he left?
UD offered Archie more to stay than what he was paid at IU. UD’s AD publicly stated that he offered a contract that would have put Archie in the top ten D1 coaches.
 

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UD offered Archie more to stay than what he was paid at IU. UD’s AD publicly stated that he offered a contract that would have put Archie in the top ten D1 coaches.
I’ll never understand some of these coaches. If you win big at a place like UD—one with plenty of resources, good facilities, and outstanding fan support—and start fielding P5 offers, why would you even pick up the phone? The expectations at a place like IU are totally unreasonable in today’s landscape. Even if IU paid more up front, the lack of job security there would make the long game at UD much more attractive to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I’ll never understand some of these coaches. If you win big at a place like UD—one with plenty of resources, good facilities, and outstanding fan support—and start fielding P5 offers, why would you even pick up the phone? The expectations at a place like IU are totally unreasonable in today’s landscape. Even if IU paid more up front, the lack of job security there would make the long game at UD much more attractive to me.
I agree completely. But they're also highly competitive people, and have egos. So they all think that they can go win somewhere else just as easily as they won at wherever they were.
 

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I’ll never understand some of these coaches. If you win big at a place like UD—one with plenty of resources, good facilities, and outstanding fan support—and start fielding P5 offers, why would you even pick up the phone? The expectations at a place like IU are totally unreasonable in today’s landscape. Even if IU paid more up front, the lack of job security there would make the long game at UD much more attractive to me.
The AD said it wasn’t about money
 

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According to this report, Miller signed for $3.35 million per year...an increase from the his Dayton salary of $1.16 million. He had a potential of another million in performance bonuses.
Call me skeptical, and I know Dayton has a lot of resources, but I don't think they would have matched IU's offer.
 

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According to this report, Miller signed for $3.35 million per year...an increase from the his Dayton salary of $1.16 million. He had a potential of another million in performance bonuses.
Call me skeptical, and I know Dayton has a lot of resources, but I don't think they would have matched IU's offer.
Paul I really don’t care if you believe me. I know that your affiliation with Xavier means you have to automatically shit on Dayton. At least get your references in order. Travis Steele and Chris Mooney forever and Anthony Grant never.

 

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I also find it unlikely that Dayton truly offered to triple Archie's salary. We often see statements and leaks that are exercises in embellishment, and there are reasons such things happen.

But also, who cares? The guy is long gone, and I doubt many miss him.
 

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I also find it unlikely that Dayton truly offered to triple Archie's salary. We often see statements and leaks that are exercises in embellishment, and there are reasons such things happen.

But also, who cares? The guy is long gone, and I doubt many miss him.
I also find it unlikely that Dayton truly offered to triple Archie's salary. We often see statements and leaks that are exercises in embellishment, and there are reasons such things happen.

But also, who cares? The guy is long gone, and I doubt many miss him.
Have you considered that Archie was making more than the report that Paul cited? Not all of Archie’s comp was being run through UD’s financial reporting. Stay in your lane Hawk. This isn’t StJoes
 
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