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Discussion Starter #1
I have been debating on whether or not to comment and if I did what I should say about this whole Hinrich situation and people thinking we should trade him just because Duhon has been so good. It is absurd. We should keep them both. Here is a reason why that works for me. Here is a list of some of the better teams in the NBA. They all have 2 very solid point guards. In most all of these cases the backups in fact could be starters on other teams given the right opportunity but they are backups on very good teams. In my opinion it is becoming very important to have 2 point guards that you are comfortable with running the show if need be. We have that in Hinrich and Duhon. No reason to ruin that.

Detroit - Billups, Arroyo
Miami - D.Jones, Dooling
Denver - Miller, Boykins
Boston - Payton, Banks
Seattle - Ridnour,Daniels
Phoenix - Nash, Barbosa
Sacramento - Bibby, Jackson(when healthy)
Dallas - Terry,Harris
Memphis - Williams,Watson
San Antonio - Parker, Udrih
Chicago - Hinrich, Duhon - End of conversation.
 

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Once again, I don't think anyone is saying to trade Hinrich for nothing.

But... if we can trade Hinrich for a top-notch 2 guard, then it should be considered. Since we have a comprable player in Duhon.
 

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kukoc4ever said:
Once again, I don't think anyone is saying to trade Hinrich for nothing.

But... if we can trade Hinrich for a top-notch 2 guard
Why trade Hinrich for a topnotch two guard...when he is a top notch two guard?
 

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Basghetti80 said:
I have been debating on whether or not to comment and if I did what I should say about this whole Hinrich situation and people thinking we should trade him just because Duhon has been so good. It is absurd. We should keep them both. Here is a reason why that works for me. Here is a list of some of the better teams in the NBA. They all have 2 very solid point guards. In most all of these cases the backups in fact could be starters on other teams given the right opportunity but they are backups on very good teams. In my opinion it is becoming very important to have 2 point guards that you are comfortable with running the show if need be. We have that in Hinrich and Duhon. No reason to ruin that.

Detroit - Billups, Arroyo
Miami - D.Jones, Dooling
Denver - Miller, Boykins
Boston - Payton, Banks
Seattle - Ridnour,Daniels
Phoenix - Nash, Barbosa
Sacramento - Bibby, Jackson(when healthy)
Dallas - Terry,Harris
Memphis - Williams,Watson
San Antonio - Parker, Udrih
Chicago - Hinrich, Duhon - End of conversation.
Every one of those teams has a huge shooting guard or at least a small forward that can (and does) play against the opposing twos quite often. We don't have that...we have Ben Gordon, more Jason Terry than Dwyane Wade in terms of true pg or sg skills.

I'm not saying we should trade Hinrich, I'm just saying that every team is different. We have our own strengths...and weaknesses...that need to be bolstered or addressed.

edit: To add in a response to GB (welcome back, btw) I will say that Hinrich is more of a top notch point guard than a top notch two guard. His value is much higher at pg where he actually has size and strength advantages without giving up anything, really. I think Kirk has improved a ton from last year...but his numbers are nearly identical. This is from the difficulties he has at SG...though he's still definitely a fine, fine player.

I'd trade BG before I trade Kirk given that Kirk fits the Bulls SOOO well and that I think we could toss about some high profile superstars with Ben as bait...though I'm still inclined to sit pat and enjoy the team we have.
 

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Detroit - Richard Hamilton
Miami - Dwyane Wade
Denver - Carmelo Anthony
Boston - Paul Pierce
Seattle - Ray Allen
Phoenix - Joe Johnson
Sacramento - Cuttino Mobley
Dallas - Michael Finley
Memphis - Bonzi Wells
San Antonio - Manu Ginobli
Chicago - Ben Gordon

We are the ones different from the rest, the rest have true shooting guards.

Ben Gordon very well may be the guy that goes and we keep Kirk and Du.
 

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GB said:
Why trade Hinrich for a topnotch two guard...when he is a top notch two guard?
Just depends on what you want the future of the team to look like.

If we get paired up against Boston and their large, physical guards in a playoff series... we'll see how the current guard trio holds up under intense circumstance. Arenas and Hughes will be a good test as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh I agree that Ben may be moved although him and Wade are very comparable I think
 

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sloth said:
Detroit - Richard Hamilton
Miami - Dwyane Wade
Denver - Carmelo Anthony
Boston - Paul Pierce
Seattle - Ray Allen
Phoenix - Joe Johnson
Sacramento - Cuttino Mobley
Dallas - Michael Finley
Memphis - Bonzi Wells
San Antonio - Manu Ginobli
Chicago - Ben Gordon

We are the ones different from the rest, the rest have true shooting guards.

Ben Gordon very well may be the guy that goes and we keep Kirk and Du.
Gordon... 6-3 200
Hinrich... 6-3 190
Wade... 6-4 212
Allen... 6-5 205
Mobley... 6-4 215
Wells... 6-5 210

I don't know your definition of "true shooting guard", but I don't see how Mobley or Allen or Wade are any more of a "true shooting guard" than Gordon or Hinrich?
 

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I'm with K4E. If you saw Gary Payton abusing Duhon in the post, you'd know this is a real problem that has yet to be attacked. Bet your bottom dollar that Washington/Cleveland/Boston realize this weakness of the Bulls and will ATTACK it in the half court, slowed down offenses of the playoffs.

I still don't get why Payton didn't post Duhon more in the second half of the Boston game...he was unstoppable from there.

Gordon may be "6'3" but it's obvious that he's either shorter in actual height or plays MUCH shorter than that. He's a RIDICULOUS scorer...but you all know he plays like a dwarf on defense. He's a small guy, no way around it, by NBA terms.
 

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BealeFarange said:
I'm with K4E. If you saw Gary Payton abusing Duhon in the post, you'd know this is a real problem that has yet to be attacked. Bet your bottom dollar that Washington/Cleveland/Boston realize this weakness of the Bulls and will ATTACK it in the half court, slowed down offenses of the playoffs.

I still don't get why Payton didn't post Duhon more in the second half of the Boston game...he was unstoppable from there.

Gordon may be "6'3" but it's obvious that he's either shorter in actual height or plays MUCH shorter than that. He's a RIDICULOUS scorer...but you all know he plays like a dwarf on defense. He's a small guy, no way around it, by NBA terms.
Payton's back was hurt.
 

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I've been away for a few weeks and wasn't surprised to see the "trade Hinrich" talk. Honestly, I wouldn't have believed that the Bulls could win 3 in a row without Hinrich. I've stated time and again that Hinrich is the Bulls most important player (though I've also said repeatedly that Hinrich is a very good, not great player).

You shouldn't make your long-term decisions on the basis of 3 games. If you did, you'd have discarded just about every player on this team.

Long term, I like Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon, in that order. Gordon is simply a special talent and you don't let them get away. Gordon might eventually become an acceptable PG (offensively), but I'm not sure I want him to be. He's terrific at the SG on offense. If Gordon is the key, then we need a guard who can play PG on offense and SG on defense. Hinrich does that better than Duhon, IMO. If we can trade Hinrich for a player who fits the offensive PG/defensive SG better than Hinrich, do it. If we can get a defensive-minded SG with the MLE, that works for me as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that trading Hinrich is not insane or sacrilegious, but Hinrich is an awfully good player and, if you trade him, you better get it right.
 

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Here is how I see it, if you are making of a list who to keep, and who to let go, and who is most important to the Bulls, this is how my list goes.

1. Eddy Curry
2. Luol Deng
3. Kirk Hinrich
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Ben Gordon
6. Chris Duhon
7. Andres Nocioni
8. Antonio Davis
9. Othella Harrington
10. Eric Piatowski

The only thing is that there is a difference between Deng and Curry. Curry is the best inside scoring center in the league outside of Shaq, Luol is a good offensive player, and our best defensive player outside of Tyson Chandler. Kirk is important, we are still an alright team without him, we are playing a relatively easy stretch along with Curry taking on a bigger role to make the team win. I feel comfortable with the Bulls without Hinrich, but I feel a hell of a lot more comfortable with Hinrich.
 

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Here's my list (perhaps this should be its own thread?)

1. Eddy Curry
2. Luol Deng
3. Tyson Chandler
4. Ben Gordon
5. Kirk Hinrich
6. Chris Duhon
7. Andres Nocioni
8. Antonio Davis
9. Othella Harrington
10. Eric Piatowski
 

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sloth said:
Here is how I see it, if you are making of a list who to keep, and who to let go, and who is most important to the Bulls, this is how my list goes.

1. Eddy Curry
2. Luol Deng
3. Kirk Hinrich
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Ben Gordon
6. Chris Duhon
7. Andres Nocioni
8. Antonio Davis
9. Othella Harrington
10. Eric Piatowski

The only thing is that there is a difference between Deng and Curry. Curry is the best inside scoring center in the league outside of Shaq, Luol is a good offensive player, and our best defensive player outside of Tyson Chandler. Kirk is important, we are still an alright team without him, we are playing a relatively easy stretch along with Curry taking on a bigger role to make the team win. I feel comfortable with the Bulls without Hinrich, but I feel a hell of a lot more comfortable with Hinrich.
Did someone kidnap Sloth and post under his screen name? I actually agree a lot with many things he said here. I might change the order of the players a llittle but overall I agree with much he says.
 

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BealeFarange said:
I'm with K4E. If you saw Gary Payton abusing Duhon in the post, you'd know this is a real problem that has yet to be attacked. Bet your bottom dollar that Washington/Cleveland/Boston realize this weakness of the Bulls and will ATTACK it in the half court, slowed down offenses of the playoffs.
I agree that this is a known issue. I disagree that it yes "yet to be attacked." All year you have seen teams with big guards attempt to post up our smallish lineup when possible. The other teams in the NBA are smart and they don't need to have a crack investigative team to figure out that this is a potential weakness to be exploited. Perhaps they will try harder in the future to exploit it, but I am of the opinion that we've been a good defensive team this year even though other teams have been trying to post up our guards.
 

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I think we're only seeing part of the picture. Yes, our guards are small; yes, other teams do try to post them up; yes, we don't have a big SG (actually we do in Pike).

But guess what, we're winning! We're shooting for the #4 seed. Anyone here think this is where we would be? Didn't think so. And guess what, we're either top or second in holding opponents to the lowest shooting percentage.

But what the hell, Pax and Skiles and the guys aren't doing this our way so we moan and whine. Talk about gratitude. This team has become a bunch of players - but not "our" way. So, we want to blow up the team, trade these guys who brought us thus far, and get superstar X (you fill in the name here), etc, etc.

How long before we begin to "get" what Pax and Skiles are doing?

If you think Pax is going to dump Kirk just because he doesn't fit the archetype guard, think again. A lot of top NBA folks not connected with the Bulls think Kirk is for real. But what the hell do they know compared to us. We are the experts. We have the inside scoop, right?

Time to exit fantasy world and get real folks!

We have a winning team. We have a great shot at the playoffs. We have become a desired destination. The future is bright ----- let the cake bake!
 

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KwaZulu said:
I think we're only seeing part of the picture. Yes, our guards are small; yes, other teams do try to post them up; yes, we don't have a big SG (actually we do in Pike).

But guess what, we're winning! We're shooting for the #4 seed. Anyone here think this is where we would be? Didn't think so. And guess what, we're either top or second in holding opponents to the lowest shooting percentage.

But what the hell, Pax and Skiles and the guys aren't doing this our way so we moan and whine. Talk about gratitude. This team has become a bunch of players - but not "our" way. So, we want to blow up the team, trade these guys who brought us thus far, and get superstar X (you fill in the name here), etc, etc.

How long before we begin to "get" what Pax and Skiles are doing?

If you think Pax is going to dump Kirk just because he doesn't fit the archetype guard, think again. A lot of top NBA folks not connected with the Bulls think Kirk is for real. But what the hell do they know compared to us. We are the experts. We have the inside scoop, right?

Time to exit fantasy world and get real folks!

We have a winning team. We have a great shot at the playoffs. We have become a desired destination. The future is bright ----- let the cake bake!
Thats great but things change in the playoffs. Teams make a more concerted effort to exploit ourweaknesses. Even Pax has SAID that we need a long defensive2 guard so it really is an obvious issue and not just something people are making up.
 

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ace20004u said:
Thats great but things change in the playoffs. Teams make a more concerted effort to exploit ourweaknesses. Even Pax has SAID that we need a long defensive2 guard so it really is an obvious issue and not just something people are making up.
I think you have to say that right now, it is a "concern". It becomes an issue once

A. we can do something about it
B. we can't overcome our weaknesses as a team

Is there a team on the planet that doesn't have weaknesses which can be exploited? Even the US Army has weaknesses which can be exploited. The real question is, are they surmountable?

So far, we're doing alright, I would say. Let's wait and see.
 

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My list of who is most important to keep for next season:

1. Curry
2. Chandler
3. Hinrich
4. Deng
5. Gordon
6. Nocioni
7. Duhon
8. Davis
9. Othella
10. Piatkowski
 

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Rhyder said:
My list of who is most important to keep for next season:

1. Curry
2. Chandler
3. Hinrich
4. Deng
5. Gordon
6. Nocioni
7. Duhon
8. Davis
9. Othella
10. Piatkowski
My list is EXACTLY the same as Rhyder's.

Also, while watching Bonzi Wells absolutely demolish the Bulls small backcourt yesterday, I was again reminded of this thread. Also, while watching Griffin (whom I really like, unfortunately) accomplish nothing out there, it was clear that we need more of an SG type player in his roster position.
 
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