Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

4461 - 4480 of 4522 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
The WAC is aggressively pursuing the following schools: Abilene Christian, Lamar, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and Southern Utah. 4 of them are members of the Southland, with SUU being the exception. Evidently the 4 Southland schools are not happy with the financial commitment to athletics (in particular facilities and staff) of the rest of the rest of the conference (Louisiana schools: SE Louisiana, McNeese State, Northwestern State and Nicholls State; Texas schools: Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word). What I thought appeared to be a pretty stable mid-major conference may not be that way after all.

It must be really bad if it is more appealing to join this list of schools:

California Baptist
Chicago State
Dixie State
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Tarleton State
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley

Not that the other Southland schools are prime beef, but at least travel expenses would be less one would think.

Anyway, looks like we could be in for some more shuffling very soon.
The WAC is aggressively pursuing the following schools: Abilene Christian, Lamar, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and Southern Utah. 4 of them are members of the Southland, with SUU being the exception. Evidently the 4 Southland schools are not happy with the financial commitment to athletics (in particular facilities and staff) of the rest of the rest of the conference (Louisiana schools: SE Louisiana, McNeese State, Northwestern State and Nicholls State; Texas schools: Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word). What I thought appeared to be a pretty stable mid-major conference may not be that way after all.

It must be really bad if it is more appealing to join this list of schools:

California Baptist
Chicago State
Dixie State
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Tarleton State
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley

Not that the other Southland schools are prime beef, but at least travel expenses would be less one would think.

Anyway, looks like we could be in for some more shuffling very soon.
I would imagine they would have a divisional setup that would have the TX additions be in a division with Rio Grande Valley, Tarleton State and NMSU this minimizing travel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,524 Posts
I would imagine they would have a divisional setup that would have the TX additions be in a division with Rio Grande Valley, Tarleton State and NMSU this minimizing travel.
Oh I'm sure. But man, Chicago State couldn't stick out as the "one of these things is not like the others" much more than it does. I kinda feel bad for them: not much in the way of a campus, not much in the way of facilities and nobody wants them. WAC was extremely desperate amid the major reshuffling and offered them refuge.

Central Arkansas is also on that Atlantic Sun list, meaning the Southland would be very shorthanded.
Yeah, the Southland could be in a world of hurt. I gotta say, I didn't see that being the case. They definitely seemed pretty stable to me. They would be losing the teams that come to mind for most people when that league is mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Oh I'm sure. But man, Chicago State couldn't stick out as the "one of these things is not like the others" much more than it does. I kinda feel bad for them: not much in the way of a campus, not much in the way of facilities and nobody wants them. WAC was extremely desperate amid the major reshuffling and offered them refuge.



Yeah, the Southland could be in a world of hurt. I gotta say, I didn't see that being the case. They definitely seemed pretty stable to me. They would be losing the teams that come to mind for most people when that league is mentioned.
You gotta think Chicago State is down for the count...even if they aren't and all those schools do join, you're now a 14-team conference that still has some big time outposts and besides things like "commitment" and other words some of those departing Southland schools may throw around about the conference, you're trading a big regional conference for another one, so even with some potential scaling down of travel for those Southland schools joining and whatnot, it's still a lot of mouths to feed and not everyone is going to be happy. Also, this move is meant to get the WAC back into what seems to be FCS football...but it's gonna be weird when probably one of your bigger schools New Mexico State stays in FBS and can easily have a wandering eye. Might all tie back into our previous speculation that CUSA/Sun Belt have some kind of break up and NMSU gets invited to the western and TX-oriented conference that comes out of that? NMSU knows it doesn't have to make the decision to jump down now. It can see where dominoes fall and find itself a better situation if it wants. Either way, I guess the WAC strategy is we've been picked off for so long let's do some picking of our own to save ourselves from not taking such a huge hit if we lose a Chicago State and/or NMSU.

As for the Southland, they'll really need to pitch to keep Central Arkansas now to stay at 9 members and keep the minimum of 7 to keep sponsoring football. Maybe the A-Sun finally gets its wish for that mega conference if there's some ASun-Southland merger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
You gotta think Chicago State is down for the count...even if they aren't and all those schools do join, you're now a 14-team conference that still has some big time outposts and besides things like "commitment" and other words some of those departing Southland schools may throw around about the conference, you're trading a big regional conference for another one, so even with some potential scaling down of travel for those Southland schools joining and whatnot, it's still a lot of mouths to feed and not everyone is going to be happy. Also, this move is meant to get the WAC back into what seems to be FCS football...but it's gonna be weird when probably one of your bigger schools New Mexico State stays in FBS and can easily have a wandering eye. Might all tie back into our previous speculation that CUSA/Sun Belt have some kind of break up and NMSU gets invited to the western and TX-oriented conference that comes out of that? NMSU knows it doesn't have to make the decision to jump down now. It can see where dominoes fall and find itself a better situation if it wants. Either way, I guess the WAC strategy is we've been picked off for so long let's do some picking of our own to save ourselves from not taking such a huge hit if we lose a Chicago State and/or NMSU.

As for the Southland, they'll really need to pitch to keep Central Arkansas now to stay at 9 members and keep the minimum of 7 to keep sponsoring football. Maybe the A-Sun finally gets its wish for that mega conference if there's some ASun-Southland merger.
The best thing for Chicago State might be to find a partner and try to beg the OVC to let the two teams in. OVC is already in Illinois but not Chicagoland and all but 1 member are public institutions. The OVC probably won't see the value in doing it but that would likely be the best move for Chicago State
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,975 Posts
I know a big part of the answer is probably "pride," but I don't know how/why Chicago State is still a D-1 school. Maybe they think doing D-1 on a D-2/3 budget and getting your brains beat in is better than doing D-2/3 on a D-2/3 budget? But I'm curious what motivates them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
The best thing for Chicago State might be to find a partner and try to beg the OVC to let the two teams in. OVC is already in Illinois but not Chicagoland and all but 1 member are public institutions. The OVC probably won't see the value in doing it but that would likely be the best move for Chicago State
Only thing is the OVC is already at 12 members. They could see Jacksonville State bolt as they were on the ASun shortlist along with Central Arkansas, but now JSU might be on the Southland's list if they're looking to bolster their ranks (and keep football afloat). And if the OVC wanted a 12th, with football it can probably convince Chattanooga to come aboard from the Southern Conference, which of course puts the SoCon in a position where it would need to find a replacement member somewhere (which wouldn't be Chicago State). I'm not convinced the OVC cares that much to be in a Chicagoland media market if that's its only choice.

Chicago State was in the Summit before going to the WAC. The Summit has 10 members when St. Thomas joins next year. That's their best shot at finding something regional and it's no guarantee the Summit would want them back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,524 Posts
Ah, the Summit League. The conference I was worried about when it had members from Utah (Southern Utah) to Louisiana (Centenary) to Michigan (Oakland) and places in between. Then it became the conference I was concerned about last decade with defections (Centenary, Oakland, Valpo, IUPUI, Purdue-Ft Wayne, Southern Utah). However, I think they actually may have come out a little stronger with the additions of Denver, all the Dakota D-I schools and St Thomas next year. My understanding is that those 4 (North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota, South Dakota State) all like being in the same league with the intra and inter state rivalries. I can't imagine any league is gonna come along and invite all 4 and not sure any of them will get an offer they can't refuse, unless maybe the Missouri Valley needs a team and goes hard after South Dakota State or South Dakota.

Barring a defection or 2, I cannot imagine the Summit inviting Chicago State back. I know it has been mentioned the "Chicagoland media market", but honestly, they are probably like 45th to get any sort of coverage after the University of Illinois tennis team and the DePaul wrestling squad. Hell, I would bet that Valpo gets more coverage as it is about the same distance to downtown Chicago despite being in Indiana. Not to mention the University of Wisconsin, UW-Milwaukee, etc. Other than maybe helping other league members recruit Chicago just because they have a member school in the area, I can't think of another reason why they would be invited anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: catpower

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,389 Posts
We’re going to see a lot of reshuffling once CBS loses the SEC, they’re going to most likely go after the Big XII or the AAC, which will make a few immediate moves, then the football playoff will change even more dynamics. Then, just like last decade when this thread first started, it’ll all trickle down again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
I assume you meant to post this:



Also, Chicago State is leaving the WAC in 2022:



Edit: Found a SHSU site that listened to the full conference call


1) New Mexico State is going to stay FBS Independent, but all schools will "commit to an analysis of implications of moving to FBS"

2)UT-RGV has a "letter of intent" to begin playing football by 2024. This would bring them to 8 members

3) Conference is seeking a 14th football playing member to align with its Texas division
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,389 Posts
Southern Utah I didn’t see coming, I thought they were happy in the Big Sky. Chicago State is making probably one of their best moves, but it’d be interesting to see where they land.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
As for armchair analysis on these moves:

1) Good luck Chicago State...Summit League? MEAC even? Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference?

2) These schools are really going to have to commit to saying they want to be FBS in order to keep NMSU happy, especially if there's movement in C-USA and such.

3) Seattle still feels out place there. Might be asking themselves if all those flights are worth it. They'd probably have to fly anywhere, but in a conference like the Big Sky, they in theory have a few bus trips.

3) With Southern Utah joining the WAC...I wonder if Northern Arizona might be the 14th football playing member? All hinges on this FBS stuff, but SUU was their closest conference opponent and now the WAC is slightly more concentrated in their area. Also could see a wildcard and Idaho being the 14th member, especially if there was seriousness to jumping back to FBS since they dropped down to FCS and all their donors hated it. (Edit: I realize they want someone in the Texas Division...but unless they're accelerating a FBS timeline and grabbing UTEP or one of those CUSA schools...that basically means someone else probably in the Southland because there's not much else around that would make that drop)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts


Could have been a mistake in the press release...but, Central Arkansas to ASun, would probably go to Big South to be its 9th FB member as an affiliate with the other ASun football schools. Would leave the Southland down to 8 members, 7 football.

Southland looking at more teams to move up to D1? Raid the nearby SWAC schools (Texas Southern and Prairie View)?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,389 Posts
I'm thinking about it more and more, and given the increasing haves vs. have nots in FBS, I'm baffled why these football teams plan on going FBS. It's continuously showing it's a money loser and is a drain on school resources. If they're doing this to keep NMSU, especially since they'd be easy pickings for replacing Boise St should they leave for the AAC, or Colorado St if they leave for the Big XII, then, honestly, it's just not worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
I'm thinking about it more and more, and given the increasing haves vs. have nots in FBS, I'm baffled why these football teams plan on going FBS. It's continuously showing it's a money loser and is a drain on school resources. If they're doing this to keep NMSU, especially since they'd be easy pickings for replacing Boise St should they leave for the AAC, or Colorado St if they leave for the Big XII, then, honestly, it's just not worth it.
Maybe because years and years of brainwashing people into believing you have to be "big time" in sports or you're nothing? Fans are the ones who suffer most from this derangement, but college presidents, ADs and coaches are just as bad.

I mean I recall some Albany and Stony Brook football fans posting about how they'd much rather watch their team lose a non-conference game by 5 TDs to a middling SEC team than to compete in FCS. There still is a faction of UVM supporters who are convinced that the school must do all it can to either leave the AE for bigger conference, or have the "become the Gonzaga of the East" terrible takes. There's a difference between fans being delusional...but it gets dangerous when administrators share that level of thinking, which is clearly what's going on with some of these other institutions in regards to football.

I've read that stuff on Boise State and the AAC and to me it is just funny because so much of it is chasing the dragon and it's painfully obvious any move will not make a single difference in their football fortunes. Football is dumb and the playoff system that everyone thought was the answer has only made it worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I mean I recall some Albany and Stony Brook football fans posting about how they'd much rather watch their team lose a non-conference game by 5 TDs to a middling SEC team than to compete in FCS. There still is a faction of UVM supporters who are convinced that the school must do all it can to either leave the AE for bigger conference, or have the "become the Gonzaga of the East" terrible takes. There's a difference between fans being delusional...but it gets dangerous when administrators share that level of thinking, which is clearly what's going on with some of these other institutions in regards to football.
Name recognition goes a long way. The lower level FBS schools have to answer the "who/where is that?" much more than the smaller state schools playing FCS football. Being a state school (non-directional, non-"at ____") in itself is a national brand, or at least has a much better foundation to build upon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts


The guy who posted that had Central Arkansas' AD on his podcast, who confirmed they are going to the ASun, and said they'd have six teams, which means the rumors of Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky joining must be true. Sounds like Stetson is going to say in the Pioneer league. Takes the OVC down to 10 members from 12, 7 football schools left.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
All speculation in the twitterverse, but sounds like the Southland is targeting Texas Southern and Prairie View A&M from the SWAC to join them.


(That's a writer for UT-RGV who are in the WAC but, he might have had some informal convos with people who could know).

I also find it funny that there's someone who made an entire account dedicated to breaking up the Southland, even before these announced splits. There's a lot of suggestions in there for candidates, worth checking if you're interested (the pinned tweet on the top covers a lot of it)


Good suggestion at why stop at Texas Southern and PV...could see if Grambling and Southern would be convinced. They'd fit a lot of the Southland's remaining profile. Otherwise they're looking to the D2 ranks, but there's quite a bit, and schools with facilities that are certainly lower D1 level.

Also interesting to learn that Texas A&M Corpus Christi and Texas A&M Kingsville, which are 36 miles apart, had merger talks that sputtered out in 2016. Kingsville is D2 and has football (John Randle!)...might that get revisited a la an LIU Brooklyn/Post merger (or even the schools that merged to create UT-RGV), to give them some more security in football membership?
 
4461 - 4480 of 4522 Posts
Top