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I'm gonna file this one right here...unless I'm missing something, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the ONLY thing this does for the CAA is give them an address in the southern part of the United States. And that's it.

 

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Low barrier to entry into the CAA these days. Have to announce something like this early August so nobody notices.

At some point have to wonder some of the northern schools don't look around and ask themselves "what are we doing, here, exactly"?
 

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Low barrier to entry into the CAA these days. Have to announce something like this early August so nobody notices.

At some point have to wonder some of the northern schools don't look around and ask themselves "what are we doing, here, exactly"?
Asking that and doing something about it at two different things... I think the only one close to doing anything about it could be UD then one that happens who knows but what does Towson really bring to the table by itself?
 

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I have to disagree. Maybe this wasn't their first choice, but there is sense in this move.

CAA South will be
C of C - Small Public, 10K enrollment
UNC Wilmington - Mid Public, R2 14K enrollment
NC A&T - Mid Public, 13K enrollment
Elon - Private, 6K
Campbell - Private, 6K
Hampton - Private, 5K
William & Mary - Small Public, 9K enrollment

I dunno, I think it matches the enrollment character of the southern division as a whole. The real outlier to that end really is UNC Wilmington, but I suspect that they're fine matching with schools well within their footprint.

Overall I'm ok with the US News rankings of the conference. Five schools in the top 100 (more than the AEC, which has 1, Binghamton), with one non-national Univ in each division. Campbell appears to be at least academically on par or better than Monmouth, and is tied with NC A&T. Remember, this conference had such academic "darlings" as James Madison (#3 Regional South) and George Mason (better now but was a glorified community college when it was in the conference). I don't think it was ever top to bottom academically inclined, but maybe I'm wrong.

South:
C of C - #9 Regional South
UNC Wilmington - #187 National Univ
NC A&T - #277 National Univ
Elon - #83 National Univ
Campbell - #277 National Univ
Hampton - #202 National Univ
William & Mary - #38 National Univ

North:
Towson - #196 National Univ
Delaware - #94 National Univ
Drexel - #103 National Univ
Monmouth - #18 Regional North
Hofstra - #162 National Univ
Stony Brook - #93 National Univ
Northeastern - #49 National Univ

I can agree with this as an athletic move. Campbell appears to have had several very good athletic years, with a well known baseball program and a recent player to the NBA. They won the Sasser (Commissioner's) Cup 2 of the last 3 years that it was offered (skipped in 19-20 due to COVID). I don't think the AEC's pickup of Bryant (#7 Regional North) could be justified any differently.

Do I hope that the next wave (there will be - I think they go to 16) brings in a few more schools I recognize (lookin at you again Howard and Albany)? Sure. However, I think Campbell fits in a bit better with CAA South than a first look would suggest.
 

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Low barrier to entry into the CAA these days. Have to announce something like this early August so nobody notices.

At some point have to wonder some of the northern schools don't look around and ask themselves "what are we doing, here, exactly"?
yo
I have to disagree. Maybe this wasn't their first choice, but there is sense in this move.

CAA South will be
C of C - Small Public, 10K enrollment
UNC Wilmington - Mid Public, R2 14K enrollment
NC A&T - Mid Public, 13K enrollment
Elon - Private, 6K
Campbell - Private, 6K
Hampton - Private, 5K
William & Mary - Small Public, 9K enrollment

I dunno, I think it matches the enrollment character of the southern division as a whole. The real outlier to that end really is UNC Wilmington, but I suspect that they're fine matching with schools well within their footprint.

Overall I'm ok with the US News rankings of the conference. Five schools in the top 100 (more than the AEC, which has 1, Binghamton), with one non-national Univ in each division. Campbell appears to be at least academically on par or better than Monmouth, and is tied with NC A&T. Remember, this conference had such academic "darlings" as James Madison (#3 Regional South) and George Mason (better now but was a glorified community college when it was in the conference). I don't think it was ever top to bottom academically inclined, but maybe I'm wrong.

South:
C of C - #9 Regional South
UNC Wilmington - #187 National Univ
NC A&T - #277 National Univ
Elon - #83 National Univ
Campbell - #277 National Univ
Hampton - #202 National Univ
William & Mary - #38 National Univ

North:
Towson - #196 National Univ
Delaware - #94 National Univ
Drexel - #103 National Univ
Monmouth - #18 Regional North
Hofstra - #162 National Univ
Stony Brook - #93 National Univ
Northeastern - #49 National Univ

I can agree with this as an athletic move. Campbell appears to have had several very good athletic years, with a well known baseball program and a recent player to the NBA. They won the Sasser (Commissioner's) Cup 2 of the last 3 years that it was offered (skipped in 19-20 due to COVID). I don't think the AEC's pickup of Bryant (#7 Regional North) could be justified any differently.

Do I hope that the next wave (there will be - I think they go to 16) brings in a few more schools I recognize (lookin at you again Howard and Albany)? Sure. However, I think Campbell fits in a bit better with CAA South than a first look would suggest.
Redwyn, this post isn't a reply to you so much as an "enough with the defense of the CAA, their moves make sense" commentary that I see on multiple boards. I also think we are both saying the same thing, in different ways. However, others in the sports world (media, consultants, members of leagues, etc) and I feel there is little to no sense in this move. I am going to be flat out honest. Many CAA northern school fans are NOT happy. They would have most certainly accepted a move to grab Winthrop or High Point. Honestly, the CAA is a rudderless ship right now and the only hope is a prep for a split. Don't buy the hype for Campbell at all, they are a ridiculous, small religious university being added to a predominantly public school league. They literally sit at the bottom of acceptance criteria in the State of North Carolina, accepting 81% of applicants, which ranks as the 47th WORST in the State. Think about that number.

This was the move I said would shock many in February. I can tell you flat out that the Northern flank begrudgingly accepted this due to the appeasement need for the Southern schoolsl. Per my understanding, the three schools that were going to come in together were Howard, Albany, and Campbell but a bunch of schools did not like the Campbell move...and then Howard was wishy washy (all the way back in February).

With Howard balking again, the CAA had to make a move for a Southern school that wanted in (Furman, Wofford, and Greensboro politely said no at the beginning--they were the original targets to all CAA moves, per my understanding). Winthrop was a lukewarm choice and I think High Point wants in the Southern.

Now let's talk about football. The CAA is only going to get 3-4 bids per year, maybe 5 max in a blue moon year. Then you are going to have schools not play each others for years. Mark my words...this will be the beginning of the end of CAA Football as we know it. My opinion and a strong one. The CAA all sports teams will ultimately want more playoff access and they will look to start their own league. Remember, CAA Football is not owned by the CAA, it is operated by the CAA. There is no GOR to worry about so all the CAA schools need to do is say, "Screw it...we are out". That would leave UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Richmond, and Villanova on the outside.

The new CAA Football conference would be: Stony Brook, Monmouth, Towson, Delaware, W&M, Hampton, NC A&T, Elon, and Campbell. My guess is they vote for Richmond and Villanova to stay. That's 11. That's a good sized league. If Howard comes on as a full member, you have 12. So, the AE schools plus URI would be screwed.

The CAA pulled the trigger on what is a straight up athletic move only. The CAA definitely gets an athletic up and comer, zero doubt. Also a school that has been flat out caught cheating, just coming off of it's five year football scandal probation. You think they got their Top FCS recruiting class due to NIL, their Stadium (mid pack for CAA), crazy student life (not so much)?

Academically, look at the picture you painted in the inverse...and I posted this on another board:
BY USNWR RANKING
1. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
2. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
3. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
4. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
6. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
7. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
8. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
9. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
11. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

BY SHEER PRESTIGE (FACTORING AAU, CARNEGIE, and USWNR...not workplace prestige)

1. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
2. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
3. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
5. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
6. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
7. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
8. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
9. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
11. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

The big deal with moving to the CAA (for the new schools) and expansion by the CAA was academics and geography. Well, let's not kid ourselves with the academic add. For perspective, if Albany came in...we'd slot in at #8. So out of the five recent adds, all but Stony Brook would be well below the median line.

I dunno, it really doesn't effect me in the end...if Albany went I'd root for the Danes...but the CAA is truly two conferences and the real outliers are W&M and Elon, who are more like the Northern flank than the Southern flank.
 

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Dane, I agree that we're saying mostly the same thing, but I think we should consider who that conference has lost over the past few years.

Where would George Mason, Old Dominion, James Madison and Georgia State have ranked on that list? All in the bottom half I'd guess, and at least JMU below Campbell. Hell, before its NCAA run George Mason was a commuter school barely better than a community college.

I think we need to dispel the image that the CAA is a top to bottom academic powerhouse or even wants to be. It never was, in my opinion. I think a strong argument can be made that every CAA move is an athletic move.

Would I have picked the "Fighting Camels" as my #1 choice. No, and it doesn't seem that the CAA had them as their #1 either. But perhaps they'll be a good athletic opponent and we'll see better peer selections in another wave. Or as you said we'll see the conference effectively split in two but under one media rights banner.
 

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Dane, I agree that we're saying mostly the same thing, but I think we should consider who that conference has lost over the past few years.

Where would George Mason, Old Dominion, James Madison and Georgia State have ranked on that list? All in the bottom half I'd guess, and at least JMU below Campbell. Hell, before its NCAA run George Mason was a commuter school barely better than a community college.

I think we need to dispel the image that the CAA is a top to bottom academic powerhouse or even wants to be. It never was, in my opinion. I think a strong argument can be made that every CAA move is an athletic move.

Would I have picked the "Fighting Camels" as my #1 choice. No, and it doesn't seem that the CAA had them as their #1 either. But perhaps they'll be a good athletic opponent and we'll see better peer selections in another wave. Or as you said we'll see the conference effectively split in two but under one media rights banner.
Fair points
 

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I guess I am harping on the academics due to statements like these, not to mention the garbage on the boards from fans about how this was a peer academic move to be more aligned with like minded schools:

“This invitation is a historic step for our institution and a testament to our tremendous growth – both in academics and athletics – over the last two decades,” said Stony Brook University President Maurie McInnis.

"We are pleased to welcome Hampton University, Monmouth University, and Stony Brook University as the newest members of the CAA. All three institutions fit perfectly into the framework of the Conference's vision that calls for our membership to work together to advance nationally competitive athletic programs – coupled with outstanding academic programs – that empower student-athletes as whole persons to strive at the highest level in every aspect of their lives."

D'Antonio (CAA Commish) said, “When we made the decision to activate the plan that we had in place, we were really focused on three main things. 1—The school had to be a geographical fit. 2—Any institution that we were looking at in this process had to be an institution with a strong academic background and reputation and 3—We were also focused on making sure the institution was not only committed to investing in its student-athletes and their future, but also committed to investing in the future success of its athletic programs.”

My point is: 1) There is no real direction right now, no homogenous nature of the CAA; 2)The only add for academics was Stony Brook, the rest have potential much like I have the potential for winning powerball; and 3) The league really is a north vs. south proposition. More importantly, NOT A SINGLE ADD will give the CAA a second basketball bid. It's still a one bid league.
 

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I guess I am harping on the academics due to statements like these, not to mention the garbage on the boards from fans about how this was a peer academic move to be more aligned with like minded schools:

“This invitation is a historic step for our institution and a testament to our tremendous growth – both in academics and athletics – over the last two decades,” said Stony Brook University President Maurie McInnis.

"We are pleased to welcome Hampton University, Monmouth University, and Stony Brook University as the newest members of the CAA. All three institutions fit perfectly into the framework of the Conference's vision that calls for our membership to work together to advance nationally competitive athletic programs – coupled with outstanding academic programs – that empower student-athletes as whole persons to strive at the highest level in every aspect of their lives."

D'Antonio (CAA Commish) said, “When we made the decision to activate the plan that we had in place, we were really focused on three main things. 1—The school had to be a geographical fit. 2—Any institution that we were looking at in this process had to be an institution with a strong academic background and reputation and 3—We were also focused on making sure the institution was not only committed to investing in its student-athletes and their future, but also committed to investing in the future success of its athletic programs.”

My point is: 1) There is no real direction right now, no homogenous nature of the CAA; 2)The only add for academics was Stony Brook, the rest have potential much like I have the potential for winning powerball; and 3) The league really is a north vs. south proposition. More importantly, NOT A SINGLE ADD will give the CAA a second basketball bid. It's still a one bid league.
LOL. While my immediate response to McInnis is "what the hell else would she say?", it's still funny.

No. Campbell does not fulfill some sacred academic mission. However, I'd argue that neither did Nebraska for the Big 10. We all lie to make ourselves feel better.

I'm with you. The CAA needs a clean end to this expansion storyline. Right now it looks like the end of Hangover II. Hopefully we'll see something that makes sense in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,072 ·
The CAA is a chameleon....they're anything and everything....North and South.....old and new. Most of all they are a holding pen....where you go to figure things out and figure your next move.
 

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Now let's talk about football. The CAA is only going to get 3-4 bids per year, maybe 5 max in a blue moon year. Then you are going to have schools not play each others for years. Mark my words...this will be the beginning of the end of CAA Football as we know it. My opinion and a strong one. The CAA all sports teams will ultimately want more playoff access and they will look to start their own league. Remember, CAA Football is not owned by the CAA, it is operated by the CAA. There is no GOR to worry about so all the CAA schools need to do is say, "Screw it...we are out". That would leave UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Richmond, and Villanova on the outside.

The new CAA Football conference would be: Stony Brook, Monmouth, Towson, Delaware, W&M, Hampton, NC A&T, Elon, and Campbell. My guess is they vote for Richmond and Villanova to stay. That's 11. That's a good sized league. If Howard comes on as a full member, you have 12. So, the AE schools plus URI would be screwed.
All good points in this post Dane,

It's true that CAA can't kick out the affiliates, they can always leave if they so choose as you say. This is why and I can't believe I'm saying this, I hope UD goes to the A-10 or goes to FBS football. It sucks because I wouldn't want to lose playing UD in football(just like I didn't want to lose playing JMU) but UD making either of those two moves is the only way to help us in that scenario. If UD went A-10 and became an affiliate member just CAAFB I'd have a hard time seeing them leave the northern schools behind if BigSouth+ decided to leave.

Regardless of if the CAA wanted to invite back say richmond or villanova on Day 1 you'd have
UNH,Maine,URI, Albany,Villanova, Richmond all without a conference, I think UD would prefer that over
Hampton, Monmouth, Campbell, NCA&T, Elon, it would be hard due to W&M/Towson being in that group though.

On that same Day 1 AE should absolutely start football and say hey A-10 schools+ villanova lets keep you 4 together and make you charter members. Add the AE 3 which makes 7. Yes Bryant would be 8th and I know their stadium is small... I really do see the away side being better with the new arena and I can see them expanding the home side if added popularity but still.... this would allow them to make an extra slot for a OOC game against say W&M/Towson/SBU etc....

Also if they left and tried to just invite Villanova and Richmond back there would probably be litigation. Right? If they want more exposure why have any affiliates?
 

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All good points in this post Dane,

It's true that CAA can't kick out the affiliates, they can always leave if they so choose as you say. This is why and I can't believe I'm saying this, I hope UD goes to the A-10 or goes to FBS football. It sucks because I wouldn't want to lose playing UD in football(just like I didn't want to lose playing JMU) but UD making either of those two moves is the only way to help us in that scenario. If UD went A-10 and became an affiliate member just CAAFB I'd have a hard time seeing them leave the northern schools behind if BigSouth+ decided to leave.

Regardless of if the CAA wanted to invite back say richmond or villanova on Day 1 you'd have
UNH,Maine,URI, Albany,Villanova, Richmond all without a conference, I think UD would prefer that over
Hampton, Monmouth, Campbell, NCA&T, Elon, it would be hard due to W&M/Towson being in that group though.

On that same Day 1 AE should absolutely start football and say hey A-10 schools+ villanova lets keep you 4 together and make you charter members. Add the AE 3 which makes 7. Yes Bryant would be 8th and I know their stadium is small... I really do see the away side being better with the new arena and I can see them expanding the home side if added popularity but still.... this would allow them to make an extra slot for a OOC game against say W&M/Towson/SBU etc....

Also if they left and tried to just invite Villanova and Richmond back there would probably be litigation. Right? If they want more exposure why have any affiliates?
First, I dig it that you are calling the Southern flank Big South+. It's true, and it is some weird mix of the Big South, MEAC, and CAA holdovers. Sorry, anyone saying that Southern flank is anything more than that...well, I have a bridge to sell you. Then again, Campbell is literally pulling the "all in" Liberty on sports...so I foresee them getting very good, very quickly.

I agree that UD is the key here and no matter what handwringing is going on behind the scenes or on message boards, I do believe that UD will leave with others at some point if the CAA isn't elevated to the "new" FCS / G5. They spend way too much on athletics to justify anything esle.

I also agree that right now, there needs to be some behind the scenes wheeling and dealing between the affiliates.

As for Bryant, I am not worried...in fact, I think if Howard balks ONE last time (they have an open invite for next year, per my sources), my original comment to many here that Bryant has been discussing football with the CAA could come to reality. In that scenario, it makes life a TON easier for the CAA to go to 16 by bringing in two of four (five with Howard) target schools that I've heard mentioned: Fairfield or Albany in the North and Winthrop or High Point to the South. I do think Bryant is making a massive mistake by putting in some sort of small stand that is part of their basketball arena for the other sideline, unless of course, it looks like URI. They are handcuffing stadium growth. That being said, Bryant since on a massive piece of property...so you never know.

As for the litigation....over what?
 

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Delaware is the ultimate do nothing school….blessed with geography and lots of $$$$….their athletic department should be on par with UMass and URI….at the very least. Not sure what the deal is down there but something has held them back. They have definitely been a thorn in the side of AE for 20+ years as it concerns membership and a stable future. Just piss or get off the pot already!
 

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First, I dig it that you are calling the Southern flank Big South+. It's true, and it is some weird mix of the Big South, MEAC, and CAA holdovers. Sorry, anyone saying that Southern flank is anything more than that...well, I have a bridge to sell you. Then again, Campbell is literally pulling the "all in" Liberty on sports...so I foresee them getting very good, very quickly.

I agree that UD is the key here and no matter what handwringing is going on behind the scenes or on message boards, I do believe that UD will leave with others at some point if the CAA isn't elevated to the "new" FCS / G5. They spend way too much on athletics to justify anything esle.

I also agree that right now, there needs to be some behind the scenes wheeling and dealing between the affiliates.

As for Bryant, I am not worried...in fact, I think if Howard balks ONE last time (they have an open invite for next year, per my sources), my original comment to many here that Bryant has been discussing football with the CAA could come to reality. In that scenario, it makes life a TON easier for the CAA to go to 16 by bringing in two of four (five with Howard) target schools that I've heard mentioned: Fairfield or Albany in the North and Winthrop or High Point to the South. I do think Bryant is making a massive mistake by putting in some sort of small stand that is part of their basketball arena for the other sideline, unless of course, it looks like URI. They are handcuffing stadium growth. That being said, Bryant since on a massive piece of property...so you never know.

As for the litigation....over what?
Yeah it’s BigSouth+ In my mind lol. I’m not against adding members, just really wished they added NCA&T for JMU and left it at that….
UD has to be trying to make a move behind the scenes, it must irk them so much not to be in the A-10.
For Bryant I do agree with you but I do think whatever their current plans are will be larger than the current away side(1200). Home side is definitely expandable as is the end zone with the new video board. Regardless though they will be there for an affiliate if needed by the CAA and for a new conference if something happens. Just need a bit of time to grow.

Well for litigation I was just thinking, so CAAFB charter members include affiliates. Even if the CAA teams leave, they’d naturally want the name which would cause issues with the charter members left out to dry? It’s basically saying we aren’t kicking you out but we are leaving with everything…Couldn’t the affiliates say hey If you are leaving than it’s our conference now with our rights to the name. I’m no lawyer, was just thinking of how this could be a potential issue
 

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Yeah it’s BigSouth+ In my mind lol. I’m not against adding members, just really wished they added NCA&T for JMU and left it at that….
UD has to be trying to make a move behind the scenes, it must irk them so much not to be in the A-10.
For Bryant I do agree with you but I do think whatever their current plans are will be larger than the current away side(1200). Home side is definitely expandable as is the end zone with the new video board. Regardless though they will be there for an affiliate if needed by the CAA and for a new conference if something happens. Just need a bit of time to grow.

Well for litigation I was just thinking, so CAAFB charter members include affiliates. Even if the CAA teams leave, they’d naturally want the name which would cause issues with the charter members left out to dry? It’s basically saying we aren’t kicking you out but we are leaving with everything…Couldn’t the affiliates say hey If you are leaving than it’s our conference now with our rights to the name. I’m no lawyer, was just thinking of how this could be a potential issue
They would pay for the right to use the name CAA Football...pretty much solves that issue.
 
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