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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Does Ron Mercer really stink that bad?

I know that the Bulls were glad to get rid of him, but it's interesting how thin we are at SG now that we don't have him anymore.

Thin isn't exactly the word, seeing all the backcourt players we have. Inexperienced.

Ron Mercer plays hard, scores well, and although he's begun hoisting shots as of late in his career (what do you expect when he's the main gunner on the Bulls), he can be good for a decent FG percentage. His supposedly subpar defense got 2.36 steals in December last year, and he averaged 2nd in steals among rookies his rookie year.

15.2 ppg, 44.1% FG, 2.3 rbs, .65 stls, 2.26 assists per game. Oh wait, those aren't Ron Mercer's numbers. Those are the numbers of the $100 million man, the All-Star, Allan Houston, in his first five years of basketball. (I know, no one likes Houston either, but still...)

17.1 ppg, 43.9% FG, 3.7 rbs, 1.38 stls, 2.56 assists per game. Oh THOSE are Ron Mercer's numbers... better than Houston in almost every aspect of the game, in the first four years of his career, playing for FOUR different teams (it's harder to get assists with teammates you don't play with for more than six months). The only advantage that Houston held over Mercer, at that point in their careers, was range on his shot. Houston shot exceptionally from behind the arc, while Mercer didn't try too often. Houston averages a career 40.1% 3point, while Mercer averages 25.7 %, over only 214 career attempts.

So other than the fact that he doesn't have the range (at least he doesn't hoist too many from behind the arc), why does he get bounced around the league like that? Does a three point shot make Houston the man of the Knicks while Mercer is trade scum? Does one post-season flash of Houston during a miracle lockout playoff for the Knicks make him worth so much more?

And WHY the freak would the Bulls trade Oakley instead of Mercer? Ron Mercer was a very coachable player, and he enjoyed being on the Bulls... it wouldn't have taken much convincing to get him to limit his FG attempts and play into a system more oriented to the big men... and he was showing improvement on his 3 point range too...

Then the roster would look like:

Jay Williams/Craw
Mercer/Hassell/Mason
Rose/Robinson
Chandler/Fizer
Curry/Bags

This is a STACKED team. Seriously it is. As long as you can be a believer in Mercer like I always was, then you could see how well this team could do. Even if you want Craw to get starting SG minutes and Hassell to contribute, then just shift Robinson further down the bench and let Mercer play 6th man behind Rose and only spot minutes at SG.

It all depends on what kind of FA we add this summer, but honestly, having money to spend this summer isn't really all that attractive with the weak FA pool out there. I'd rather have Mercer here with his contract and let the team grow. I think all the pieces are together and we don't need to save up a ton of money to pay a big time FA to come play for us. Mercer isn't really overpaid at 6.1 mil a year, when he can shoot the ball and warrant real minutes unlike Oakley, who "tutored" the big men and got paid 6.5 mil for it. And he's a FA in 2004, which is relatively soon and certainly before all the young guys need extensions...

I am open to attacks at this time. I know there are a lot of Mercer haters out there, but please tell me why sending Oakley away in the trade wouldn't have been better than sending Mercer.
 

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as i understand, mercer was the dealmaker for donny walsch, donny likes ron, and ron came through BIG TIME in the playoffs, probably his first playoffs ever, RIP hamilton is no better then ron, yet ron gets no respect

alot of fans expected too much from ron, (and fizer), but with the squad we have now, ron would flourish, especiall in the FG% area, and on a good team ron would put more effort into defense if he wasnt asked to carry the load of the teams offense, thats why i expect jalen's defense to be sub-par this year because he will be the center of our offense

you pair ron with jordan, and he thrives...id like the pacers to hold onto ron after reggie retires, he needs some stability in his life
 

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the main problem of having Mercer on the Bulls... imho... was watching him falter again and again, trying to be the focal point of the Bulls offense.

comparing him to Rip and Houston is a somewhat fair comparison... I'd have to say Rip is a better player right now -- he reminds me very much of Reggie (nearly identical size, great range, and the ability to hit the dagger in the back 3pter)

Houston is also a similar player to that, and sure, he's had his clutch moments too... but i just think he ****s horribly. mostly because he is one of the least well rounded guys in the league. yeah, he can shoot... but what else?

Reggie was always an underrated defender... Rip shows signs of the same... Mercer meanwhile, seems like he could very much be an all-around type player -- if he just wasn't so in love with his mid-range jumper on offense... and not being the focal point in Indiana should allow him the energy to D up as well


would Mercer still fit in on the Bulls right now? well, if we still pulled off the Jalen Rose trade, and substituted Oakley for Mercer... yeah, he'd fit in pretty well

this would, however, mean that Crawford would definitly have no place on the team any longer, and he would likely be shipped out for a big man and whatever else can be gotten.

still..

JWill/Best/Mason
Mercer/Hassell/Mason
Rose/Robinson
Chandler/Fizer/Baxter
Curry/?big man?/Bagaric

aint that bad... Mercer would be the 3rd option after Rose and Curry (pending Curry's development)
and depending on how quickly JWill progresses, that's a playoff bound team. perhaps not this coming season... but i have not a doubt in my mind that roster would reach the playoffs (7th or 8th seed) in the 2003/04 season
 

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I think having 3pt range definitely does make a BIG difference. First, of course 3pts is more than 2pts. But more importantly, having 3pt range creates spacing. Especially now with the zone defenses.

If 3pt shooting weren't so important, Kerr would've been out of the league.

I think Mercer and erob (preinjury) were very similar players. Perimeter players with a streaky mid-range jumper. Erob is a bit taller with more athleticism. Both could really benefit from a post game and a 3 pt shot.

One of the big beefs I had with mercer was his inability to finish driving to the basket.

I think hassel is a capable replacement, if he continues to improve. Hassel's D is better and he seems to have a better 3pt shot and post game. I think Mercer can create his little mid range jumper better, but Hassel is a good role player that can complement the inside games of rose, chandler, curry.

Jamal may be able to become a better 2-guard too, if he bulks up. Jamal was lighting up the 3pt line near the end of the year. And he can do that same cross-over pull up mid range jumper that mercer loves.

Hoiberg provides great hustle, 3pt range for the remaining minutes (although last year his shot was off. I think he was injured though).

Rose and erob may be able to move to the 2 guard too.

I think our biggest hole is more the 3-spot. Jalen and erob are good slashing threes. But we need a more physical three presence. That's why Harpring is big on the FA wish list.
 

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:no: I guess my assessment of Ron Mercer is much more negative than all of yours. First, in response to Johnny Bravisimo, I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. As I understood it, the Pacers liked the idea of having Oakley as an enforcer, but the fact that his contract ended this year was the main attraction. Mercer, meanwhile, has like 3 more years at $7 mil per on average. Not good for the cash-strapped Pacers, who are scrounging for money to sign Harrington, O'Neal, and Bender. The reason the deal took so long was that Krause was trying to get them to take Mercer instead of Oakley (we had to throw in Kevin Ollie to make it work - the original deal was Oakley, Artest, and Miller for Rose, Best, and Brezec).

Why does Ron Mercer stink? Let me count the ways:

1. He's a cancer. Darrell Armstrong said it in not so many words when he talked about that season when Orlando barely missed the playoffs. Said something about how the team had a hustling, play-hard mentality, and they brought in some guys mid-season who didn't fit in well with that - he supposedly meant Ron Mercer. When a guy plays for 5 teams in 5 years (and is traded in 3 of his first 5 seasons), it's usually because the coaches don't like him (or his name is Chris Gatling).

2. He doesn't play defense. Matador defense, all the way. Steal numbers don't mean squat. All they tell you is how much a guy likes to gamble into passing lanes. He probably gives up twice as many baskets as he creates by not playing solid D and gambling for steals.

3. He froze out the rookies. He wasn't the only guy guilty of this, but I got really tired of seeing him look off Curry with good position in the post, just so he could jack up his leaning 20-footer. Talk about a guy who's just out to pump up his numbers...

4. He's not aggressive enough with the ball on offense. Whenever he gets into the lane or on the fast break (which is a rarity in itself), you can count on him to pull up for a short jumper, or attempt some overly-finesse layup, which often misses. He's just so weak with the ball. I've never seen him take it up real strong and dunk it on someone. I'm not dunk-obsessed, but you like to see a player be aggressive.

5. That contract. How many of us are whining about E-Rob's contract right now? Mercer has a richer contract, which he really doesn't deserve. Nobody in the league thinks he's worth that much.

6. He cannot shoot the 3-pointer. I've watched too much of Ron Mercer to let anyone write this off as good shot selection. Granted, some players with enough range choose not to shoot a lot of 3-pointers (e.g. Kobe Bryant this season). Ron Mercer consistently looked very uncomfortable every time he stepped behind the arc, and was always way short on his shot. Hard off the front iron is most consistent miss from 3, but not from anywhere else. I don't think he has the legs to get it there. You just can't be a starting SG in the NBA today without 3 point range. I don't advocate reliance on the 3, but it's too powerful a weapon to not have in your arsenal, as a swingman.

I was glad to see him go. In fact, I can pinpoint the day that trade was announced as the day I regained faith in Jerry Krause. Getting rid of Miller and Mercer was the best thing we could have done. Neither one of those guys was part of the long-term solution. I can watch my team lose a lot of games, as long as some of the pieces of the puzzle are in place. I can't bear to watch them lose night after night with guys who are mercenaries, here for a few years to make a paycheck before moving on.
 

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Yes, sep. It has been so long that I forgot about how Mercer did nothing to develop our kids!

What a breath of fresh air jalen was when he came! Mercer used to run that same exact baseline curl to get his little mid-range shot. Jalen comes to the bulls and does that nice quick pass to chandler or curry or the curl for a dunk.

Mercer also hindered fizer too. He never gave the ball up to fizer in the post. This may have contributed to fizer's tendency to be a black hole. Once there isn't ball movement, people tend to chuck up shots when they touch the ball because they feel they won't get another chance.
 

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Ron Mercer is no Allan Houston, Rip Hamilton

Not even close

If you ask me, he looked horrible last season. Is it me or is his athleticism decreasing at an early age. It could be the injuries..don't know, but that young man sucked, thought he would be a player after his 1st two seasons in the league, but he hasn't improved one bit..We look much better at the 2 guard position with Hassell..Hassell goes out there and defends and rebounds and rarely turns the ball over..I like Hassell, he's a keeper just for the fact he gets down n dirty on the defensive end
 

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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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Discussion Starter #8
The fact is, Mercer can score. If it's on a sad mid-range jumper, it doesn't matter... he actually has a fairly good looking stroke. That's what initially made me compare him to Houston... a good body that doesn't rebound too hard, average passing, but a nice sweet stroke.

Steal numbers DO count. Mercer's man defense isn't beautiful at all, but invading passing lanes count for something, and he's got good size. He might get burned fairly often, especially on a fast break, but it'll be tough for opposing SG's to just shoot it in his face, and it's tough to post him up.

As for not advocating the rookies development, I think Mercer had the mentality that he had to carry the team. I remember in an interview when he first came to Chicago, how he was saying that it used to be Jordan's team but that time is over, and other people had to step it up, and he was referring to himself. This was HIS team. The coaching staff didn't really let him into the plan of building the twin towers, and if you don't remember, they got very sporadic playing time until January, when BC took over. Mercer went in a trade in February. You can't really point the finger at him.

I'm not saying he's a star, or that he ever will be. But he's a strong SG with good size and a good jumper, and better defense than he is credited for.

That is NOT true of Eddie Robinson. Eddie Robinson does NOT have a sweet shooting stroke, and his jumper is much worse than streaky... it's absolutely lucky when it sinks, and much more normal when he bricks it.

As for Mercer's athleticism, he was somewhat overrated in this area coming out of college. He's has some quickness, and can actually create his own shot, as was seen in Indiana's playoff series. But he's not a slasher, really, and not a good enough passer to work up a penetration-kick type of play.

I think that lacking the 3 pointer is definitely a major knock on him, but I also think that the three point shot is one of the most acquireable shots. Consider that Tyronn Lue was also scared of the 3 point shot, and Washington isn't a ferocious team offensively, but Lue managed to put up 63 for 141 from behind the arc, for 45%, and this after taking only 58 three pointers in his 61 games over the last three years prior to this season. There are other shooters that have added the 3-pointer to their game, enough to make an impact.

Those of you who are saying that we like Hassell better than Mercer, I tend to agree with you. I'm a big Trenton Hassell fan.

But Mercer's numbers don't lie (that much); he's a scorer. In the four games the Bulls won under Tim Floyd, Mercer was the high scorer in three of them. In two wins after the Floyd era, Mercer remained the high scorer for both. Only until he was injured and out did the other Bulls begin leading scoring in the wins. I'm not saying that leading the team in scoring means anything, but if anyone thinks that the Bulls could have done better if Mercer took a more secondary scoring role during his time here, they are wrong. There was no one else to score the points. Fizer wasn't going to be the primary option, or Curry, or anyone else... and Mercer can't handle the primary scoring role, but he was certainly forced into one and we can't be upset at him for taking one too many shots or not having a pass-first mentality. They asked him to score, so he took a lot of shots and he made a whole bunch of them too.

I am not saying I approve of his style of play in the past seasons as a Bull. I'm saying, would he fit if he were here now, playing in a different role? I think he might...
 

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My beefs with Ron Mercer (some of which I realize have already been mentioned):
  1. No 3-point range.
  2. Didn't play well with the rookies.
  3. Is known as an anti-social loner off the court.
  4. Matador defense.
  5. Strikes me as the type of NBA player who could care less if his team wins or loses-- he is perfectly content living the NBA lifestyle and collecting his nice paycheck.
  6. Doesn't seem to be the type to work hard on his game. There's no reason for him not to have developed a 3-point shot after 5 years in the league.
  7. Perhaps most importantly, he just doesn't "get" how to play basketball in a team concept. This goes way beyond assist numbers and shooting percentages. I'm talking about things like knowing when to swing the ball to the other side of the court, when to make the extra pass that leads to the pass the gets the assist, when to take his shot and when not to, when to take an outside shot and when to force it down low, etc.
 

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I once made the same comments about Mercer when he was still on the Bulls.

Bad things happened.

That being said, Mercer is still all of the above, and he is no Rip Hamilton. That is funy.
 

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Showtyme,

You will feel differently about Ron Mercer once we spend the $7 mil he had coming to him this season on a couple of big bodies to help rebound and play D, and to help the kids along.
 

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Mercer is a poison pill for the Pacers

I was one of the biggest supporters of Mercer when he was with the Bulls, but by unloading him on the Pacers, Krause has given them a glut of SG/SFs (Miller, Mercer, Bender, Harrington, Artest, Jones) and $7M less in cap room. The lack of playing time these guys are going to see along with the lack of cap room is going to make it very difficult for the Pacers to keep everyone happy. Add a coach that some folks say doesn't work very hard and plays favorites and this is a recipe for disaster for a young, talented team like the Pacers.

Mercer is a nice player, but he is not worth $7M on a good team, especially a team like the Pacers with an abundance of talent at the SG/SF positions. I think Krause is envisoning the day when having Mercer on the squad results in Bender or Harrington or Artest being available for cheap. And then Krause may just swoop in and buy low and get the last benefit from the Rose trade.
 

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one thing i noticed about ron's game was that it was VERY robotic

it seems as if he has no feel for the game, like he thinks about what he's gonna do before he even gets on the court, its always the same crossover, drive and pull-up fadeaway jumper, and sometimes he'd add a pretty spinmove but thats about it, but he game looks beutiful when he's hot

like he practices his poses in his apartment, because i could swear he looks like mj sometimes, but he dosent have the substance to his game that mike did

still.... i like the guy and hope he gets cut some slack in indiana
 

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Mercer would be overpaid at $3M/year

Why JK knows what he is doing was demonstrated when he held out for including Mercer in the Indy trade. That move in itself has opened up a lot of possibilities for the future by providing the additional cap space. Mercer is not as strong as Hassell. The only thing that Mercer can do is shoot a 17ft jumper. He is very weak driving to the basket, cannot create his own shot but will at times play ok defense. An unathletic, essentailly one dimensional shooting guard is easy to find anywhere. Now Indy has two problems; an overpaid Mercer and Croshere. Today you can only be succesful if you limit the amount of money you pay for poor talent. Hopefully EROB will not be the next stiff that JK needs to move
 

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Actually it was Walsh who wanted Mercer not Krause that had to include him in the deal.
 

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Who wanted Mercer?

If it was really Indy who wanted Mercer then that would be quite interesting since Indy has no need for him and they need cash for signing O'neil next year.

I assumed it had to be Krause that demanded Mercer be included because almost all of the articles in the week or so before never mentioned Mercer and much of the info was coming from Indy papers
 

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I will agree that it may not have been Walsh that wanted him.

I was going by what the guy who started the Walsh talk said.
 

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LMAO!

You edited your post and left out the Elton Brand part.... :laugh:
 

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I am not trying to start a controversy.

I could easily leave that part in but why do I want to start a fight? You looking for one?
 
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