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Discussion Starter #1
Who are you guys favorites to win the Eastern conference?

In no particular order:

1.Detroit: Detroit has gotten better by adding depth and a quality PG. While Billups is far from a superstar, he along with Chucky, will provide the Pistons what was their downfall last year, solid play at the Point position. Adding okur will hopefully give us a big man that can go inside and out, plus give cliff some rest so he can be ready for what should be a good playoff run. I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't surpass their 50 wins but still end up being a better team. On a separate note our future looks pretty bright with the money we will ahve to spend plus what could potentially be a very high pick from Memphis.

2.Boston: With the trade they pulled off I don't understand what they were doing. They could potentially mess up something good by bringing in the underacheiving Vin Baker, who might actaully do good in the east, but I don't think it was worth the risk. They took their only true PG off the roster, gave up on a 1st rd. pick in Joe Forte, and a solid rebounding big man (although he is hurt), for Baker and Shammond Williams who was beat out last yr. by rookie PG Earl Watson as Payton's backup in Seattle. They have big ?'s at the PG spot and I hope their plan is not to start Damon Jones because I was actually looking forward to having our old rivalry with them. The worst part may actually be that they added Baker's huge salary, whick will rule out any chance of Rodney Roger's return or them bringing in any significant players for at least the next four years.

3.New Jersey: Didn't really change anything but they made it to the East Finals so why would they. Although they are a KVH or a Kerry Kittles injury from messing that up.

4.Charlotte/New Orleans: It all depends on B. Diddy, if he's gone no way in hell they do anything remotely close to good. But they seem to always hang around and make a strong postseason showing.

5.Milwaukee: Can't help but fear them, with all that offense. I just can't count them out. If they solve their Karl/Maso/Cassell fueds they could be very dangerous.

What about you all?
 

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I agree with you on the pistons except their ultimate downfall last year wasn't pg rather stack and uncle cliffy not playing well in the playoffs. Stack and cliff should be the leaders on this team and take over the games when needed especially in playoff games, except for stacks big shot in game 5 they were nonexistent which is unacceptable for those guys. That being said if Detroit does not make the conference finals (after the acquistion of billups and the celtics terrible trade) it will be a disappointing season (injuries being the only exception). I would expect to see the nets or bucks in the conference finals against the pistons (hopefully). Like you mentioned the nets didn't do too much but they didn't need to. The bucks are in my opnioin the most talented team in the east and if they play together unlike last year I could see them coming out of the east.
 

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Hokeamaniac
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The point guard position was by far our biggest downfall in the Boston series. Kenny Anderson continuosly beat Chucky and we had absolutely no answer for this. Since that time we have upgraded our point guard position by getting Chauncey, and Boston has unloaded the player that killed us, Kenny. Using just a tad of reasoning, I would say we are in the better position. This is taking into consideration the way Ben shut down Vin Baker last year.

Also, until the Bucks play together as a unit and show they are not a bunch of babies on the basketball team, I fail how they can be considered the favorites to do anything at all. They have a great team on paper. Too bad the games aren't played on paper.
 

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Originally posted by jvanbusk
The point guard position was by far our biggest downfall in the Boston series. Kenny Anderson continuosly beat Chucky and we had absolutely no answer for this. Since that time we have upgraded our point guard position by getting Chauncey, and Boston has unloaded the player that killed us, Kenny. Using just a tad of reasoning, I would say we are in the better position. This is taking into consideration the way Ben shut down Vin Baker last year.

Also, until the Bucks play together as a unit and show they are not a bunch of babies on the basketball team, I fail how they can be considered the favorites to do anything at all. They have a great team on paper. Too bad the games aren't played on paper.
I am going to disagree with you a 120% that pg was our biggest downfall in the boston series. It was obviously Stack and Cliff not stepping up (they are the few guys on the team who have playoff experience) but lets look at some stats the game they won Game 1 Stack and Cliff have good games (there only one for the series). Now lets look at some games they lost for example Game 4 look what twan walker did and who is guarding him? Cliff is. What did kenny anderson do? also what did stack shoot? 5-15. Lets look at Game 5 now how did stack shoot on THE BIGGEST GAME OF THE SEASON? 3 FOR 18. Listen do you think the pistons lost that game because anderson had 17 or stack SHOOTING 3-18? Oh and Cliff thanks for 4 POINTS IN DO OR DIE GAME. The only person who played well that game was CHUCKY. Don't get me wrong chucky defense can be questionable at times but to say that is the teams biggest downfall is wrong in my opioin.
 

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Hokeamaniac
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KA continuously penetrated and burned Chucky and DJ the WHOLE series. This opened up all of Boston's offense. Not only did Kenny play well on the offensive end he played well on the defensive end.

Jerry had a sub-par playoffs and he will be the first one to admit that. One of the reasons that he didnt have a good playoffs was because he didn't shoot well and another reason was because the opposing defense shut him down. Boston did a great job on Stack. But, when you dig beneath the surface and statistics you will find that Kenny Anderson was the Piston-killer. Not Paul Pierce or Antoine Walker.
 

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Originally posted by jvanbusk
KA continuously penetrated and burned Chucky and DJ the WHOLE series. This opened up all of Boston's offense. Not only did Kenny play well on the offensive end he played well on the defensive end.

Jerry had a sub-par playoffs and he will be the first one to admit that. One of the reasons that he didnt have a good playoffs was because he didn't shoot well and another reason was because the opposing defense shut him down. Boston did a great job on Stack. But, when you dig beneath the surface and statistics you will find that Kenny Anderson was the Piston-killer. Not Paul Pierce or Antoine Walker.
I am going to disagree again (we don't agree alot do we :grinning: ) I would agree with you that KA was the piston killer if you could prove he was the reason for open shots (ie assists except he and pp had the same amount 22 that series and AW was not far behind) also if PP and AW were guys that relied on their teammates to get open shots like an eric williams or a tony battie does but AW and PP can create their own shot and take it to the hoop with or without KA. To say AW and PP are not piston killers is kinda of a reach considering between the two of them they averaged about 40 pts combined per game with an average of 83 pts per game being scored by the celts as a team. Way too often I noticed that Cliff and stack were too content to just take a jumper. Stack needs to take the ball to hoop more and draw fouls again. This is stacks year to put up or shut up if he has another sub par playoffs I want him outta here. The regular season is great but the playoffs are what matter.
 

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one more thing

I could have lived with chucky at PG the thing is the Pistons still don't rebound well enough in the playoffs me one has to step up that way. ben wallace can't do it by himself The celts' offensive rebounding killed the pistons last year
 

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Thats a good point madface (I had actually forgotten about how many offensive rebounds the celtics had). I think some of that has to do with the injury to zeliko rebraca not that they were a great rebounding team with him but they were better. Considering he is their only true C and probably their best rebounder besides wallace.
 

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Thanks brian

The thing is...like I mentioned in a post defending ben wallace not being overrated...The pistons are the worst rebounding team in the league statistically.

from NBA.com
regular season numbers

Team Rebounds Opp Rebounds Blocks Opp Blocks
1 Golden State 46.671 43.293 6.378 6.244
2 Sacramento 45.305 44.902 4.573 4.72
3 L.A. Lakers 44.256 43.195 5.829 4.317
4 Philadelphia 44.22 40.598 4.427 5.585
5 Minnesota 44.159 39.488 5.207 4.963
6 Charlotte 43.463 41 5.561 5.146
7 L.A. Clippers 43.378 41.988 6.585 5.354
8 New Jersey 43.341 42.878 5.976 5.354
9 Portland 43.037 39.244 4.488 5
10 Phoenix 42.707 42.963 4.89 5.793
11 Indiana 42.659 43.439 5.317 5.683
12 Dallas 42.512 44.695 4.78 4.598
13 San Antonio 42.354 41.854 6.549 5.22
14 Boston 42.207 45.866 3.561 5.805
15 Utah 42.171 38.183 6.378 6.683
16 Cleveland 42.085 40.366 5.732 5.598
17 Toronto 42.073 41.841 5.537 4.793
18 Washington 42.049 40.683 4.317 5.049
19 Miami 42.024 41.195 5.463 4.305
20 Houston 41.902 43.317 5.427 5.061
21 Denver 41.793 42.976 5.634 6.829
22 Atlanta 41.463 43.012 4.268 6.207
23 Milwaukee 41.439 42.537 4.732 4.402
24 Memphis 41.427 45.061 5.951 5.573
25 Orlando 41.244 45.354 4.683 4.683
26 New York 40.659 42.671 3.512 4.695
27 Seattle 40.256 41.671 4.439 4.878
28 Chicago 40.037 42.646 4.402 4.866
29 Detroit 38.732 42.707 6.89 4.085


38 rebounds a game can't cut it. while your foes are getting about 4 more a game. of couse the other column shows why we were in the playoffs. leading the league in team blocks and having the least number blocked.

You can't win championships like thattho. Corliss , Zelly, Uncle cliffy or one of the young guys has to step up and give a second consistant 6-8 rebs/game.

Rebounds=rings
 

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Hokeamaniac
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I bet if Zelly started he'd get around 7 boards per night. In fact, I don't understand why there isn't more talk of starting Zelly at center and Cliff at SF. This makes more sense to me than throwing Rodney or Tayshaun out there or having Curry start again. We wouldn't really lose to much bench scoring with Chucky being put back there. The only question of this I would have is would Cliff be able to keep up defensively with the other SF's in the league?
 

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yup

I always wondered why we didn't see zelly at c ben at pf and cliff at sf. I think cliff could...especially since alot of sf are 6'10 and 6'11 (tim thomas and mcgrady come to mind)
i have the inking that we will see that this year maybe okur cliff zelly along with prince at Sg sometimes for a big lineup. What? Pistons? big lineup?
i know things are looking up around here if i can say the Pistons have a big lineup

:laugh:
 

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Re: yup

Originally posted by MadFace
I always wondered why we didn't see zelly at c ben at pf and cliff at sf. I think cliff could...especially since alot of sf are 6'10 and 6'11 (tim thomas and mcgrady come to mind)
i have the inking that we will see that this year maybe okur cliff zelly along with prince at Sg sometimes for a big lineup. What? Pistons? big lineup?
i know things are looking up around here if i can say the Pistons have a big lineup

:laugh:
I don't know if Cliff could keep up with the speed and outside handles of a player like Tim Thomas or Tracy. If he can all the more power to him, but with his old legs that's the only question I really have. Zelly would provide an inside presence to the lineup his offense would go perfect with Ben's defense. (Zelly's a pretty good defender as well) He will just need to cut down on fouls, but after one year of playing in the NBA that shouldn't really be a big problem.

I also have to laugh at the thought of a big line-up :grinning:.
 

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Re: Re: yup

Originally posted by jvanbusk


I don't know if Cliff could keep up with the speed and outside handles of a player like Tim Thomas or Tracy. If he can all the more power to him, but with his old legs that's the only question I really have. Zelly would provide an inside presence to the lineup his offense would go perfect with Ben's defense. (Zelly's a pretty good defender as well) He will just need to cut down on fouls, but after one year of playing in the NBA that shouldn't really be a big problem.

I also have to laugh at the thought of a big line-up :grinning:.
You hit the nail on the head Cliff does not have the speed to keep up with most of the sf in the league. I would assume we will see even less of cliff this year anyways. With hopefully the continued improvement of Zelly who needs to stay out of foul trouble which if he does should mean him getting some of cliffs minutes. This is depth chart as I would like to see it (i purposely only have 11 guys on there). Who gets the 12th spot on the active roster is quite interesting. Those 11 guys for sure barring injuries will be on there. The remaining guys like ratko varda,tayshaun prince, mikki moore and brian cardinal will fight for it. It will come down to varda and prince and my pre training camp pick will be varda. Just because sg and sf is already log jammed and if prince ever contributes in the nba it will be in one of those positions.

c zelly robinson
pf wallace okur
sf curry williamson white
sg stack barry
pg billups atkins
 

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Okay

Cliff is probably too slow now that you pointed that out...hey could ben wallace guard a 3 regularly? just a thought.. that would cross people up

Mikki Moore is permanent IR this , his last year as a Pistons. If he would stop giving his money to strippers and get rid of his "hangers on" and into the Gym...he would look even better in his 3 piece suit on the Bench:D
 

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Re: Okay

Originally posted by MadFace
Cliff is probably too slow now that you pointed that out...hey could ben wallace guard a 3 regularly? just a thought.. that would cross people up

Mikki Moore is permanent IR this , his last year as a Pistons. If he would stop giving his money to strippers and get rid of his "hangers on" and into the Gym...he would look even better in his 3 piece suit on the Bench:D
I think Ben Wallace is to slow also I mean he is a great defender down low but if he had to defend someone like T-mac or PP on the perimeter he could not keep up with them either. I heard Mikki Moore on the radio about a year ago say that he has spent the last two or three summers working out hard and has just not been able to put on any weight. This year moore could have opted out of his contract secertly you had to think carlise and dumars were hoping he would but he is not stupid enough this is probably his last nba contract...
 

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About Moore

right after he signed that 3 year 9 million dollar contract, he asked my friend brian to train him. but he wasn't serious enough. he had all these guys around him that help spent his money. I know hmi, too. I am not talking bad about him...I am just dissappointed in him. well... at least he got one good contract but yeah I think he is gone outta the league after this season too.
 

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The sad thing is he did show some pretty good potential a few years ago. Good shot blocking and it looked like an improving inside game. I think the Mikki Moore downfall started when he was placed at the 3 as an experiment. That didn't work out as planned and Mikki has rotted away on the bench and IR.
 

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This is one fascinating discussion! I'm glad I came & read. I agree Cliff is too old to chase around young swingmen, but what a 6th man he'd make. He is smart, and could give the team something off the bench. I think Corliss should start at sf and Zelly at center and with your additions, this team just might be better next year. Billups was used to being in the west and that experience should help. Besides, you have one heck of a coach to integrate this "new" team.
 

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When JYD got traded

Mikki lost that littkle edge he had playing Salley to jerome Williams' Rodman

anyway back to the rest of the team.... you guys think this is the year that Cliff really goes downhill? I know its his contract year but will the "old' legs finally show that they are old? I would like to see Varda get time against the bigger teams . When the lakers, the Spurs,Kings, New Orleans,... teams like that with size in the post he needs to plays more. And where does Brian Cardinal play this year? Sf? PF? or does he spend a 3rd year an IR Starter? Hell the NBA should just expand their active rosters to 15. That would help the pistons out a lot
 

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One more thing

In the eastern conference who makes the step towards the playoffs and who slips Out? I think miami and Milwaukee get to the dance and as hard it is to say this ...Philly is gone into the toilet without AI for a long stetch. I am not sure who else will take a turn for the worse.. tho Toronto still needs help for Davis on the boards. letting keon clark go is a mistake
 
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