[FlyingTiger]

i dont understand why everybody on this board hates on Nash. hes the MVP this year hands down. some of you guys dont even have him in your top 5. give me a freakin break. AI over nash, kobe over nash..ECT. if baron davis, or francis played for the suns with the same numbers as nash. you guys would go nuts over any of those players. after nash wins the MVP this year, i want to see how many trends about him being the worst player ever to win this award.

 

[The Krakken]

i dont understand why everybody on this board hates on Nash. hes the MVP this year hands down. some of you guys dont even have him in your top 5. give me a freakin break. AI over nash, kobe over nash..ECT. if baron davis, or francis played for the suns with the same numbers as nash. you guys would go nuts over any of those players. after nash wins the MVP this year, i want to see how many trends about him being the worst player ever to win this award.

I can chime in on that now. He just might be the MVP this year.






















And he just might be the worst player to win the award since......well.....I can remember. I can't think of a single player from 1990 forward, that I would take Nash ahead of, who won the MVP during those years.

 

[Hakeem]

I doubt that if Francis played for the Suns and had Nash's numbers people would go nuts over him here. He's got to be one of the least popular players on the board.

 

[Dre]

if baron davis, or francis played for the suns with the same numbers as nash. you guys would go nuts over any of those players.

No, it's not about name value and that kind of stuff, because on this board, Nash would still probably win out in that category. He's a top 5 candidate for me, but I think there are people who just deserve it over him.

I'm still going with Shaq. He's shifted the face of the entire league, led his team to 50+ wins, and is overrall just being his dominant self. He's the most important player to his team of any of the 16 teams in the playoffs, IMO.

 

[Malnutritious]

Its hard to say hands down, you can't just overlook Shaq.

 

[Mavs41]

Th reason Nash doesn't get more cred is because he plays the game the right way. He doesn't try to start any controversy or make it all about him. If the guy was arrogant and was trying to always act crazy people would like him more. We love controversy so if the player isn't that type he's seen as boring and not that great.

 

[adarsh1]

come on guys we all know the real reason...(it's cuz he's canadian isn't it)

lol jk

 

[Minstrel]

Th reason Nash doesn't get more cred is because he plays the game the right way. He doesn't try to start any controversy or make it all about him. If the guy was arrogant and was trying to always act crazy people would like him more. We love controversy so if the player isn't that type he's seen as boring and not that great.

Exactly right. :clap: I mean, most of this season, people have been worshipping that thug-life quote-machine Tim Duncan. I mean, people can't see past his selfish, flashy game to the real MVPs.

It's all about contoversy with Duncan, that's the only reason people flock to him.

 

[Ps!ence_Fiction]

No, he's not going to win it because he doesn't deserve it, not because he isn't a big name player or doesn't create controversy. I think, and have thought this all year, that he is a product of the Phoenix system. His assist numbers are gaudy because they have so many offensive options and play great fast-break ball. Put Jason Kidd in the same situation and he would average at least the same assist numbers, but I could see him averaging better. Put Mike Bibby in that situation, and I think his numbers could be similar to Nash as well (Bibby is an underrated passer IMO). The team just needs a point guard that thinks pass-first, runs the break and can shoot. Nash just seems to be the perfect fit for that, but he doesn't dominate like an MVP. I think that all the players on the Suns need to be there for the team to function correctly. Amare, Marion and Nash are the most important, but I think every player plays a vital role in the teams success and they don't really have a best player. They all need to be there for the team to win like they have, without one key player, they wouldn't function the same, even with Nash in the line-up. The same can't really be said for someone like Shaq, if someone else is injured, he can take over and dominate. Just my two cents.

 

[Mavs41]

No, he's not going to win it because he doesn't deserve it, not because he isn't a big name player or doesn't create controversy. I think, and have thought this all year, that he is a product of the Phoenix system. His assist numbers are gaudy because they have so many offensive options and play great fast-break ball. Put Jason Kidd in the same situation and he would average at least the same assist numbers, but I could see him averaging better. Put Mike Bibby in that situation, and I think his numbers could be similar to Nash as well (Bibby is an underrated passer IMO). The team just needs a point guard that thinks pass-first, runs the break and can shoot. Nash just seems to be the perfect fit for that, but he doesn't dominate like an MVP. I think that all the players on the Suns need to be there for the team to function correctly. Amare, Marion and Nash are the most important, but I think every player plays a vital role in the teams success and they don't really have a best player. They all need to be there for the team to win like they have, without one key player, they wouldn't function the same, even with Nash in the line-up. The same can't really be said for someone like Shaq, if someone else is injured, he can take over and dominate. Just my two cents.

So it's just the system huh? Did you see what Nash did when he was with the Mavs? I guess that was all because of the system too. There are other ways to dominate besides putting up scoring. He dominates by penetrating into the lane and drawing defenders. He dominates by always making the perfect pass and breaking down a defense. His way of dominating the game is not seen by the casual fan. It's easy to just give the award to Shaq because he can push off and dunk. By the way, when the Suns don't have Nash they are a average team. Setting up the offense is not as easy as it seems. Only Kidd would put up the same numbers every game. When Amare was out last game Nash had a triple double. That seems to me like he was the one picking up the slack. When a player like Amare is out aned Nash does that it screams MVP. No matter how you look at it. Oh yea, that was also again A.I. so no excuses of a weak counterpart.

 

[tempe85]

If Nash took more shots he could easily average 20 PPG (close to what O'Neal and Duncan average). His FG% would drop, sure. But Probably no more than to 48% (he's at 51% now... and don't say it'd go any farther down because the dude is scoring 16+PPG currently). And if he did this then changed his name to Allen Iverson he'd probably recieve the award unanimously. However Nash is Nash and he'd rather create efficiency in the Phoenix system rather than look for his own shot. However as evidenced from today Nash can hold Phoenix on his shoulders. He shot 10-14 from the field, 4-5 from 3, handed out 11 assists, and scored 28 points. All the while Marion was sucking largely shooting the ball and Amare couldn't rebound the ball to save his life (he had 0 rebounds going into the final minute of the first half).

 

[Sad Mafioso]

Nash deserves as much credit for turning the Sun's around as Shaq does for making the Heat a contender. His influence is just as big as someone already mentioned. Look beyond the numbers(and nevermind he DOES have big numbers, like 50% for a guard which hasn't been done since Stockton's days, plus 11 assists on top). He leads the BEST team in the league. The Suns are nothing without Steve Nash though and most of the fan realize it..3-7 or something like that and losing badly each time while he was out.

If Nash goes down, the Suns are frickin' screwed.

Tonight against Minny, they went on a 22-2 run which was mainly due to Nash's absence and the erratic play from the bench. Then he came back in the 4th and scored 12 pts and made sum nifty passes to lead them to victory. If that's not having the ability to take over a game then I don't know what is.

What happened to the Lebronze for MVP. Where did they go anyways? Hating on Nash now?

 

[tempe85]

What happened to the Lebronze for MVP. Where did they go anyways? Hating on Nash now?

I don't even think LeBron's mother would pick him for league MVP now... he's supposed to be the team leader and all the Cavs have been doing is tanking for the stretch run. They're probably going to be lucky just to make the playoffs. And this is with another all-star in the lineup!

 

[The Krakken]

Exactly right. :clap: I mean, most of this season, people have been worshipping that thug-life quote-machine Tim Duncan. I mean, people can't see past his selfish, flashy game to the real MVPs.

It's all about contoversy with Duncan, that's the only reason people flock to him.

Great post. See, we agree again. ANd yes, I understand the "Context" with which you meant it. :biggrin:

 

[The Krakken]

So it's just the system huh? Did you see what Nash did when he was with the Mavs? I guess that was all because of the system too.

Do you really want to draw parallels between the Mavs and the Suns? One could easliy draw the conclusin that he's equally responsible for both teams inabilty to clamp down defensively too, by that logic.

Eidt: ANd please don't hand me the excuse that Nash tried to pawn off on me the other night, that they can't be a good defensive team because of the number of posessions their games have. I'd like to think that more posessions favor a FG% lower than the league average (ALL THINGS ELSE BEING EQUAL), not a higher one, as he alluded to.

Simply put, EVEN WITH good defenders in Amare Stoudamire, and Shawn Marion, the Suns dont defend very well as a team....and if they don't start, they won't beat the spurs with a healthy tim duncan, Homcourt advantage notwithstanding....

 

[quick]

Nash the MVP, hands down? Hands off. And I thought Jason Kidd was going to win the MVP that one year.

 

[The_Franchise]

Simply put, EVEN WITH good defenders in Amare Stoudamire, and Shawn Marion, the Suns dont defend very well as a team....and if they don't start, they won't beat the spurs with a healthy tim duncan, Homcourt advantage notwithstanding....

Besides Marion and Johnson, the Suns have no good defenders.

Nash needs talent around him to be successful. One can argue that all MVP's need this, but none of them rely on it as heavily as Nash. Not even close.

 

[tempe85]

Simply put, EVEN WITH good defenders in Amare Stoudamire, and Shawn Marion, the Suns dont defend very well as a team....and if they don't start, they won't beat the spurs with a healthy tim duncan, Homcourt advantage notwithstanding....

How did this suddenly become another "Suns can't win the championship" thread? You do realize that this is about a regular season award don't you?

 

[Sad Mafioso]

Besides Marion and Johnson, the Suns have no good defenders.

Nash needs talent around him to be successful. One can argue that all MVP's need this, but none of them rely on it as heavily as Nash. Not even close.

Yes because we know when Pat structured that team he didn't really think of what players would "fit" around Shaq. Damon Jones is just starting because he has a nice smile, not because he can have a field day from the 3pt line when he spots up after teams double Shaq. Eddie Jones as a cutter, spot up. Dwayne Wade was kept because he has nice wrist bands, he doesn't have any purpose within the system. [edit - not appropriate].

Shaq has talent around him, no questions asked. Perhaps they aren't as "flashy", potential studs, or big names as Nash has, but his sorrounding cast in theory is on par with Nash(i'm talking about production and their contributions)

 

[Mavs41]

Yes because we know when Pat structured that team he didn't really think of what players would "fit" around Shaq. Damon Jones is just starting because he has a nice smile, not because he can have a field day from the 3pt line when he spots up after teams double Shaq. Eddie Jones as a cutter, spot up. Dwayne Wade was kept because he has nice wrist bands, he doesn't have any purpose within the system. Hasleem, is that a terrorist averiging almost 10 boards a game?

Shaq has talent around him, no questions asked. Perhaps they aren't as "flashy", potential studs, or big names as Nash has, but his sorrounding cast in theory is on par with Nash(i'm talking about production and their contributions)

Maybe the best post I've seen regarding Shaq and the players around him. Excellent post!