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Discussion Starter #1
Los Angeles Clippers Grade: A-
Round 1: Al Thornton (14)

Round 2: Jared Jordan (45)

Analysis: The Clippers went bargain hunting and picked up two players who slipped further than they should have.

Thornton slipped because of his age (24) and questions about his wrist -- but he has an NBA-ready game. His arrival makes it appear that Corey Maggette is back on the trading block.

Jordan is one of the best pure point guards in this draft class. He's not big or athletic, but he has a sixth sense for seeing the floor the same way that injured Clippers point guard Shaun Livingston does.
Per ESPN Insider, seems like they actually know Thornton, and how ready he is to make an impact, unlike people here. Along with knowing how good of a PG Jordan could be.
 

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qross1fan said:
Per ESPN Insider, seems like they actually know Thornton, and how ready he is to make an impact, unlike people here. Along with knowing how good of a PG Jordan could be.
You got that right Q, people here don't seem to realize the kind of talent Thornton really possesses. I love both of these picks and concur with ESPN's draft day evaluation. :clap2:
 

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Can someone please explain to me why Clipper fans are so pissed about the Thornton pick? Clips get a solid scorer in Thornton, making it easier to move Maggette. Thornton is probably the most NBA ready player from the draft right now.
 

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HB said:
Can someone please explain to me why Clipper fans are so pissed about the Thornton pick? Clips get a solid scorer in Thornton, making it easier to move Maggette. Thornton is probably the most NBA ready player from the draft right now.
Infatuation with Nick Young, plain and simple. It's only on this board where Clipper fans are pissed, all of the ones I know personally are ecstatic.
 

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qross1fan said:
Infatuation with Nick Young, plain and simple. It's only on this board where Clipper fans are pissed, all of the ones I know personally are ecstatic.
It's so funny, I guess most of the posters here are die-hard Trojan fans or something. Doesn't make sense otherwise.
 

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HB said:
Can someone please explain to me why Clipper fans are so pissed about the Thornton pick? Clips get a solid scorer in Thornton, making it easier to move Maggette. Thornton is probably the most NBA ready player from the draft right now.
Thornton is gonna be an NBA small forward, he'll be 24 this season, has little upside....

Right now, we have Maggette (better), Tim Thomas (better), Qross (defender, but probably better overall), James Singleton (EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF PLAYER & buried on the bench), Yaroslav Korolev ("Potentially" better, age 20, never got a chance to play).

At the guard spots, we got: Sam Cassell (age 38), Cuttino Mobley (age 31) & some scrubs.

The Jordan pick was great, but we could've solidified both guard spots for the long term by picking Young (or Critteon, even Stuckey) + Jordan....instead we picked our deepest position.

Now we're gonna need to have a fire sale on Small Forwards if Thornton is gonna play... and if no trades for Thomas/Maggette work out? Then what?
 

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How does he have "little upside"? He's 24, not 34. An NBA-ready player who can step in and hit the ground running is a bad thing? Tim Thomas is a mediocre NBA player who has one skill: shooting. Q-Ross is a defensive specialist only, with little offensive ability. Singleton and Korolev were on their way out the door anyway, and not nearly as talented as Thornton is. Singleton was an energy player, but essentially a garbage man. He got most of his points off put-backs, he could not create plays the way Thornton can. Maybe a Maggette deal is now imminent, I don't know, but whether or not Corey is moved this team was still improved by both of their draft picks. The whole summer is still ahead of us and there are more moves to come, don't panic just yet.
 

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ESPN is full of it, and anyone who says that its factual thornton was a good pick for the clippers is full ot if as well. Could thornton end up being a star? Of course, but if you say its a guarantee, its all nonsense. LIke im sure some people when monta ellis was chosen in the second round, said he may be the next gilbert arenas. Would they have been correct? NO NO NO NO, because they were just basing it off of homerism or guessing. Monta ellis up until that point showed ZERO to say that he would be an arenas, otherwise he would have been picked higher.

Could thornton become a star? Yes, but it would not be based on the facts, that no one seems to want to try to question.

Fact 1: Singleton has proven himself when given the opportunity in this system, is around the same age, is a similar player as thornton's style, (less than half the salary) yet could not get playing time for this coach.

Fact 2: Thornton cannot play SG.

Fact 3: thornton will not take any PF minutes away from Elton Brand.

Fact 4: Thornton cannot play PG, nor center.

Fact 5: For a big part of the year (when cassell was healthy) Ross was the starter, maggette on the bench. This year, cassell supposedly is healthy. Ross figures to have a big role again..it would not surprise anyone if maggette was in dunleavvy's doghouse. So maggette some games, or most games we might see coming off of the bench again. Dunleavvy likes to use maggette at SF because of his lack of ball handling skills. It would be a fact to say that thornton does not take any SF minutes away from maggette.

Fact 6: Dunleavvy likes to insert Thomas as the first big off of the bench, and even at times play him together with kaman and brand, due to his 3 point shooting. Its a fact that thornton does not get minutes over thomas for 3 point shooting since hes no where close to be as good a shooter as thomas.

Fact 7: Drafting someone who could play either PF and/or center (Smith? Williams?) would have been guaranteed playing time, taking any aaron williams or paul davis minutes.

Fact 8: Drafting someone who could play either PG and/or SG (Bellineli? Stuckey? Crittenton?) would have been guaranteed playing time, inasmuch as cassell is currently the only signed PG on the roster, and Mobley being the only "true" SG on the roster.

Fact 9: Drafting someone who could play SG/SF (Young? Fernandez?) would have even challenged for a starting spot right away, as they would only need to beat out Mobley.

These are the facts, as the team stands right now.

Can thornton become great? Yes, but a lot of things that arent givens right now would have to happen:

1. Maggette would need to be injured most of the season.
2. Maggette would need to be traded.
3. One of the above would need to happen to brand or thomas.
4. Singleton needs to be let go for nothing (happened already) to get him at least a couple minutes of playing time.
5. He would have to get over his "weaknesses" which happen to be exactly the pet peeves dunleavvy has: ball handling, decision making, relying a lot on atheltiscm, no passing whatsover, turnovers.

Ive said it about 20 times, im not knocking al thornton. He could start on some teams in the league. Just as it standed on draft day, he was not the right choice for THIS team, THIS coach, THIS pick.
 

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He has little upside because in the last 10 years its not common for 25 year old rookies to show huge growth over their first few years, especially ones who werent superstars where they came from (college or europe). Lets take some of the best PF's and SF's in the game.

First lets do the biggest scoring SF;s according to espn:
Anthony, James, Carter, Tmac - all drafted an average like 4 years younger than thornton, all became stars way before 24 even.

Next batch: Howard, Artest, Deng, Miller
Howard drafted at age 22, when he was thorntons age he had been a starter what 3 years? and a decent one at that. Artest, Deng, Miller all drafted average 4 years younger than thornton, all solid vets or stars by the time they were thorntons age.

Next batch: Iguadola, Davis, Maggette, Smith
All drafted an average of 4+ years before thornton, all by the time they were thorntons age (some not even there yet), were solid starters. Were already reaching players who dont even start (maggette) on the clippers a lot, were out of "star" range, but lets keep going one more

Next batch: Jackson, Patterson, korver, Prince
all drafted an average of 2 years before thornton, all solid players either right away, or before they were thornton's age.

I could keep going, is there anyone even in the top 40 SF's who didnt start their career before thornton? You look at the PF list, youll find a similar situation.
 

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To me, that's simply a symptom of the recent swell of underclassmen entering the draft. It's becoming extremely uncommon for a player to stay in college for four years these days, let alone a player who redshirts and stays for five. Nearly all of the players you mentioned jumped for the pros after only one college season, or straight from the high school ranks, and a majority of them did not start immediately, nor did they make a significant impact on their respective teams during their first or second years. In this case, Thornton will not have to sit on the bench while he develops, he'll be ready to go from day one. This is what college is supposed to do, prepare it's players for the NBA within a 4 year structure. For that reason, I don't think your argument carries much weight. If you go back to the 80's you would find very different numbers as it pertains to the ages of incoming players. It's only a sign of the current times, but not in any way a rule-of-thumb as I see it. Go back twenty years and look at the 1987 draft as an example: the average age of a first round pick was 22-23 years old, as opposed to 2005 where the average decreased to between 20-21.
 

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Showtime87 said:
To me, that's simply a symptom of the recent swell of underclassmen entering the draft. It's becoming extremely uncommon for a player to stay in college for four years these days, let alone a player who redshirts and stays for five. Nearly all of the players you mentioned jumped for the pros after only one college season, or straight from the high school ranks, and a majority of them did not start immediately, nor did they make a significant impact on their respective teams during their first or second years. In this case, Thornton will not have to sit on the bench while he develops, he'll be ready to go from day one. This is what college is supposed to do, prepare it's players for the NBA within a 4 year structure. For that reason, I don't think your argument carries much weight. If you go back to the 80's you would find very different numbers as it pertains to the ages of incoming players. It's only a sign of the current times, but not in any way a rule-of-thumb as I see it. Go back twenty years and look at the 1987 draft as an example: the average age of a first round pick was 22-23 years old, as opposed to 2005 where the average decreased to between 20-21.
I swear to god, you've gotta be his agent, or cousin or something.

Anyways, I was 6 years old in 1987. The league has completely changed since then. So most of your argument is nonsense.

And you keep saying "he's ready to go".... go where? Explain to me how Maggette will get 30 minutes, Qross (Dunleavy's favorite) 20 minutes, and Tim Thomas 20 minutes??

For a guy that's "ready to go," how many minutes do you honestly think he'll get? Singleton & Korolev got like a combined 5 minutes during their tenure.
 

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yaw sound like female doggz...you need to shut the **** up and appreciate what we have...this is our best draft since before onowokandi. i love nick young too but thornton is a very good player that can improve. ****, he hasen't even played in the summer league yet...i know you guy's dont like me, but thrnton and diaz are gonna kill the summer league. j.j. is too...you must either be rich or a spoiled brat...vada
 

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MR. VADA said:
yaw sound like female doggz...you need to shut the **** up and appreciate what we have...this is our best draft since before onowokandi. i love nick young too but thornton is a very good player that can improve. ****, he hasen't even played in the summer league yet...i know you guy's dont like me, but thrnton and diaz are gonna kill the summer league. j.j. is too...you must either be rich or a spoiled brat...vada
Dont like you? I dont even know who the hell you are. Relax, we are allowed to express our frustrations, that's why they invented these forums. I am still going to root for the kid even though I dislike the pick. I hope that I am completely wrong about AT.
 

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DaFranchise said:
Dont like you? I dont even know who the hell you are. Relax, we are allowed to express our frustrations, that's why they invented these forums. I am still going to root for the kid even though I dislike the pick. I hope that I am completely wrong about AT.
Yep, I haven't heard any of the regular posters (including myself) badmouth thornton, we all generally agree he's a good player. He's good, but doesn't make the team any better because we're strong at the SF spot already.

It's the clip's management we're pissed at for making the WRONG choice, not the same as choosing a BAD player.
 

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leidout said:
I swear to god, you've gotta be his agent, or cousin or something.

Anyways, I was 6 years old in 1987. The league has completely changed since then. So most of your argument is nonsense.

And you keep saying "he's ready to go".... go where? Explain to me how Maggette will get 30 minutes, Qross (Dunleavy's favorite) 20 minutes, and Tim Thomas 20 minutes??

For a guy that's "ready to go," how many minutes do you honestly think he'll get? Singleton & Korolev got like a combined 5 minutes during their tenure.
I'm making sense, that's the difference. I was only refuting the argument using facts to back up my statement. Just because he's not 20 years old doesn't mean he won't be a good pro, that's what didn't make any sense. As for playing time, where were the minutes for Nick Young going to come from? Cuttino Mobley is still the starting SG as far as I know.
 

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Showtime87 said:
I'm making sense, that's the difference. I was only refuting the argument using facts to back up my statement. Just because he's not 20 years old doesn't mean he won't be a good pro, that's what didn't make any sense. As for playing time, where were the minutes for Nick Young going to come from? Cuttino Mobley is still the starting SG as far as I know.
You ignored my question about where Thornton's minutes were going to come from. Please answer, as it's very valid.

Mobley will be 32, he's played thru nagging injuries most of the last 2 seasons. The reason he did this is because there is no competent backup at SG, with Nick Young playing about 18 minutes this season (so mobley can play 30), then the next season his minutes will increase and might even start.

There, i've answered your question, now please explain how many minutes you expect Thornton to play & where they will come from, since you believe this is such a great pick.
 

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Clips fans don't like the pick because Thornton is a poor fit. He would have been a much better fit on the Lakers and Crittenton on the Clippers.
 

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yup. amazing. singleton probably the superior player, already knows the system, has been a pro 3 years, and was like on a 600,000 dollar contract. So we waste a lottery pick, let singleton go for nothing, and are going to pay 2 million or whatever the 14th pick gets for a guy who, as a singleton clone will not get much burn.

And instead of getting a gasol or grey who probably could make the team, since they could then dump williams or davis, they get jordan. I would have liked to see them trade a future second at least to get one of those guys in addition to jordan.
 
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