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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think Pat Ewing Jr. has some skills, he is a wonderful athlete, quick, long and has a good feel for the game. In time if he puts some meat on those bones and maybe grows a inch or two he could be a very solid looking prospect.

And speaking of Indiana prospects Bracey Wright is easily one of the best all around shooters in the nation. Has a breautiful stroke.


It would be a crime if Kenneth Lowe does not get drafted, a kid with that kind of defensive skill and those quick of feet has to get a change in the Association.
 

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As a huge Purdue fan, I don't see how you could possibly think Lowe is NBA material.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
As a huge Purdue fan, I don't see how you could possibly think Lowe is NBA material.
One word, he can defend! Since when were defensively skilled guards not wanted in the NBA? He will get a shot on a NBA team. Raja Bell, Tony Delk, Jason Hart, Chris Jefferies, Bo Outlaw, and Eric Snow. The only reason these players are in the NBA or got a shot in the NBA and stayed around enough to show their skills is because they can defend. Raja Bell would have never made the league if he could not defend. Thus proving if you can defend you will get a chance in the NBA, its their job to make the most of that chance and I think Lowe will do that.
 

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Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
One word, he can defend! Since when were defensively skilled guards not wanted in the NBA? He will get a shot on a NBA team. Raja Bell, Tony Delk, Jason Hart, Chris Jefferies, Bo Outlaw, and Eric Snow. The only reason these players are in the NBA or got a shot in the NBA and stayed around enough to show their skills is because they can defend. Raja Bell would have never made the league if he could not defend. Thus proving if you can defend you will get a chance in the NBA, its their job to make the most of that chance and I think Lowe will do that.
I don't think Tony Delk should be on your list. He was a near lotto pick and one hell of an offensive player at UK - I don't think his defence gave him his shot in the league.

Chris Jeffries got drafted in part because of his defensive abilities. But they have nothing to do with him playing in the NBA right now - it is his guaranteed contract.



As for the rest of your list you are right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't think Tony Delk should be on your list. He was a near lotto pick and one hell of an offensive player at UK - I don't think his defence gave him his shot in the league.

Chris Jeffries got drafted in part because of his defensive abilities. But they have nothing to do with him playing in the NBA right now - it is his guaranteed contract.
Those are the players in the second category I talked about, the ones that are able to stay in the NBA because they can defend.
 

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Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
One word, he can defend! Since when were defensively skilled guards not wanted in the NBA? He will get a shot on a NBA team. Raja Bell, Tony Delk, Jason Hart, Chris Jefferies, Bo Outlaw, and Eric Snow. The only reason these players are in the NBA or got a shot in the NBA and stayed around enough to show their skills is because they can defend. Raja Bell would have never made the league if he could not defend. Thus proving if you can defend you will get a chance in the NBA, its their job to make the most of that chance and I think Lowe will do that.
That's not enough to make him an NBA player. You have to remember that with these great defensive college teams like Purdue and Wisconsin, it's the system, not the players, that is the most important thing, and it's not a system that would work in the NBA. Take a player like Lowe and make him defend quicker, taller, more athletic NBA players one-and-one, most likely he will fail.

Remember that guy Mike Kelley who led Wisconsin to the Final Four a couple of years back? He was on the Bucks' preseason team for awhile but he got cut before he even had a chance to show his stuff. He was probably the best college defender I've ever seen, certainly much better than Lowe, but Wisconsin played a slow-down system (like Purdue does), and it doesn't translate to the NBA level so he was a failure as a pro. Lowe won't be drafted.

Lots of these Big Ten players are heady players with a lot of heart, but hardly any of them have the physical talent to get them drafted in the first round or probably even the second round. You always seem to overrate them severely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Remember that guy Mike Kelley who led Wisconsin to the Final Four a couple of years back? He was on the Bucks' preseason team for awhile but he got cut before he even had a chance to show his stuff. He was probably the best college defender I've ever seen, certainly much better than Lowe, but Wisconsin played a slow-down system (like Purdue does), and it doesn't translate to the NBA level so he was a failure as a pro. Lowe won't be drafted.
OK Lowe is much more athletic than Mike Kelley. And since when could someone teach foot speed? If teaching defense is just the system why couldn't any basketballl player be a great defender if it is so easy to teach with the right teacher? I don't think Purdue is that great of defensive team also. Just like good "offensive systems" have good offensive players it doesn't mean that their success on offense is because of the system. Part of it is that, but they are players with offensive skills put in a position to succeed in a offensive system. Players are players and systems do not have that much effect on talent, they might in football and they might sometimes in basketball but for the most part if a player can play it is because he has the ability to do so.


Lots of these Big Ten players are heady players with a lot of heart, but hardly any of them have the physical talent to get them drafted in the first round or probably even the second round. You always seem to overrate them severely.
There is something called a role player, and without those players NBA teams will not be successful.

Sure Lowe is a a super talent, but I would be surprised if he doesn't get a chance in the NBA.


You underrate the value of defensively talented players on a basketball team.
 

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Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
I think Pat Ewing Jr. has some skills, he is a wonderful athlete, quick, long and has a good feel for the game. In time if he puts some meat on those bones and maybe grows a inch or two he could be a very solid looking prospect.

And speaking of Indiana prospects Bracey Wright is easily one of the best all around shooters in the nation. Has a breautiful stroke.
I like Ewing Jr as a SF prospect. He has great size for the 3 (around 6'8 215) and is balanced.

I think Bracey Wright will end up just like AJ Guyton. Bounce around for a couple years, then it's Europe for him.
 

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Damn you for making me hate on the best player on my favorite college team. ;)

Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
OK Lowe is much more athletic than Mike Kelley. And since when could someone teach foot speed?
So what? Athleticism is not the same thing as defense, as proven by the fact that Mike Kelley is ten times the defender that Ken Lowe is despite being far less athletic than Lowe, who is himself far less athletic then almost every NBA player. Players like Ricky Davis and Quentin Richardson are very athletic and they are atrocious defenders. I think defense is more about being a smart player and giving maximum effort, than it is about athleticism (although that is clearly helpful too).

You can't make a paraplegic into a great defender, but I believe anyone with decent speed, a high basketball IQ, a great work ethic, and the right coach CAN be a great defender at the college level. The college game doesn't have the same defensive rules that the NBA does and the game goes much slower. If you watch the best defensive teams, they can almost draw their opponents into a lull. In the NBA that would never happen.

You underrate the value of defensively talented players on a basketball team.
Blasphemy! My four favorite NBA players are Ron Artest, James Posey, Andrei Kirilenko, and Ben Wallace. Guess what they have in common?

Lowe is not that kind of player. There are plenty of defensive specialists in the NBDL, unless you are Big Ben you need to have more skills and talent than that to have a place in the league. And remember that Big Ben himself s only in the league because he has a better work ethic than anyone.

I'll be bumping this up when he gets cut in the preseason (if he even makes a roster). Hopefully he'll take Purdue deep into the NCAAs before that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Lowe is not that kind of player. There are plenty of defensive specialists in the NBDL, unless you are Big Ben you need to have more skills and talent than that to have a place in the league. And remember that Big Ben himself s only in the league because he has a better work ethic than anyone.
For someone that says you must be a good enough athlete to get drafted in the NBA (and I agree to a point), you obviously don't know what a athlete looks like. To say Ben Wallace is only in the league because he works harder than anyone is bull. Ben Wallace is a powerful, quick athletic athlete with great strength, jumping ability and size. To say he only gets by on heart and work ethic is not correct.


Did I say Lowe would be a great defender in the NBA? No but I do believe he has a chance to make a team because he is a good defender. Again he is better than Mike Kelley because he is more athletic, and I do not believe there are defensive guards in the NBDL like Lowe. What Omar Cook, Eric Barkely, yeah right.

We will see when the time comes.
 

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This is hilarious, b/c Ozzy was saying Dwayne Wade wasn't going to be a good pro defender, and that his college success didn't translate to good NBA defensive skills. What doesn't Wade have that Lowe has? I'm too lazy to search the thread, but it's there somewhere.

Hilarious. Almost as funny as saying Ben Wallace has size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
So I should call a 6-9 240 pound man that is built like a brick small? Ok now he doesn't have guns like Screech over there but I would say he is very physically talented and muscular for his size. Oh but he just gets by on hustle and has no athletic talent what so ever:laugh:


When did I say Lowe was a great defender and would be one in the NBA? No I said he should get drafted just on his defensive skills alone, way to read.


So Springsteen what do you think of Ewing, Wright, Lowe etc? Or are you just going to make the quick funny comment and leave?

This is hilarious, b/c Ozzy was saying Dwayne Wade wasn't going to be a good pro defender, and that his college success didn't translate to good NBA defensive skills. What doesn't Wade have that Lowe has? I'm too lazy to search the thread, but it's there somewhere.
Going to bring up the past now? Ok how about that Jay Williams?:yes:
 

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Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
So I should call a 6-9 240 pound man that is built like a brick small? Ok now he doesn't have guns like Screech over there but I would say he is very physically talented and muscular for his size. Oh but he just gets by on hustle and has no athletic talent what so ever:laugh:


When did I say Lowe was a great defender and would be one in the NBA? No I said he should get drafted just on his defensive skills alone, way to read.


So Springsteen what do you think of Ewing, Wright, Lowe etc? Or are you just going to make the quick funny comment and leave?

Going to bring up the past now? Ok how about that Jay Williams?:yes:
It wasn't really a funny comment. So if you're going to criticize me for reading, make sure you are flawless. Maybe I should bring up Jay Will. Where should I go with that? The fact that you predicted he'd destroy himself in an motor vehicle accident? Seriously, anyone who brings up Jay Will as a bust is just flat ignorant. He was a disapointment last year and had no chance his second year. To make some sort of final judgment on how great or awful proves a lack of smarts more then anything. It proves you don't understand a lot of simple things about basketball, like, rookies improve, running the point is tough, running the point for a coach who doesn't know what he is doing is tough etc. etc. I could go on and on about what it proves. And to put a smilie face at the end? I hope that was some sort of shot at me and not some sort of classeless "I told you so". He almost died!

What do I think about Ewing? I think he's overrated. I think he's gotten a lot of publicity and credit b/c of who his dad is. Is he good? Certainly. Will he get a shot in the pros? More than likely. He just doesn't do it for me though.

Wright is good, but a lot like Reddick from Duke, he's very streaky. But he's got a good handle. He's a very good player, but will he be a good pro? I don't know. Nobody talks about how Indiana doesn't create good pros, like they do for Duke, but I mean, maybe he'll be a Hoosier bust. It's really hard to predict.

Perhaps it was that I wasn't clear enough, b/c I should have assumed you would have taken the easy way out and figured I was making a direct comparison b/w the two players Wade and Lowe. I wasn't, so lets not be retarded and try to deflate my point with one that doesn't make sense. (Re-reading I was a little vague and that's my fault). I was saying that both have considerable athletic tools, both are quick enough, and that even though Wade was a defensive star you didn't give him any credit. I was more pointing to the inaccuracy, or the intense subjectivity of the Ozzy talent meter. Basically, after watching you post, it comes down to this:

- If a player is "under the radar" he is going to be a superstar
- If a player is big in college, he's going to be a bust, even though he's proven, and has all of the same attributes as the "under the radar" guy.

It's this fantastic philosophy which had you touting Rodney White as arriving finally, when last year he had a triple double, whereas, when Jay Will had one months earlier, against Jason Kidd, it was just a fluke, no big deal.

So that's my take. But seriously, if you're going to put me down for reading, or any sort of intellectual folly, perhaps spelling mistakes, you have to be flawless. And really, I could build up a healthy post count, and some would argue that I have, going around pointing out spelling mistakes, gramatical errors or logical mistakes that you have made.

As for being a star defender. If it is your D that's keeping you in the league...

And I would have figured you as a huge Screech fan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
- If a player is "under the radar" he is going to be a superstar
So talk about players that everyone else talks about, no that is easy to do. Anyone can repeat things they have heard on Sports Center. I talk about players "under the radar" because it is kind of interesting to try and find the sleeper players in the draft. Oh but I should start a post saying, um Okafor is good and um duh. Even though his size is some what questionable and his toughness down low worries me. He is a versitile defender but is he a guy that can bang down low with the big boys?

- If a player is big in college, he's going to be a bust, even though he's proven, and has all of the same attributes as the "under the radar" guy.
Thats pretty closed minded of you to say. I feel every player that is great in college is a bust? Ok just because it happens all the time with Duke and I have pointed that out doesn't mean I think that way about all successful college athletes. Hell I believe Duhon, Williams and Deng could be very solid pro athletes, and I always said Boozer would be good in the NBA as well. I also said Dajuan would be great also, and I brought up Jay Williams not because he got in a motorcycle accident but because he was a huge flop in his rookie year. To see a player that could so call "shoot" in college take a total "U turn", that is pathetic. Its obvious he was way to dependent on coach K to motivate and teach him.

Funny you mention Wade, yes I do feel he is overrated as a defender, but I was also one of the few people to say he should play PG. And guess what, he is playing PG and since he is physically stronger than most PG's that improves his defensive abilities, but I still feel he could not stop top SG's night in and night out. But it is good to see him playing the PG spot.

What do I think about Ewing? I think he's overrated. I think he's gotten a lot of publicity and credit b/c of who his dad is. Is he good? Certainly. Will he get a shot in the pros? More than likely. He just doesn't do it for me though.
Thats fine, see that works a lot better than some wise crack.

But I think he has a ton of potential considering his wonderful athletic ability, quickness and size. Just needs to get the playing time and experience to show his skills.


Wright is good, but a lot like Reddick from Duke, he's very streaky. But he's got a good handle. He's a very good player, but will he be a good pro? I don't know. Nobody talks about how Indiana doesn't create good pros, like they do for Duke, but I mean, maybe he'll be a Hoosier bust. It's really hard to predict.
That is irrelvant what college he went to. But I do bring up Duke's horrible track record of NBA players because its pretty much the only thing someone can do to rip on Duke, considering. But again I don't look at what college they go to and playing at that college means success for tem as a pro, it has a little to do with it but not that much.
 

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Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
So I should call a 6-9 240 pound man that is built like a brick small?
So Ben Wallace is 6-9 now??? Please...I've seen a picture of him next to Paul Pierce and they were equal in height...Ben Wallace is 6-6...Ask anybody who watches Piston's basketball regularly...
 

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bracey wright, chris bosh, ike diogu, daniel horton, deron williams, bryan hopkins- a hell of a draft class for dallas texas
 
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