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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Let's count out all our varied emotions throughout the season:

1) Bosh seemed to be struggling at first...but now has become exceptionally solid and an invaluable component to our team.

2) Jose was on fire at the beginning, but has cooled down a bit, probably due to Mitchell's retarded rotations.

3) After Stephen A. Smith et al. got even Raptors' fans hopes down on CV3, he has been proving EVERYONE wrong so far. Again, needs more minutes.

4) Jalen Rose was thought by us in the beginning of the season to be an important role model to the youngsters and just be a savvy veteran in games. He's proven to be none of them, and simply put, he's not a very good basketball player at all.

5) Pre-season...we thought Hoffa would carry his stellar performance to the regulat season. He didn't and then all the Araujo bashing started again. The last 3 games have helped him gain some repect back however, and can only increase his confidence.

6) The Mike James for Alston trade was at first thought to be 'not bad'. It's proven to be great. This guy is a great scorer and an excellent drive and dish guy.

7) Mo Pete...well he's just been his inconsistent self as usual. Great in the first couple of games of the season, not so good in the last couple.

8) I think we're all still wondering...what's going on with E. Will?

9) Sorry guys, I can't believe I forgot to write this one...probably because it's so blatantly obvious. At first, people didn't really hate or like Mitchell as coach, despite our continuous losses. Now...his horrible decision making as a coach has all of us screaming in disgust :(
 

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The season hasn't deviated much from what I anticipated - Mitchell's coaching mistakes are more glaring this year than I'd like tho' - I do think that the core has excellent potential: Bosh, Villaneuva, Calderon, Graham - and the prospect of Ukic and Slokar in uniform also is a positive - if MSLE allows Babcock to carry this plan to fruition, the campaign to vie legitimately for a championship should be around 2007/2008 - 2011 - here's hoping that it does indeed come to pass...
 

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the season going exactly how I thought it go the raps battling for the #1 draft pick but at the same time they are better than I thought they be there not rolling over for teams and there playing hard giving 100% as long as there doing that what more can you ask for I can't get mad at that even though a few games could of went the raps way (sea,la,was, etc)we just gotta accept the fact that the raps ain't on the level of the teams there playing bosh has been a bright spot who is finally putting up the numbers I thought he should and CV be a surprise along with jose
 

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I would never have guessed that the Raptors would sport such a wretched record at this point in the season. Are they playing worse than I thought? No. They SHOULD have beaten Seattle, Phoenix and the Clippers. Maybe Boston. You tack on three additional wins and suddenly the Raptors aren't 1-11, they are 4-8, which is still bad but at least not disastrously bad.
 

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Anger for Mitchell, I have no idea what he is trying to do. And anger towards Jalen as well. But happiness for Bosh and the other young fellas in that they are playing well.
 

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my thoughts on the original post:

1) After twelve games, I think Chris Bosh has proven that he's a valuable player to this team. He is also developing into a hard-nose defender and a leader (ie. accepting responsibility for the loss against Phoenix), and he is getting there.

2) Calderon aka. El commandante, in my opinion, is dealing with conditioning issues, as he's had to cover some huge opponents at the point. Take for example,
game1: Gilbert Arenas
game2: Jason Kidd
game3: Chauncey Billups
game4: Deron Williams <- good match-up
game5: Luke Ridnour
game6: Allen Iverson
game7: Allen Iverson (AI back2back AI = fatigue GALOUR)
game8: Delonte West <- good match-up
game9: Gary Payton
game10: Steve Nash
game11: Sam Cassell

^ Tell me that isnt enough to cool down a man on fire?

3) CV31 is making me drool when I sleep dreaming of 2007-2008 when the Raptors, almost fully developed, takes over the East.

4) Jalen Rose = most useless man alive (see my reactions in Toronto Raptors vs. LA Clippers)

5) When you play for 5 minutes, then get yanked off, can anyone's confidence be stellar? No. I'm happy Mitchell is seing the light.

6) I'm actually more happy that Alston is GONE rather than Mike James is here.
a) Alston would be a terrible mentor for Calderon
b) As if the Mitchell wasn't more pissed, maybe he'd go nuts and start Chris Bosh at shooting guard.
c) The Raptors were never in dire need of offense, just someone with direction and experience, something Rafer Alston could never possess, ever.

7) Mo Pete = runner up for most useless man alive (once again, see reactions to TOR vs LAC)

8) I wish Eric Williams was here, at least he could foul out and say that he gave an honest night of work in with hardnose defense, direction and making paul pierce go 3 for 80 from the field. (i wish)
 

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M James- decent pg, sees the floor pretty well and plays good hustle def

MoPete and Rose- Both are role players who are currently playing the wrong role in toronto. I think Jalen specifically could flourish somewhere else. Trade or Fire them though because they are adding nothing to the situation in Toronto at present.

Bosh- young star, I am wondering if his game is going to progress or regress if Toronto keeps on like they are going.

Everyone else- Young core of talent who lacks veteran leadership and nba experience. Again if Toronto continues to tank these guys may never develop. I'll never believe people learn much by losing.


In short the team is ugly. You can always do what detroit did to turn itself back around though. Bring in alot of role players with chips on their shoulders who can work together and build from there.
 

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DetroitDiesel said:
In short the team is ugly. You can always do what detroit did to turn itself back around though. Bring in alot of role players with chips on their shoulders who can work together and build from there.
I'd say the guys in Detroit are better than just role players.

Either way, the Raptors aren't going to take that approach, mostly because it's just not practical for the situation we're in.
 

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Anyway, this is the first year in a while that we've actually been naturally terrible. The Bosh tank season was triggered by injuries, and it showed in how the seasons after that we won 33 games. So for the last four years we've had teams that weren't good enough to make the playoffs (or in the 02 case get past the first round) and weren't bad enough to assure us a top pick. This year it looks like we're finally going to be getting another top-5 pick to put beside Bosh, and of course another role player with Denver's pick to add to the team.

I wasn't expecting us to start this bad, but I'm really not upset.
 

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feelings...

expectations were not high for this season, but optimism will always be alive...

first game of the season, we showed we have bite, but defence was the issue...

after the Detroit embarasment, and just before the Miami win, we've actually been improving, keep in mind our defence is not there yet, but the hustle and tanasity is....

teams are not taking us for granted and not assuming it's a guarenteed 'W' when they face us, ...

i'm happy with the progress of this young and inexperienced team, obviously goes without saying that, I wish we had a few more wins to show for it, but the last 4 games are very encouraging and seems like we're on the right on track...and keep in mind we've been competitive against fairly good teams...miami, phoenix, and the clips (yes i said the clips)
 

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shookem said:
The plan is in motion, the only question is: how does all this losing affect our chance of signing Bosh?
Technically, it would increase it. The worse we are this season, the better our pick. The better our pick is, the better the team we can build around Bosh. The better Bosh's team is, the more wins we get. The more wins we get, the more Bosh will want to stay here.
 

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Budweiser_Boy said:
Technically, it would increase it. The worse we are this season, the better our pick. The better our pick is, the better the team we can build around Bosh. The better Bosh's team is, the more wins we get. The more wins we get, the more Bosh will want to stay here.
Technically, yes. practically...

I'm not sure where to post this but Uros Slokar had a great game the other night.
13 points, 5 rebs in 18 minutes.
Treviso, Slokar stats.
Benetton will hopefully start using him at little more, looking good though.
 

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Budweiser_Boy said:
Practically... unless a ridiculous situation arises where you can just swoop in and take advantage, ala Vince Carter, Rasheed Wallace trades, rebuilding is the most practical way to get a winner.
all I mean is this franchise has already had three cornerstone players demand trades or leave, it would be wise to at least acknowledge the possibility that Bosh could be taking this lossing in a bad way.
and would you say the Heat rebuilt their team or made trades and signed players? Detriot? Lots of teams have became contenders in ways other then rebuilding through the draft.
 

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shookem said:
all I mean is this franchise has already had three cornerstone players demand trades or leave, it would be wise to at least acknowledge the possibility that Bosh could be taking this lossing in a bad way.
and would you say the Heat rebuilt their team or made trades and signed players? Detriot? Lots of teams have became contenders in ways other then rebuilding through the draft.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying we should just shove it in his face and then leave him... but there's not much else we can do right now. The most we can do is surround him with players who can play well off of him, players who want to play with him, and players that work hard and shed light of the game to him in a positive way.

So far, under the Babcock tenure, I think we've done that. Right now all we can do is watch it play out and hope for the best, but I have a good feeling he'll stay.

As far as rebuilding without using the draft, this team was pretty much handicapped when it came to other possibilities. To re-tool with trades you need assets. Our best asset was a Vince Carter who tanked and made his value plummet because of that and various injuries, so that alone tied our hands. Not only that, but overpaying AD and JYD (later on Jalen), plus Alvin's injuries, plus other random quick fix signings took away that option for us.

If we could re-build without using the draft I'd be all for it... using the draft just extends the process out way longer... but we just don't have the resources for it.
 
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