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thats right because Eddy's not gonna clean up squat. A 7 foot apparition that catches solid objects like Casper the friendly ghost
 

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First of all, Jerome Williams is not a SF. There's no way he's going to be able to keep up with Ron Artest. And when Artest's quickness is combined with 250 pounds of muscle, you can see why JYD didn't have much of a chance. Jerome was able to slow down AK47 in Utah because he could muscle him. You don't out-muscle Artest.

Curry...23 points and 7 boards...nice numbers for fantasy leaguers. But against the Pacers who attack the basket relentlessly, Eddy was called for two fouls in 31 minutes. Truth is, he isn't the only one who should have been chewed out for playing soft defensively. Though there were plenty of fouls called on the Bulls (23), only Hinrich, with 5, found himself in any kind of foul trouble.

Even though Eddy has started to put up some decent numbers lately, are the Bulls a better ballclub because of it? Curry's scored 20+ points in 6 of the Bulls last 7 games. And what's the Bulls record during this "resurgence?" 1-6.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
First of all, Jerome Williams is not a SF. There's no way he's going to be able to keep up with Ron Artest. And when Artest's quickness is combined with 250 pounds of muscle, you can see why JYD didn't have much of a chance. Jerome was able to slow down AK47 in Utah because he could muscle him. You don't out-muscle Artest.

Curry...23 points and 7 boards...nice numbers for fantasy leaguers. But against the Pacers who attack the basket relentlessly, Eddy was called for two fouls in 31 minutes. Truth is, he isn't the only one who should have been chewed out for playing soft defensively. Though there were plenty of fouls called on the Bulls (23), only Hinrich, with 5, found himself in any kind of foul trouble.

Even though Eddy has started to put up some decent numbers lately, are the Bulls a better ballclub because of it? Curry's scored 20+ points in 6 of the Bulls last 7 games. And what's the Bulls record during this "resurgence?" 1-6.
I agree

When was the last time either Chandler or Curry simply took a charge? We sit around and talk about how Chandler, for instance is a game changer on the defensive end. But in nearly 3 years, as he ever taken a charge? Has Curry? its one thing to bite on every pump fake to get 2 blks in a game. Its another thing to play defense the way its suppose to be played. Detroit won 2 titles while averaging a league worst blks per game cause they knew how to get into a guys shirt. We just know how to make the fancy play. While Emeka Okafor is a great shotblocker, this guy actually gets into peoples mugs, gets physical and will cut off a driver by stepping into out and taking a charge, one of the many lost arts of basketball (outside of Shane Battier who is probably the best ever at it)
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
First of all, Jerome Williams is not a SF. There's no way he's going to be able to keep up with Ron Artest. And when Artest's quickness is combined with 250 pounds of muscle, you can see why JYD didn't have much of a chance. Jerome was able to slow down AK47 in Utah because he could muscle him. You don't out-muscle Artest.
JYD isn't really a PF either. Given that Artest's game is out-muscling people, I would have thought a SF/PF like JYD would be the ideal person to guard him. I was wrong. But I will fall over in my chair the first time I hear Skiles or Paxson criticize a guy over 25 on the Bulls for anything. Heck, even when Jalen was here, it was rare to hear complaints about him in the press.

Is there something about guys under 25 that they magically respond better to public criticism tham do guys over 25? Has public criticism practically every game been proven to be a foolproof method of getting young guys to improve?

There is nothing wrong with occasional public criticism to get a player's attention. But in my opinon, constant public criticism of young players by coaches or GMs is simply lazy coaching and lazy GMing. Coaching and GMing through the press may be a quick fix once in awhile, but go to that well every day and sooner or later that well is gonna be dry.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!


JYD isn't really a PF either. Given that Artest's game is out-muscling people, I would have thought a SF/PF like JYD would be the ideal person to guard him. I was wrong. But I will fall over in my chair the first time I hear Skiles or Paxson criticize a guy over 25 on the Bulls for anything. Heck, even when Jalen was here, it was rare to hear complaints about him in the press.

Is there something about guys under 25 that they magically respond better to public criticism tham do guys over 25? Has public criticism practically every game been proven to be a foolproof method of getting young guys to improve?

There is nothing wrong with occasional public criticism to get a player's attention. But in my opinon, constant public criticism by coaches or GMs of young players is simply lazy coaching and lazy GMing. Coaching and GMing through the press may be a quick fix once in awhile, but go to that well every day and sooner or later that well is gonna be dry.
and another good point
 

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you guys , you know i respect your anti-Skiles opinions when they aren't petty. So its all good.

with respect, you guys are not really getting petty, but i think you are giving Skiles a bad rap on his post mortems. I have seen every losing teams coach in the league give the obligatory post mortem litany of frustration after every loss.
The worst teams get it every game, because they generally play like Shi+ every game.
From Mike D'Antoni, to Frank Johnson, to Bill Cartwright, to whoever is coaching the Bulls, Magic, Hawks and Wizards this week. Every season. Every loser.
Its the same bloodletting. Its the same song, its the same tone of voice, its the same drill.
If you didn't realize it, there are reporters in the coach's face after every blowout, baiting you and gewtting you when your BP is skyrocketing immediately after humiliation. Truthfully, all coach's do the same damn thing


Now i can understand that some of you have a problem with Skiles coaching. Having a problem with the Bulls coach is a modern day tradition around Chicago. Its predictable. I don't agree with it (the lack of talent and effort and preparation and health scrambles everything IMO), but it is what it is. Nobody wants to blame the players for screwing up game plans, or to hold them accountable for their play. Nobody wants to admit they overrate a guys contribution, or admit that maybe just maybe the coach has better insights and vantage points than we do.

However, you guys are taking cheap shots criticizing every single thing Skiles does. He's only doing and saying what any coach in the league would. I'm positive.

This is the tired tactics that frustrate everybody who disagrees on anything, from politics, to religion, and on to sports. If you don't like a guy, you say he's rotten from the bottom to the top. Theres no in between. There seems to be no room to admit anything is OK about the guy. No effort to try and be objective, or to understand that there are reasons things happen that we aren't looking for or stuff we don't know about.
......thats BS
 

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I watched the game last night and eddy and AD were the only ones who showed up. Williams played awful and was lettiing artest by at will. hinrich shot was off and JC was well JC, some great monents and some awful ones.

The issue is not eddy's D the issue is the bull simply do not have enough NBA players. We have a long list of soft marginal players who frankly offer very little to this team.

Who, well until chandler is ready to play 30 minutes or so this team has four legitamite basketball players. hinrich (who will not really be ready every night until next year), JC, AD, and curry. That is it. The rest could all be cut and replaced next year and no one would notice.

The pacers have a bench full of players who know the game. It has been the same thing most of the last 10 games. We have a good 1st quarter and the bench comes in and suddenly the whole momentum of the game changes and we are playing from behind.

david
 

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One other point. In order to beat good teams like Indiana, we need to at least hold our in match-ups of our best player (Hinrich) and a weak starter (JYD) versus Indiana's second best player (Artest) and a weak starter (Tinsley). Well, in last night's game that match-up produced the following results.

Hinrich/JYD: 57 min, 9 pts, 4-14 FG, 0-4 3PT, 1-2 FT, 8 rb, 11 as, 4 to, 7 st, 1 blk, 8 pf

Artest/Tinsley: 56 min, 36 pts, 13-25 FG, 4-9 3PT, 6-8 FT, 4 rb, 6 as, 5 to, 5 st, 1 pf

Curry & Davis held their own against O'Neal & Foster, while Crawford outplayed Miller (although not by as much as we probably needed). We got killed by bench play.
 

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Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
I watched the game last night and eddy and AD were the only ones who showed up. Williams played awful and was lettiing artest by at will. hinrich shot was off and JC was well JC, some great monents and some awful ones.

The issue is not eddy's D the issue is the bull simply do not have enough NBA players. We have a long list of soft marginal players who frankly offer very little to this team.

Who, well until chandler is ready to play 30 minutes or so this team has four legitamite basketball players. hinrich (who will not really be ready every night until next year), JC, AD, and curry. That is it. The rest could all be cut and replaced next year and no one would notice.

The pacers have a bench full of players who know the game. It has been the same thing most of the last 10 games. We have a good 1st quarter and the bench comes in and suddenly the whole momentum of the game changes and we are playing from behind.

david
that sounds reasonable. I noticed you somehow found a way not to blame everything on the coach. Very fair insights david
 

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Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
you guys , you know i respect your anti-Skiles opinions when they aren't petty. So its all good.

with respect, you guys are not really getting petty, but i think you are giving Skiles a bad rap on his post mortems. I have seen every losing teams coach in the league give the obligatory post mortem litany of frustration after every loss.
The worst teams get it every game, because they generally play like Shi+ every game.
From Mike D'Antoni, to Frank Johnson, to Bill Cartwright, to whoever is coaching the Bulls, Magic, Hawks and Wizards this week. Every season. Every loser.
Its the same bloodletting. Its the same song, its the same tone of voice, its the same drill.
If you didn't realize it, there are reporters in the coach's face after every blowout, baiting you and gewtting you when your BP is skyrocketing immediately after humiliation. Truthfully, all coach's do the same damn thing


Now i can understand that some of you have a problem with Skiles coaching. Having a problem with the Bulls coach is a modern day tradition around Chicago. Its predictable. I don't agree with it (the lack of talent and effort and preparation and health scrambles everything IMO), but it is what it is. Nobody wants to blame the players for screwing up game plans, or to hold them accountable for their play. Nobody wants to admit they overrate a guys contribution, or admit that maybe just maybe the coach has better insights and vantage points than we do.

However, you guys are taking cheap shots criticizing every single thing Skiles does. He's only doing and saying what any coach in the league would. I'm positive.

This is the tired tactics that frustrate everybody who disagrees on anything, from politics, to religion, and on to sports. If you don't like a guy, you say he's rotten from the bottom to the top. Theres no in between. There seems to be no room to admit anything is OK about the guy. No effort to try and be objective, or to understand that there are reasons things happen that we aren't looking for or stuff we don't know about.
......thats BS
Fleetwood, I have not posted much of late, but I have been (and continue to be) a big Skiles supporter. That said, I think part of what we pay the coach for is to optimally use the press, even when he is frustrated. I do agree that some coaches are better than others at doing so.
 

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well i see Mike D' Antoni saying the same stuff Skiles does right here in Phoenix. The only difference is, he's funny:) ...plus his players are more motivated and mature and self sufficient. Mike doesn't get the childishness that Skiles has to deal with ther in Chicago
 

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Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
well i see Mike D' Antoni saying the same stuff Skiles does right here in Phoenix. The only difference is, he's funny:) ...plus his players are more motivated and mature and self sufficient. Mike doesn't get the childishness that Skiles has to deal with ther in Chicago
You're kidding me, right?

D'Antoni is the epitome of what the NBA coach shouldn't be... he lets his players do what they want, doesn't advocate defense and it shows.

Considering the talent pool that they Suns have (and had), that team should be the laughing stock of the league over the Bulls. They have 4 more wins then us, and they should have been at 30-35 wins now.

If there is a blueprint for the Bulls to avoid, the Phoenix Suns franchise is it.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!


JYD isn't really a PF either. Given that Artest's game is out-muscling people, I would have thought a SF/PF like JYD would be the ideal person to guard him. I was wrong. But I will fall over in my chair the first time I hear Skiles or Paxson criticize a guy over 25 on the Bulls for anything. Heck, even when Jalen was here, it was rare to hear complaints about him in the press.

Is there something about guys under 25 that they magically respond better to public criticism tham do guys over 25? Has public criticism practically every game been proven to be a foolproof method of getting young guys to improve?

There is nothing wrong with occasional public criticism to get a player's attention. But in my opinon, constant public criticism of young players by coaches or GMs is simply lazy coaching and lazy GMing. Coaching and GMing through the press may be a quick fix once in awhile, but go to that well every day and sooner or later that well is gonna be dry.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sgamer,1,6714876.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-bull11.html

http://63.67.107.2/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38028132

Please, I must have missed it in all these articles, please point out the critical quotes from Skiles directed at one of our young players. The only quote I see from Scott that refers to the Bulls performance last night is as follows: "I thought even from the beginning we were not the same tonight," Skiles said. "When we were ahead 19-14, the signs were there that we were not mentally sharp. We did not show up, that's what it boils down to. I can stand here and try to put a positive spin on it, but it was an unacceptable effort from beginning to end."

That sounds more like an indictment of the entire team. I don't see any one person being singled out with those public statements.

Oh, and last time I checked, I think both Robinson and Gill are older than 25. If memory serves me Skiles has either recently criticized or benched both players due to inconsistant or poor performances. And I personally have seen him get on JYD for poor shot selection as he was coming off the court. While I generally don't maintain a list of everything he and/or Paxson says about every Bulls player during the course of a season, I haven't heard much in the way of "he's picking on me" remarks from the players this season. What I have heard mostly after losses are player comments like these after last night's game:

"I agree with coach," Jerome Williams said. "That was unacceptable."

"Defensively, I found myself in the wrong position," Curry said.

"We deserved them (the boos)," Curry said. "We didn't give the right amount of effort."

But you Skiles bashers go ahead and keep trying. Someday someone might buy into your form of revisionism or broad brush analysis.

Oh, and as for your assessment of Ron Artest I strongly suggest you see him play personally once or twice before making statements that his game is about "out-muscling people." While strength is a key component, it is most definitely not what he relies on exclusively to succeed on the floor. I've watched him blow by people with amazing quickness and explode skyward to the basket to finish off a shot on many occasions. Do you think Jordan considered him one of the best defenders he ever faced just because he could out-muscle him? Just watch him sometime and you may conclude that you sold him short by describing his game as "out-muscling people."
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!


You're kidding me, right?

D'Antoni is the epitome of what the NBA coach shouldn't be... he lets his players do what they want, doesn't advocate defense and it shows.

Considering the talent pool that they Suns have (and had), that team should be the laughing stock of the league over the Bulls. They have 4 more wins then us, and they should have been at 30-35 wins now.

If there is a blueprint for the Bulls to avoid, the Phoenix Suns franchise is it.
no kidding Retro. If you didn't care to look, the team has traded Marbury and Penny and backed up the truck, is in rebuilding with the youth movement just like the Bulls.

Thats not on D'Antoni (who preaches defense all freaking day long. I know, because i watch all the games and read all the papers and see all the post press conferences and read all the players talking about it)
So don't let reality stop your rant:uhoh:
 

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Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!

no kidding Retro. If you didn't care to look, the team has traded Marbury and Penny and backed up the truck, is in rebuilding with the youth movement just like the Bulls.

Thats not on D'Antoni (who preaches defense all freaking day long. I know, because i watch all the games and read all the papers and see all the post press conferences and read all the players talking about it)
So don't let reality stop your rant:uhoh:
D'Antoni can say all he wants. I've seen his style in Denver and I've caught a couple Suns games since he made the move. I guess I'll have to take your word on his new found philosophy.

As for the rebuilding movement... the Suns already had an established superstar in Marion, so I don't quite call it a youth movement, I call it a fire sale. I don't think they did the right thing in the Marbury deal, but hey, who am I.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!


D'Antoni can say all he wants. I've seen his style in Denver and I've caught a couple Suns games since he made the move. I guess I'll have to take your word on his new found philosophy.

As for the rebuilding movement... the Suns already had an established superstar in Marion, so I don't quite call it a youth movement, I call it a fire sale. I don't think they did the right thing in the Marbury deal, but hey, who am I.
Ill tell you who you are. You are RetroDreams. The CEO of the Curry just busted your chops club! :D
 

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what they are dealing with is a lack of size. When Steph and Penny was here, they wanted to run and score, because they had no big guys and were always going small. They still do, so its a balancing act.
But its safe to say that theres hardly a single team in the NBA anymore that doesn't emphasize defense. Thats the new NBA religion that only heretics like Nelson and Cuban are rebeling against
 
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