[TheOrigiBulls]

Do you guys think the bulls should trade Crawford? I mean ive heard talk that he might come on this season, but i dont know about it. I mean i also heard that the wiz want crawford. and if we do trade him to the wiz, what should we get for him? i also think we should get rid of richardson and baxter and some other. oh and what FAs should we sign? give me your thoughts guys.

 

[L.O.B]

First off there is should be no rush to trade Jamal. With the way the kid strokes the ball from the 3 point stripe, why not see what Jay and him can do together. If the Bulls continue to run the triangle, it doesn't make a difference what you label Jamal. Point, Shooting and Small forward positions blur. Remember Jamal was hitting threes after only 7 months of rehab, he will only get better.

Frankly I can't wait to see how opponents guard Jalen, Jamal and Jason. Those three excellent passers and slashers have to be tough to defend.

The only way I trade Jamal is if Rip Hamilton comes to the Bulls in the deal.

 

[MyBallsStillHurt]

Originally posted by L.O.B
First off there is should be no rush to trade Jamal. With the way the kid strokes the ball from the 3 point stripe, why not see what Jay and him can do together. If the Bulls continue to run the triangle, it doesn't make a difference what you label Jamal. Point, Shooting and Small forward positions blur. Remember Jamal was hitting threes after only 7 months of rehab, he will only get better.

Frankly I can't wait to see how opponents guard Jalen, Jamal and Jason. Those three excellent passers and slashers have to be tough to defend.

The only way I trade Jamal is if Rip Hamilton comes to the Bulls in the deal.

LOB -- You're right on the money!

Don't look for the Bulls to deal JCraw anytime soon unless it is determined that his head is too messed-up with Jay Will's arrival. JCraw is a sensitive young man with confidence problems. He tends to get down on himself a little too much and too quickly. However, once he sees for himself that both he and Jay Will can play together and succeed, he should be fine. Right now though, his head is spinning a little.

The player on the bubble now has to be Marcus Fizer. If we're to add any kind of "quality" veteran to this team, I believe Fizer is going to have to be dealt as part of a package to get him. Lonny Baxter's arrival may help spur that on.

If Fizer would be willing to come off the bench and be Corliss Williamson, the Bulls would be thrilled. It would make our second unit very strong. But, he really wants to be a starter and believes that he should be out on the floor for at least 38 minutes a game.

 

[RealFan]

Fizer is fine with coming off the bench. I heard him say so on a long WSCR interview about two weeks ago. He said he is part of this team for the long term and that Chandler, Curry and he are going to attend the Pete Newell camp together later this summer.

Krause went out of his way on draft day to praise Fizer and his improvement.

So I don't think that Fizer is being shopped purposefully. Again, as with JC, if someone decides to seriously overpay for Fizer's services, Krause will do a deal. Otherwise, he is content to let these guys grow together.

 

[chifaninca]

I gotta agree with RF.

Krause seems to be fine with the team he has assemblemed. I think one of he signs that someone will have to really overpay is that he didn't take a trade that many people thought was a good deal (Odom or Magette and the 8 & 12) which was rumored all over, especially here in LA. Whether it's true or not, there were plent of bidders out there and he said no, he wanted Jwill.

I am hoping this means that Krause sees he is set at the Guard position (could use a cheap vet for caoching purposes at the point).

As for the Forward positions, He seems to believe that E-Rob will be fine. I still worry, but I'm a fan.

The Center is where we need help and he cleary identifies that as a priority. I don't believe we will be able to get Keon due to the fact that Keon will start for other teams, like the Knicks. But, I am hopeful he'll get a serviceable vet who knows his role.

I feel comfortable that Krause knows he's close to solidifying this roster for a long time. A year or two of playing together and this team should roll.

He's actually done a very nice job. Albeit, a bit slower than we would've liked.

Overpaying is the way that Krause will listen, otherwise, he will bask in the glory he truly feels (and we all hope) is coming.

 

[FJ_of _Rockaway]

I wonder if the Raps would be interested in dealing The Dream for Fizer ?

With the amount of cap room we will have ( assuming we renounce all our free agents ) we will have around $5.5M ( so it seems )

Fizer and Roger Mason Jr = $3.5M and Dream = $5.5M

Toronto skim the luxury tax by shaving off $2M off their payroll which we absorb and we have a genuine veteran championship center that has 2 years left on his contract who can play 20 mpg and help tutor Tyson and Eddy with Bill Cartwright.

Toronto give us a protected 1st round pick .

With the $3.5M left to play with before we breach cap if we could swing Hoiberg for Eric Williams ( around a $3.5M differential in their salaries ) I would be happy.

Boston is helped in avoiding the luxury tax and maybe able to have room to resign Erick Strickland or Rodney Rogers.

Boston also give us a 1st round pick

Now at the salary cap, our exception kicks in which we use to :

Sign Malik or Popeye for half of it
Make a play for Erick Strickland for most of the other half of it and sign Dan Langhi at the 3

So :

Curry/Hakeem/Bagaric
Chandler/Malik/Baxter
Rose/EWilliams/Langhi
Robinson/Hassell/EStrickland
Jay/Crawford/EStrickland

14 man roster at $47M ( approx )

 

[Sicky Dimpkins]

Originally posted by FJ_of _Rockaway
I wonder if the Raps would be interested in dealing The Dream for Fizer ?

With the amount of cap room we will have ( assuming we renounce all our free agents ) we will have around $5.5M ( so it seems )

Fizer and Roger Mason Jr = $3.5M and Dream = $5.5M

Toronto skim the luxury tax by shaving off $2M off their payroll which we absorb and we have a genuine veteran championship center that has 2 years left on his contract who can play 20 mpg and help tutor Tyson and Eddy with Bill Cartwright.

Toronto give us a protected 1st round pick .

Now at the salary cap, our exception kicks in which we use to :

Sign Malik or Popeye for half of it

As usual the complete idea is too complicated for me but in regard to Hakeem I say:

Welcome to my world. (J.Reeves)
Welcome to my nightmare. ( A. Cooper)
In any case: Welcome FJ, Retro Dreams and all others.

Rejected

(Now that the Raptor have Hunter, they won't want Best. New deal: Salvador Dali(bor) for the Dream straight up.(It's tight capwise but I think it works.))

Embraced


Mason gone already? No.
1st round pick too? Optimistic but I won't say no.

==================================

Scott Williams

Malik Rose

Popeye Jones

Hakeem Olajuwon

"At this stage in my career, I want to contribute to other people's goals and ambitions."

Toronto front court: (2002/2003)
Bradley PF: 1.2 mil; Williams PF: 5.25 mil; Montross(?) C: 2.7 mil; Stewart C: 4.1 mil; N'Diaye C: .85 mil

Hakeem C: 2002/2003: 5.7 mil; 2003/2004: 6.3 mil

Davis PF/C: 12 mil
Keon Clark PF: 2.7 Qualifying Offer(which has been made)

It seems to me that:

1. The Fizz is too much to give and may not be the best fit for Toronto. An expensive C for a cheap C saves them $ and doesn't mess with positions. The motivation I was playing off of was that they'd want to save $ to sign Clark. Both Clark and Davis are better at the 4 although both play 5 at times. Adding the Fizz to the fray at the 4 seems like an overload there. Bags at the 5 allows more time for the quality players to play the 4.

2. The sequence of events seems risky. Trade the Fizz and THEN HOPE to sign another 4? I know the Bull just made a HUGE investment at the 4 with the 44th pick(puke) but I'd prefer to have a vet signed before (or at the same time) trading Marcus.

Now that the 2nd to last rebounding Bull lost the opportunity to get the #1 NBA rebounder/48 or the #4(?) college rebounder in favor of 6' 1/4" "Jay" we'll be fine. Let's keep Marcus and use "positive reinforcement" to encourage him to use his 260 lbs. of muscle to rebound more(per 48) than Hakeem(which he hasn't done yet). I'm sure that will be enough. Everything will be fine now that "Jay" is here. Trust me. Relax. Smile. Other teams worry about having the ball before running but not the Bull because they have "Jay". All things are possible with "Jay".

3. On a more general vet front court note:

I remain more skeptical that the Bull will be able to obtain a quality player as easily and cheaply as most of my fellow fans seem to think. This AC/DC attitude("dirty deeds(rebounds/post defense) done dirt cheap" seems at odds with reality to me.

Rebounds per 48(2001/2002 rank-2002/2003 $):

1.Fortson:4.9 mil; 2.Wallace:5.5 mil;
3.White:4.9 mil; 4.Duncan:12 mil;
5.Foster:2.26 mil Qualifying offer;
6.Garnett:25.2 mil; 7.PJ:7 mil;
8.Brand:4.9 mil;
9.Popeye:1.3 mil(?) 2001/2002;
10.Pollard:4.8 mil; 11.Mohammed:4.75 mil;
12.Magloire:1.1 mil(rookie contract)
13.Mutombo:16.1 mil;
14.Rose:2.285 mil 2001/2002;
15.Ostertag:7.8 mil; 16.D. Davis:8 mil;
17.D. Rob:10.5 mil; 18.Ervin J.:4 mil;
19.J. O'Neal:6.9 mil; 20.Vlade:11.25 mil;
21.Kandi:6 mil Qualifying offer
22.Keon:2.726 mil Qualifying offer(which has been made)
23.B. Miller:4.8 mil; 24.Cato:7 mil;
25.K. Thomas:4.9 mil

I think Denver got Williams through a trade(?) and therefore could do a sign and trade(?). I think San Antonio can do the same with Rose(been there 4 years?). Washington has either Bird or Early Bird rights to Jones according to the Real GM trade checker(TR1B) and so it could sign and trade him(?). The Bull aren't the only team looking for this type of player: Orlando and Dallas come to mind. I'm not saying they will but that it seems to be a possibility.

None of these teams have cap/tax problems.

I don't think Washington has a place for Jones but I really think he'll get closer to some teams full exception than 1/2 of it. The only other "cheap" rebounders on the list are on original contracts. Yes he's older (32) and yes he has missed alot of games but I still think he'll get more than most here seem to think.

San Antonio is saving cap to re-sign Duncan but would re-signing Rose really prevent that? It looks like they will have enough to sign both to me. Rose would have a better chance to win a ring there than in Chicago. Even though he's only been in the NBA 5 seasons, he's not that young.

Why will Williams play for 1/2 what he made last year if he's healthy? If he's not healthy then why would the Bull want him? (Rhetorical ?'s apparently as they never get answered.) He said he'd like to play in Chicago but he didn't say for how much.
====================================
JMSO

 

[Dan Rosenbaum]

Take advantage of Toronto's Desperation

I pulled this thread back, because seeing the desperation Toronto is going through trying to clear capspace for Keon, I thought we might be able to take advantage of the situation.

Fizer, Bagaric, Robinson

for

Olajuwon, JYD, Jeffries, and 2003 unprotected #1 pick

Why the Bulls do it

In Olajuwon, we get a great veteran for Curry and Chandler to be around and he still plays quality minutes. In JYD, we get a Dennis Rodman-type (without the baggage) who can defend almost anyone and is a great rebounder. In Jeffries we get another potentially great defensive role player.

We would have no need for Harpring, so we could make a run at Michael Redd, a guy nobody seems to be interested in, for some odd reason.

JYD's contract is one year longer than ERob's, but we pay him $1.2M less in 2005/2006.

We also get an unprotected #1 pick. There is no guarantee that Toronto makes the playoffs next year, so there is some chance this could be a lottery pick.

Why Toronto does it

It clears $2.1M in capspace, possibly clearing enough room to re-sign Keon. Keon/Davis/Fizer is a pretty good PF/C combination, although Toronto might want to see if Orlando will trade Fizer for Miller. Bagaric is a serviceable back-up C and makes it possible for them to trade Montross to clear more cap room (most likely, to the Clippers).

 

[Cager]

Crawford/Fizer Thoughts

I agree that Crawford should not be traded unless someone wants to overpay. He has not been given the opportunity to show what he is capable. If he is as accurate an outside shooter as his late year performance indicated then he could better than Miller and certainly Rip. We will see what made JK so excited two years ago this season.

Fizer certainly could do what Corliss did for DTW. However, if he isn't going to be more aggressive on the boards and focus more on defense, then he will never be more than a 20-25 minute sub.

Long term we need a strong 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5. I'd love to get Clark and lose Fizer because both Clark and Chandler can play 4 or 5 . That would give us the most flexibility. Clark is athletic like Chandler.

 

[BCH]

Crawford has shown he can be an accurate jump shooter and that is pretty much it so far. He averages 1.3 FTA per 48 minutes.

Maybe it was his injury and being tentative about it, but he is a ways from being comparing to Rip and therefore a long way from being compared to Miller.

 

[Cager]

I agree that Jamal hasn't demonstrated enough to say he is better than Rip or Miller. However if he can shoot 3's at 40%, he can certainly handle the ball better than either of the above and is quicker. I was focusing on potential. I'm still not sure his funky looking shot can be consistent enough from the outside. Again this year we'll see.

 

[BCH]

I think it is going to be a crime if he doesn't get significant minutes at the PG position. No one really knows if he can play the position and if Krause moves him to SG, we probably never will.

 

[Sicky Dimpkins]

Originally posted by BCH
I think it is going to be a crime if he doesn't get significant minutes at the PG position. No one really knows if he can play the position and if Krause moves him to SG, we probably never will.

Ditto.

Did Krause know JC could play the 2 before drafting "Jay"? It's easier than the point to be sure but still it's 2 players trying to prove they can play positions in the NBA that they didn't play last year.

It seems to me that Krause needed to be sure of 2 things if both "Jay" and JC were going to be part of this team. 1. "Jay" could run the point in the NBA. 2. JC could play significant minutes at the 2.
If he didn't think he could then he should've traded him on draft day to a team that still thought he could run the point.

Oh well.

P.S.: NCBullsFan: Count me as a yes vote on your trade idea. From the Bull side it leaves them very thin at the 3 however. Jalen better stay healthy if it happened.
===================================
I'm not sure I understand or agree with this strategy of Krause to use exceptions instead of capspace to make deals. It sure has made it more difficult for this "surreal" GM to come up with ideas.

Anyone else think this apparent experiment with JC at the 2 gives more credence to the "Rose is a 3" position?

 

[BCH]

I think you have a scenario much like what FIzer was thrust into. Krause took him out of spite for not getting Miles and then proclaimed him a SF. Now just because Krause really wanted it to happen, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Look at what happened to Fizer trying to play out of position. His trade value right now cannot be that much and the Bulls are basically stuck using him as the 7th or 8th man with ERob and Hassel higher in the rotation, assuming Crawford and JWill both start. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that Crawford is going to see a lot of bench time and that if he starts the media campaign for a trade Krause is going to regret it, much like the Oakley situation.

 

[johnston797]

Originally posted by BCH
Look at what happened to Fizer trying to play out of position. His trade value right now cannot be that much

If Fizer could play any position well, his trade value would be fine. But he can't play D. His shooting % is poor. If he improves, he has value to the team and accross the league. If he improves a lot, he may be more valuable to someone else than to us as a backup to Chandler. I hope it happens.

If Crawford shows enough to convince 1 GM that he would be a stud at PG and he doesn't fit on the Bulls, his trade value will be fine. He needs to show that he can guard a position in this league and get to the hole. If he improves a lot, he may be more valuable to someone else as a PG than to us as a backup to Jwill or at the 2.

Somehow, I think anyone that can play winning ball will get plenty of time with the Bulls next year.

Now if Fizer and Crawford want to pout b/c they thought they would be the man, no one can help them.

 

[BCH]

Hey. If Krause drafted Fizer then he can play SF, otherwise he would not have drafted him.

 

[johnston797]

Originally posted by BCH
Hey. If Krause drafted Fizer then he can play SF, otherwise he would not have drafted him.

Nice work at switching the focus of the discussion, but here goes...

Krause thought that he would get a free agent swing player. That was the TMAC summer, right? The Bulls threw huge contract offers at Hill, TMAC, Tim Thomas, Glen Rice & Eddie Jones.

He didn't pick Fizer out of spite. Once Miles was gone, Krause liked Fizer better as a backup 4 than Miller or others as a backup 3.

 

[Songcycle]

Some thought Fizer was as good as #2 in the draft behind Kenyon Martin, Fizer was thought to be in the upper echelon that year, no one thought Miller fit that description and was thought to be a level down. You always take the best available player with a high pick. Fizer will show improvement this year, how much remains to be seen.

 

[BCH]

I actually think Fizer is going to be a good 6th man. That was a cheap shot at Krause. My feeling is this on the Fizer pick. If Krause is the master GM that many claim him to be, why wasn't he prepared to move down or make a better pick? Yes Fizer was the 2nd best guy on most people's board but why would Krause go with the safe pick, for a guy he didn't need, and try to justify him in a position he couldn't play? He should have been more prepared for what went down on draft night.

 

[Sicky Dimpkins]

Marcus Fizer: "power three"

...hence the confusion.