Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The new additions to the PL, BU & Loyola, are coming in from conferences where at least part of the conference tournaments take place at a neutral site. Is there any chance that the PL goes to a neutral site format in the future? Is the reason the league does not stage neutral site tournaments purely financial, or is there something about the philosophy of the league that cuts against staging this type of tournament?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
"If you hold a conference tournament at a neutral site, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

In other words, up until 2004 or so the men's and women's tournaments were held at a neutral site in Maryland, and attendance was pretty low. Maybe with Loyola + BU a better site could be found that would drum up better attendance, but I don't see the motivation for moving away from the current system as it's been pretty successful (i.e. not sure what the financial benefit would be). Home court is a big reward for those who do well in the tournament and it more or less guarantees strong attendance for at least the championship game, which is the only one that's televised.

I could also see it being hosted at a facility like Agganis - great location, great facility, built-in fanbase. Still, I'm not sure the other schools would want to continuously give BU that home-court advantage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,515 Posts
Coming from the AE, I've always enjoyed their format. Quarters and semis at a centralized (though not necessarily neutral) site, then finals at the higher seed's gym - ensuring frenzied TV crowd. The centralized location is a great fan experience if done well

That conference tournament will be the thing I miss the most from that conference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,417 Posts
Maybe with Loyola + BU a better site could be found that would drum up better attendance...
BU and better attendance usually don't belong in the same sentence. Considering the size of the student body, attendance is very low.

If they ever go back to a neutral site format, "The Rock" in NJ looks to be in a good central spot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,599 Posts
The Palestra in Philly would be a good spot. Feels collegiate, not huge and cavernous, and in "central" location.
There has been talk of that before. Unfortunately, I don't believe that Penn makes it available for conference tournaments any longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
The Palestra in Philly would be a good spot. Feels collegiate, not huge and cavernous, and in "central" location.
Would be amazing. Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette would make sure there's a decent crowd too. Doesn't get more central than that. If you did a Friday and Saturday night and then the championship is held the next week at the highest seed that would be ideal.
 

·
Return to Glory
Joined
·
29 Posts
I think with an added week to the schedule (four more games), that they may have to go to a neutral-site tournament.

My issue with the Patriot League is 1) They had it at a place that was NOT a destination. Who the hell wants to go to a horse-barn in the middle of Maryland for a conference tournament. They need to have it somewhere to make it an event. The Palestra, Atlantic City, Liucouras Center (Temple's home), NYC, etc.... Somewhere where there is something to do in addition to watching basketball. and 2) They need to stick with it. You can't have it at a place for two years and then just say, "Welp, this isn't working. You have to make it an event and stick with it".

I have no issue with the finals at the top remaining seed for TV atmosphere, but if you look historically at the two best seasons that the Patriot League has ever had (2005 and 2012), it was when the road team won at the top seed so there were two postseason bids. Both teams both years won postseason games (Holy Cross, Bucknell in 2005; Lehigh, Bucknell in 2012). It's very hard to win at an opponent in the finals, but when it has happened, the league had its best years. I would think the league would want that.

Not sure how it will work with two extra teams if they try to use the same format. You may have to play the "play-in" games on Monday or Tuesday night, then Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, like it has been... If that is the case, a Navy team (or vice-versa) could conceivably play at Boston U to wrap up the season, at Colgate on Monday for play-in game, back to Holy Cross on Wednesday, home on Thursday, travel to Lehigh / Army, etc... on Friday for a Saturday game, then the finals.

BU could go to Navy for the end of the season, back home to Holy Cross (on Monday), back to Loyola / American for Wednesday, then to Colgate for Saturday.

To top it off, on Saturday for the end of the season, you have NO idea where you could be going for MONDAY's game. Travel and logistical nightmare in terms of booking flights, hotels, meals, etc....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
GoNavy12,

Great point about the much longer conference schedule.

One of the open, central locations for a tournament was just picked up by the CAA: they're moving to First Mariner Arena in Baltimore for 2014-2016, at least. Say what you will about Baltimore, and the age/quality of the arena, but it is pretty central to the southern tier of the conference and near the entertainment options in the waterfront/Camden Yards area. It's a good spot for the CAA, considering their shifting geography.
 

·
Return to Glory
Joined
·
29 Posts
I think with an added week to the schedule (four more games), that they may have to go to a neutral-site tournament.

My issue with the Patriot League is 1) They had it at a place that was NOT a destination. Who the hell wants to go to a horse-barn in the middle of Maryland for a conference tournament. They need to have it somewhere to make it an event. The Palestra, Atlantic City, Liucouras Center (Temple's home), NYC, etc.... Somewhere where there is something to do in addition to watching basketball. and 2) They need to stick with it. You can't have it at a place for two years and then just say, "Welp, this isn't working. You have to make it an event and stick with it".

I have no issue with the finals at the top remaining seed for TV atmosphere, but if you look historically at the two best seasons that the Patriot League has ever had (2005 and 2012), it was when the road team won at the top seed so there were two postseason bids. Both teams both years won postseason games (Holy Cross, Bucknell in 2005; Lehigh, Bucknell in 2012). It's very hard to win at an opponent in the finals, but when it has happened, the league had its best years. I would think the league would want that.

Not sure how it will work with two extra teams if they try to use the same format. You may have to play the "play-in" games on Monday or Tuesday night, then Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, like it has been... If that is the case, a Navy team (or vice-versa) could conceivably play at Boston U to wrap up the season, at Colgate on Monday for play-in game, back to Holy Cross on Wednesday, home on Thursday, travel to Lehigh / Army, etc... on Friday for a Saturday game, then the finals.

BU could go to Navy for the end of the season, back home to Holy Cross (on Monday), back to Loyola / American for Wednesday, then to Colgate for Saturday.

To top it off, on Saturday for the end of the season, you have NO idea where you could be going for MONDAY's game. Travel and logistical nightmare in terms of booking flights, hotels, meals, etc....

I failed to mention this well, but in the above scenario with Navy as an example...

It would miss class on Monday. Likely have to either 1) come home Tuesday morning or 2) go straight to next game, thus missing Tuesday and Wednesday of class, back Thursday morning (missing likely at least one class) and leaving Friday afternoon, missing more class. It would be possible to miss an ENTIRE week of class in this scenario.

Yep, it's for the "student"-athlete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
I think with an added week to the schedule (four more games), that they may have to go to a neutral-site tournament.

My issue with the Patriot League is 1) They had it at a place that was NOT a destination. Who the hell wants to go to a horse-barn in the middle of Maryland for a conference tournament. They need to have it somewhere to make it an event. The Palestra, Atlantic City, Liucouras Center (Temple's home), NYC, etc.... Somewhere where there is something to do in addition to watching basketball. and 2) They need to stick with it. You can't have it at a place for two years and then just say, "Welp, this isn't working. You have to make it an event and stick with it".

I have no issue with the finals at the top remaining seed for TV atmosphere, but if you look historically at the two best seasons that the Patriot League has ever had (2005 and 2012), it was when the road team won at the top seed so there were two postseason bids. Both teams both years won postseason games (Holy Cross, Bucknell in 2005; Lehigh, Bucknell in 2012). It's very hard to win at an opponent in the finals, but when it has happened, the league had its best years. I would think the league would want that.

Not sure how it will work with two extra teams if they try to use the same format. You may have to play the "play-in" games on Monday or Tuesday night, then Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, like it has been... If that is the case, a Navy team (or vice-versa) could conceivably play at Boston U to wrap up the season, at Colgate on Monday for play-in game, back to Holy Cross on Wednesday, home on Thursday, travel to Lehigh / Army, etc... on Friday for a Saturday game, then the finals.

BU could go to Navy for the end of the season, back home to Holy Cross (on Monday), back to Loyola / American for Wednesday, then to Colgate for Saturday.

To top it off, on Saturday for the end of the season, you have NO idea where you could be going for MONDAY's game. Travel and logistical nightmare in terms of booking flights, hotels, meals, etc....
I'm assuming capacity is too small and it's a bit far south ideally, but when you talk about a destination, Annapolis would be fantastic. I guess it's a bit cold in March, but what a great town.

What is the smallest capacity the PL would consider? 4500? 5k?

AC is probably looking for a tournament after losing the A10 and it's a decent location for this league. I know I'm new to following the league, but something tells me the academic types and conference heads may not like the idea of playing in AC. Is that off base?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
+1.

AC would be a great spot (not too cavernous, central location) but as you say may not be satisfactory to the "intellects".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I'm assuming capacity is too small and it's a bit far south ideally, but when you talk about a destination, Annapolis would be fantastic. I guess it's a bit cold in March, but what a great town.

What is the smallest capacity the PL would consider? 4500? 5k?

AC is probably looking for a tournament after losing the A10 and it's a decent location for this league. I know I'm new to following the league, but something tells me the academic types and conference heads may not like the idea of playing in AC. Is that off base?
The conference bigwigs have had no problems holding meetings along the NJ shore so why not AC? It's got to beat Upper Marlboro, MD. I wasn't impressed with the Show Place Arena.

Ya gotta think the new Allentown arena is on the short list too if that ever gets built.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
I want to bump this thread up because I saw an intriguing article:

The newly named AAC is considering holding their first tournament at the Palestra:
http://blogs.dailypennsylvanian.com/thebuzz/2013/04/12/palestra-a-potential-site-for-aac-conference-tourney/

It would then likely rotate among other places like Memphis, Hartford, Cincy, Tampa, etc. My guess is it lands in Memphis more often than not because of the great facility, fans and it’s a great place to visit. But this indicates that Penn is at least open to allowing a tournament at the Palestra. Sure, maybe they are a little more favorable to host the likes of Louisville, Memphis, UCONN, Temple, Cincy, but I think the Patriot League tourney would be a great fit there.

I live in Philly so I have bias, but I would argue there is no better venue for a Patriot League Conference tournament. It's absolutely right in the geographic center of gravity for the league, next to Amtrak, in a city worth visiting with a number of alumni of league schools. It's also the perfect size for the tournament (9000) and the historic nature of the place just seems to fit the Patriot League schools culture (I know I'm new to watching the league, but this is just my sense). It's also neutral so no one team would get a huge advantage, although Bucknell and Lehigh would probably have the most fans every year.

I know other strong candidates are Atlantic City, Baltimore, Allentown/Bethlehem, Mohegan Sun, Agganis, Liacouras Center in Philly, and others, but none of them can touch the Palestra in terms of the overall package.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
Oh and there's one other advantage: playing it at the Palestra is perhaps the best location for recruiting purposes since so many players are recruited from the Philly-area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,515 Posts
9000 sounds pretty big for our league, but it would be awesome to watch games there. The number 1 priority should be getting a centralized tourney ANYWHERE and scrapping that dang home-sites format!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
It is a little big, I agree. But I think it's as close to ideal size as you're going to get.

I'd peg the ideal size between 5500-7 k. I think if you factor in all the criteria:

Location, capacity, venue itself, tourism opportunities in host city, accessibility, etc, Palestra is the top choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Agree that the Palestra would be the ideal spot for the PL tourney (if one happens). The AE method of tourney place and then championship at the higher seed I thought was perfect. Hopefully, the PL wakes up and agrees with us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPL_Center

Not sure if someone mentioned this facility yet. Think I saw "Allentown" arena somewhere. It'll be called the PPL Center and will seat about 8500 for hockey when its finished. A little bit big, but its in a very good central location for the Patriot League. Should definitely receive consideration, along with the other venues mentioned
 

·
Lafayette College
Joined
·
10 Posts
As a Patriot League "purist," I'm in favor of keeping the tournament games at campus sites. Each season as the schedule winds down, a lot of excitement is generated not only for seeding, but perhaps more important in jockeying for position to secure home games for the PL playoffs. Tournament games at the "Pennsylvania schools" (Lafayette, Bucknell, Lehigh) are intense, to put it mildly. Fans want those home games, they discuss them on the various boards, and they show up to packed houses in support.

There's every reason to think that the intensity and fan support for home tournament games will carry over to Boston U. and Loyola as well. Perhaps this is unique to the league, given the nature of its member schools and their facilities, but so be it. I'd leave well enough alone.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top