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I will now make what many out here might consider an overstatement: this could be the first cog in changing the landscape of D-I college basketball forever.

A mid-major in the Final Four, in this modern day of big-money schools screwing the little guy over and over and over. In a word: WOW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
JasperMan said:
Nice to think that a Final Four team was a visiting team at Draddy this past season. :cheers:
A nice byproduct of the BracketBuster concept for MC.
Glad you pointed that out--because if Nova wins (I'm not near a TV and have no idea how they're doing), Raver will say that they "hosted" Nova this season. :laugh:
 

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GuyF said:
I will now make what many out here might consider an overstatement: this could be the first cog in changing the landscape of D-I college basketball forever.

A mid-major in the Final Four, in this modern day of big-money schools screwing the little guy over and over and over. In a word: WOW.
Guy, I hope you're right. I think it makes for a much more exciting tournament, and a more exciting season. Perhaps if players feel that they can make it to the final four on a team like GMU, they may be more likely to choose a good mid-major where they will play, rather than a major where they will warm the bench.

So unfortunately, I look for the Majors to "fix" the system after seeing GMU to the final 4 and Wichita State to the sweet 16. They can allow the money to slosh around from year to year between each other, but I'm sure they can't stand these mid-majors getting out of their place.
 

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Congrats to George Mason and the CAA. Great day for all of us who root for mid-major teams. Just outplayed Michigan St, North Carolina, Wichita St, and now UConn and deserve this honor. I think they've got as good a shot to win the national championship as Florida, LSU, and UCLA. It is WIDE open.

If George Mason wins the national championship how would it "change" mid-majors hoops if any? With players at majors leaving for the NBA so early it is freshman/sophs at majors vs. veteran teams at mid-majors. The experience is obviously invaluable.

The dream is there for a MAAC team to do it someday. Yes, the CAA is a better overall league but it's not like it was knocking on the door before. George Mason was their first at-large bid in 20 years. They haven't won many NCAA games prior to this year and George Mason had never won an NCAA game prior to this tournament.

As unlikely as it sounds it is a goal that nobody should laugh at. Maybe Ruland should retract his statement that he has to move to Seton Hall to win a national championship. George Mason is a heck of a lot closer than Seton Hall is :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
RiverdaleEngineer said:
unfortunately, I look for the Majors to "fix" the system
And here's how they'll do it--they'll gradually increase the NCAA PIG round until it's a full round. The teams that are normally 15s and 16s will have to play each other just to get in, and the mid-majors that are seeing 11s, 12s and 13s will start seeing 14s and 15s, meaning fewer upsets. The NCAA still appeases the masses because there will still be some upsets, but Big State U will still advance to the Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four.
 

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GuyF said:
And here's how they'll do it--they'll gradually increase the NCAA PIG round until it's a full round. The teams that are normally 15s and 16s will have to play each other just to get in, and the mid-majors that are seeing 11s, 12s and 13s will start seeing 14s and 15s, meaning fewer upsets. The NCAA still appeases the masses because there will still be some upsets, but Big State U will still advance to the Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four.
I really hope they don't do that. That would be terrible...The MAACs and truer mid-majors would lose out for the reasons Guy said, but I don't know that the high mid majors (CAA, MVC, etc) would be the ones getting bumped all the way down. They've earned their keep, at least they did this year...But it's the conferences that get the big team every few years and the conferences that are more prone to fluctuation that would seem to get the shaft.

Also the PIG losers do not get their cut of the tv money that you get for earning a spot in the Dance and more for advancing, I think it was 300k this year.
 

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Saints4Life said:
2002 maryland (rd 1 siena)
2003 Cuse (rd 1 manhattan)
2006 (someone quielty whispers lsu?)
The MAAC has recently been an outstanding predictor of the national champion.

2005 Men's Lacrosse - Johns Hopkins (beat Marist in first round)

2005 Softball - Michigan (beat Canisius in first game of the regional round)

2005 Men's Tennis - UCLA (beat Manhattan in first round)

2005 Water Polo - UCLA (beat affiliate member Wagner in first round)

2005 Volleyball - Washington (beat Siena in first round)
 

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GuyF said:
And here's how they'll do it--they'll gradually increase the NCAA PIG round until it's a full round. The teams that are normally 15s and 16s will have to play each other just to get in, and the mid-majors that are seeing 11s, 12s and 13s will start seeing 14s and 15s, meaning fewer upsets. The NCAA still appeases the masses because there will still be some upsets, but Big State U will still advance to the Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four.
I have been fearing exactly what Guy said for a while. It would be a disgrace if they did that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GuyF said:
And here's how they'll do it--they'll gradually increase the NCAA PIG round until it's a full round. The teams that are normally 15s and 16s will have to play each other just to get in, and the mid-majors that are seeing 11s, 12s and 13s will start seeing 14s and 15s, meaning fewer upsets. The NCAA still appeases the masses because there will still be some upsets, but Big State U will still advance to the Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four.
Unfortunately, here's the first step toward me being right above.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/news/story?id=2390870
 

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GuyF said:
Unfortunately, here's the first step toward me being right above.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/news/story?id=2390870
When I read this story earlier this morning, I thought about your post.

Ironic that the rationalization being given is that there's so much parity and so many good teams, like G Mason, and these other teams do not deserve to be left out. DON'T DO US ANY FAVORS! Sounds like they are opening things up for the Mid-majors, but we all know it means more slots for the ACC. etc., and lower seeds for the mid-majors.
 

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RiverdaleEngineer said:
When I read this story earlier this morning, I thought about your post.

Ironic that the rationalization being given is that there's so much parity and so many good teams, like G Mason, and these other teams do not deserve to be left out. DON'T DO US ANY FAVORS! Sounds like they are opening things up for the Mid-majors, but we all know it means more slots for the ACC. etc., and lower seeds for the mid-majors.

Not that i agree or disagree - but i totally think that they will do this, because more teams = more games = more money.
 

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Why not let all 334 teams in DI in? This is getting inane. The regular season is already borderline meaningless (at least in major conferences) why cheapen it even more? Anything to make an extra buck or to screw the mid-major.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You are all correct above. It IS about more money. And I loved that quote by Boeheim that the PIG round is "still the NCAA Tournament". TOTAL bullcrap.

No question this will happen, because the NCAA is run by all the Big State U's out there and they see a little guy crashing their party. So let's screw them. Under an expanded format, GMU would be a 13 or 14 seed and have a MUCH tougher first-round game.

MTS, I'll bet by 2015 the NCAA Tournament will be a 96-team event, with the top 32 seeded teams (we'll be lucky to have a mid-major in that group) all getting byes to the next round.

This is all TOTAL crap. Sorry, but the friggin' MEAC champ won its way into the NCAAs, they shouldn't have to beat another little guy for the right to face a big guy. They've EARNED it already. This is what it's all about. We know this isn't a tournament of the top 64 teams; let the little guys have their moments in the sun.

Anyway, yes, there will be a 32-game PIG within 10 years. The GMUs of the world will have to play the Hamptons of the world in the first round, and the big guys get to dodge a bullet. However, by 2025, some of the lowest ranked of the 96 teams will be able to advance 3-4 rounds, and they'll change the format again and expand to 128 teams, and that will ensure that every team from the power conferences will be in the Dance. This is what they want, anyway. South Florida went 1-15 in Big East play? Suuuure, let them in too!

Will go slightly off-topic here for a moment: Anyone out here remember Lance Haffner Games' Courtside College Basketball? For those that don't, it was a completely "text" game (dos), but you were the coach and you did all the shot selections, set the defense, substituted players, etc. The cool thing about the game was that it was a stat-driven game, and each year the stats for every college hoops team in the land came out on disk. The games were "real" because of that. If you had a guy who shot 50% from the field and grabs 10 boards per game, over a 10-game span his averages would put him around those numbers. In college, we created drinking events out of "tournaments". We would all draw one team at random, and then set brackets for a 256-game tournament where the pairings were straight draws, not seedings. If you drew Montana and then drew Duke in the first round, too bad for you, you lose, drink up. I remember that I had Jackson State one time and made a pretty deep run. I think Lindsay Hunter (former Piston among others) was on the team. Last time I bought the game was in 97-98 because I wanted a "good" Iona team to play with. Not sure if it even exists any more. Anyway, this conversation made me think of that game. Never thought a 256-team tournament would be possible back then, but in 20 years, who the hell knows what we'll have.

Anyway, NOW I had to dig through a stack of my old floppies and I did find the original software. And since we were good this year... ;-)
 

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The NCAA people should be greatful George Mason made the final four this year. Other than them this final four is pretty dull. Yes, you've got UCLA but there's an unwatchable team. LSU and Florida aren't anything to write home about. There is hardly a Duke, UConn, Texas, Kansas, Syracuse, Kentucky type of field.

George Mason is giving this final four some juice. CBS should be praying GM can get by the Gators. Any other championship match-up is a yawn IMO.
 

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MTS said:
The NCAA people should be greatful George Mason made the final four this year. Other than them this final four is pretty dull. Yes, you've got UCLA but there's an unwatchable team. LSU and Florida aren't anything to write home about. There is hardly a Duke, UConn, Texas, Kansas, Syracuse, Kentucky type of field.

George Mason is giving this final four some juice. CBS should be praying GM can get by the Gators. Any other championship match-up is a yawn IMO.
Well put, MTS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
GuyF said:
You are all correct above. It IS about more money. And I loved that quote by Boeheim that the PIG round is "still the NCAA Tournament". TOTAL bullcrap.

No question this will happen, because the NCAA is run by all the Big State U's out there and they see a little guy crashing their party. So let's screw them. Under an expanded format, GMU would be a 13 or 14 seed and have a MUCH tougher first-round game.

MTS, I'll bet by 2015 the NCAA Tournament will be a 96-team event, with the top 32 seeded teams (we'll be lucky to have a mid-major in that group) all getting byes to the next round.

This is all TOTAL crap. Sorry, but the friggin' MEAC champ won its way into the NCAAs, they shouldn't have to beat another little guy for the right to face a big guy. They've EARNED it already. This is what it's all about. We know this isn't a tournament of the top 64 teams; let the little guys have their moments in the sun.

Anyway, yes, there will be a 32-game PIG within 10 years. The GMUs of the world will have to play the Hamptons of the world in the first round, and the big guys get to dodge a bullet. However, by 2025, some of the lowest ranked of the 96 teams will be able to advance 3-4 rounds, and they'll change the format again and expand to 128 teams, and that will ensure that every team from the power conferences will be in the Dance. This is what they want, anyway. South Florida went 1-15 in Big East play? Suuuure, let them in too!

Will go slightly off-topic here for a moment: Anyone out here remember Lance Haffner Games' Courtside College Basketball? For those that don't, it was a completely "text" game (dos), but you were the coach and you did all the shot selections, set the defense, substituted players, etc. The cool thing about the game was that it was a stat-driven game, and each year the stats for every college hoops team in the land came out on disk. The games were "real" because of that. If you had a guy who shot 50% from the field and grabs 10 boards per game, over a 10-game span his averages would put him around those numbers. In college, we created drinking events out of "tournaments". We would all draw one team at random, and then set brackets for a 256-game tournament where the pairings were straight draws, not seedings. If you drew Montana and then drew Duke in the first round, too bad for you, you lose, drink up. I remember that I had Jackson State one time and made a pretty deep run. I think Lindsay Hunter (former Piston among others) was on the team. Last time I bought the game was in 97-98 because I wanted a "good" Iona team to play with. Not sure if it even exists any more. Anyway, this conversation made me think of that game. Never thought a 256-team tournament would be possible back then, but in 20 years, who the hell knows what we'll have.

Anyway, NOW I had to dig through a stack of my old floppies and I did find the original software. And since we were good this year... ;-)
OK, a quick web search and I was able to find the Lance Haffner files for the 2005-06 NCAA tourney teams. So I just got to "coach" the Gaels in a rematch vs LSU--and lost by 8. Maybe I should go for the Seton Hall job. :biggrin:
 

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You can call me crazy but I like the idea of expansion. The more the merrier. Adding 4 teams will probably do little to help the mid majors but I don't see it hurting them too much. Those 15s and 16s for the most part come from the same leagues every single year. They deserve what they get because all they do is play each other and then sacrifice themselves for the guarantee games. That's one reason why they never get better. Let's say Iona has a good year, maybe one or two more wins than they had this year but loses in the MAACs (hey it could happen). Maybe they slide in like George Mason did this year if 4 more teams are added. They would get a 12 or 11, with a great shot at an upset. Sure, 3 more majors get in, but so what. Those extra at larges would not be going to the play in game.

One more time, I'll lobby for the 128 team idea. Kill the NIT and take the top 128 teams by RPI or other legitimate criteria stressing season long performance. No more automatics. Wouldn't it be great if you actually had to earn your way in to the tournament by being one of the top 128 teams. Not stink all year and win 3 games in March. Personally although I was glad my team went in 2002 there was a hollow feeling in it for me because we stunk all year long. We did not deserve to be in that tournament. In my scenario, you have to play well all season long and then you would be rewarded for a successful season. All 128 teams would be capable of winning a game, it would be awesome. The MAAC would benefit under this scenario because they would get 3 or 4 teams in every single year. Why should the MAAC be treated the same as the MEAC? That to me is not fair; this would correct that.

JG
 
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