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Discussion Starter #1

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Oladipo for the people
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Evan Turner isn't going to think Evan Turner should be on the bench.

I hate this move. You know who else will hate this move? Paul George, who saw Danny like an older brother.

Why are we making so many drastic changes in a year where we're clearly a top team?

I hate this move.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Trust the legend. He knows what he's doing.
I don't think he does.

Turner is going to take Grangers minutes? Where are the other 13 minutes a game hes accustomed to going to come from?

The guy is in a contract year, I'm sure he'll love having his minutes and role completely neutered.
 

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I don't think he does.

Turner is going to take Grangers minutes? Where are the other 13 minutes a game hes accustomed to going to come from?

The guy is in a contract year, I'm sure he'll love having his minutes and role completely neutered.
All he has to do is have a couple playoff games with 20+ points and there will be a line of GM's ready to throw money at him.
 

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Jesus Shuttlesworth
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I don't think he does.

Turner is going to take Grangers minutes? Where are the other 13 minutes a game hes accustomed to going to come from?

The guy is in a contract year, I'm sure he'll love having his minutes and role completely neutered.
Im sure he's not going to love it...but Im also sure that his agent is in his year about how important this playoff stretch is going to be for him financially next season and beyond. It's not like there was going to be a huge market for him this summer anyway, it's either going to go up or down even more pretty dramatically based on this run IMO.

Hopefully (for Indiana) that will be enough of motivation to keep him focused
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't think he does.

Turner is going to take Grangers minutes? Where are the other 13 minutes a game hes accustomed to going to come from?

The guy is in a contract year, I'm sure he'll love having his minutes and role completely neutered.
I would think that Mr. Turner will be okay with playing 13 minutes less to have a chance at winning a title.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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I would think that Mr. Turner will be okay with playing 13 minutes less to have a chance at winning a title.
Why?

Do you think in his time in Philly this year he was thinking "Man, I'd sure love a chance to play half my minutes on the bench and have a shot at a title."
Or do you think he was worrying about getting a big pay day on his next contract?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Here is Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons opinion on the deal:

Zach Lowe (3:52 EST)
The negative stuff: Turner can’t shoot from 3-point range, and he’s a very bad perimeter defender with so-so instincts and a disastrously slow and out of whack first step on defense.

The good-to-middling stuff: He’s a tricky ball-handler who does well on the pick-and-roll, has learned to draw fouls by taking one extra bounce toward the rim, and throws nifty passes in tight spaces. He’s a decent midrange shooter when open, even though he lost the corner 3 this season after flashing it last season. He’s putting up strong per-game stats — 17 points, 6 boards — but Philly’s insane pace and lack of overall talent around him are inflating those numbers.

Put broadly: Turner is just not that good an NBA player, and the things he does well require him having the basketball. Well, Lance Stephenson has already turned into the ball-handling captain of the second unit, even pushing C.J. Watson, a nominal point guard, mostly off the ball. Stephenson’s a good enough 3-point shooter to spot up around Turner-centric plays, but that would represent a large rejiggering of Indy’s second-unit offense late in the game. Turner isn’t providing much spacing as a spot-up guy around Stephenson, and he’s probably a defensive downgrade even from a hobbled Granger. And those bench units have survived based upon very stingy defense. Turner might be able to goose the offense a bit by pushing the base, running the occasional pick-and-roll, and driving past defenders when Stephenson kicks the ball to him on the perimeter. But we have to see that in action.

Bill Simmons (4:04 EST)
I concede all of those points. But Granger looks done to me – we just watched a 24-game sample size of someone who couldn’t shoot anymore and lost his brakes. You lose your brakes in the NBA, you’re done. They couldn’t have relied on him against Miami … and who knows if he would have broken down before then? Turner offers the following things: creates his own shot, played in big games (college and pro), a little fearless (irrationally so), can play either guard position, provides an extra set of young legs … oh, and remember his 26-point game on Opening Night when Philly shocked the defending champs? I’d rather take my chances with Turner than Granger in Round 3. Plus, they saved some money and added Lavoy Allen, who quietly averaged 20 minutes a game in the 2012 playoffs when Philly almost made the conference finals. You can throw either of those guys into a playoff game without wincing. You still liked the gamble for Indy, right?

Zach Lowe (4:10 EST)
Yes. This is a free rental of a strange NBA talent. The Pacers give up only an expiring and a future second-round pick, per a source familiar the deal. A team with shaky ball-handling tendencies could certainly use another ball-handler. I don’t see Allen playing real minutes with four rotation bigs and Andrew Bynum already around, but a center who can walk and chew gum is always nice to have around. Shows you how far the market for Turner fell, too. As I said before, picks are moving to some degree, but Indiana had already moved its 2014 pick for Luis Scola, and it appears only teams in urgent win-now mode are willing to even consider dealing first-rounders.

Bill Simmons (4:11 EST)
And as you predicted right after the Gortat trade happened, Phoenix was smart to grab that first-rounder for him right away, if only because you never know when the market might change? Clearly, it changed – Hawes and Turner fetched less than Gortat. I loved Indiana’s gamble on Turner, personally. Just don’t think they risked anything. Plus, I’m excited for how Grantland’s Mark Titus handles this one – his hometown Pacers acquiring his archenemy from his college days (the man Titus nicknamed “The Villain”), then going into battle against Miami and his good buddy Greg Oden in Round 3? Can you say “conflict of interest?”

Any chance Turner re-signs with the Pacers and haunts Titus for the rest of the decade?

Zach Lowe (4:15 EST)
Let’s not act as if Turner gives Indiana huge leverage when negotiating with Stephenson this summer. Both Turner and Stephenson are free agents, which is why Indiana can do this deal in the first place. They couldn’t flip Granger for a player who carried money into next season, since that would imperil Indy’s ability to re-sign Stephenson without going into the tax. Stephenson is clearly a better two-way player than Turner, he’s two years younger, and he will command a higher market value. The Pacers want Stephenson. They are not excited about Turner as a potential alternative.

But for this season? He should be an upgrade over Granger, who has lost his jumper and off-the-bounce oomph. And the Pacers won’t ask much of him. A healthy Turner also gives Indiana more flexibility in going small against Miami, though the Pacers have been loath to do that, and the Heat have been playing bigger of late. The Sixers get another second-round pick, a buyout candidate in Granger, and they hit the salary floor. Hooray! Thaddeus Young is weeping somewhere right now. Philly might not win five games the rest of the season.
http://grantland.com/features/the-trade-deadline-diary/
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Why?

Do you think in his time in Philly this year he was thinking "Man, I'd sure love a chance to play half my minutes on the bench and have a shot at a title."
Or do you think he was worrying about getting a big pay day on his next contract?
I don't see how he could have a problem with it.

A) He only has to suck it up for half a season. He can sign somewhere else after the season.

B) He has a chance at winning an NBA title.

C) With some actual talent around him, he might even perform better.

D) He will now be able to showcase what he's worth to possible buyers by playing meaningful games in the postseason. With at least 3 rounds of playoff basketball and with a much bigger audience paying attention to his game, he can really raise his stock if he performs well.


His stock is low right now and this trade proves it. He has a great opportunity to raise it in Indiana even with less minutes.
 

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Coming from a non-Pacer fan, I think it was a very good trade for Indiana.

I agree with Simmons in that I'd much rather take my chances with a younger more athletic and more versatile player in Turner when it comes to playing the Miami Heat in the conference finals. Granger might not even be healthy, and even if he is, seems a long shot to gain his rhythm back.

That is IMO the #1 reason for the trade...win in the short term.

A secondary reason is possibly insurance if they can't re-sign Lance. Lance is the priority but you could have far worse replacements than Turner if that doesn't happen. And Turner will probably be cheaper.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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I don't see how he could have a problem with it.

A) He only has to suck it up for half a season. He can sign somewhere else after the season.

B) He has a chance at winning an NBA title.

C) With some actual talent around him, he might even perform better.

D) He will now be able to showcase what he's worth to possible buyers by playing meaningful games in the postseason. With at least 3 rounds of playoff basketball and with a much bigger audience paying attention to his game, he can really raise his stock if he performs well.


His stock is low right now and this trade proves it. He has a great opportunity to raise it in Indiana even with less minutes.
His value was only low because of what Philly wanted for him. They wanted first rounders, which no one was willing to give up due to this years draft hype, or another expiring contract.

They're in full rebound mode. They could have swapped Turner for another quality player needing a fresh start somewhere, but it doesn't fit their long term plan.

As far as his value, I'm not seeing it going up. You're saying he just has to suck it up and he might perform better, which makes no sense to me. Hes going to go from 35 minutes a game to around 23. Probably less until he learns the system. At the very best you can hope his efficiency goes up, but his actual stats are going to go down.

We'll see. But I see bringing in Turner and Bynum in on the final stretch of a title run as a terrible idea. They're both looking for new contracts and have no vested interest in this team.

Time will tell which of us are correct on this.
 

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His value was only low because of what Philly wanted for him. They wanted first rounders, which no one was willing to give up due to this years draft hype, or another expiring contract.

They're in full rebound mode. They could have swapped Turner for another quality player needing a fresh start somewhere, but it doesn't fit their long term plan.

As far as his value, I'm not seeing it going up. You're saying he just has to suck it up and he might perform better, which makes no sense to me. Hes going to go from 35 minutes a game to around 23. Probably less until he learns the system. At the very best you can hope his efficiency goes up, but his actual stats are going to go down.

We'll see. But I see bringing in Turner and Bynum in on the final stretch of a title run as a terrible idea. They're both looking for new contracts and have no vested interest in this team.

Time will tell which of us are correct on this.

@R-Star: honest question: are youonly worried about the possibility of team chemistry being disrupted, or is there anything else?

Yes, the Pacers are in a title run. But they aren't playing like in the beggining of the season. And, frankly, offensive production from key players have been lacking lately.
George has been up-and-down, and his numbers have regressed a little. Hibbert is having a terrible offensive season. And neither Hill nor Stephenson are players who can consistently carry the offensive load.
Regarding Granger, well, he has been looking washed up. His shooting numbers are terrible. And he can't defend.

So you got Bynum WITHOUT losing the incumbent sub in Mahinmi. And Evan Turner who is a decent offensive player (yes, he doesn't have range in his shot and yes, his numbers are somewhat inflated due to playing in Philly).
On paper, it seems like a HUGE upgrade.

You're right that only time will tell. But Indiana has to beat Miami, and IMHO the addiction (sp?) of Bynum and Turner bolster their chances to do so.
 
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