Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

Who ya got?

1 - 20 of 105 Posts

·
Better Call Saul
Joined
·
13,184 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Y'all know the drill. Votes are counted in the poll and discussion is encouraged.

So far we've got

1.) Jordan
2.) Wilt
3.) Magic
4.) Kareem
5.) Russell
6.) Bird
7.) Shaq
8.) Duncan
9.) Hakeem
10.) Kobe
11.) ?
 

·
Jesus Shuttlesworth
Joined
·
17,071 Posts
The Big O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,500 Posts
Moses now then West - Oscar is still too soon, Bron and Doc are up before him too and maybe Clyde (who should be on this list as well)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Moses now then West - Oscar is still too soon, Bron and Doc are up before him too and maybe Clyde (who should be on this list as well)
Moses was a stat-padder who was a black whole on offense and didn't commit on defense.
As great as he was, i don't see how he can be regarded as being greater than The Logo.
 

·
Restore the Roar
Joined
·
7,393 Posts
Jerry West
Dr. J
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
David Robinson

Those are the five names I'm debating between. I feel like my keeping K.Malone and Robinson on my list is more my familiarity with them over Moses, Erving, and West. So, someone convince me. Swing my vote. Moses is the leader in the clubhouse for me. And no one can convince me to vote for Oscar yet - his complete and utter contempt for his own teammates disqualifies him for at least 5-6. He quite literally submarined his own greatness by turning his teammates and his teams against him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,500 Posts
Moses was a stat-padder who was a black whole on offense and didn't commit on defense.
As great as he was, i don't see how he can be regarded as being greater than The Logo.
how do you figure any of that?

his usage was never overwhelming and his peak efficiency was usually better than league average so no to stat padding and black hole and he was twice all nba team D so not sure where you get the D comment either

regardless of whether you put him ahead of Zeke from Cabin Creek or not your criticisms lack merit
 

·
Better Call Saul
Joined
·
13,184 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I could see West, Oscar, Moses, Dr. J, or LeBron here. I'm torn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
how do you figure any of that?

his usage was never overwhelming and his peak efficiency was usually better than league average so no to stat padding and black hole and he was twice all nba team D so not sure where you get the D comment either

regardless of whether you put him ahead of Zeke from Cabin Creek or not your criticisms lack merit
From a quick search using "Moses Malone stat padding"

http://bfc.sfsu.edu/cgi-bin/unwritten.pl?Dont_openly_pad_your_stats._-_Basketball

"And don't make a career out of padding your stats. A veteran NBA scout swears Moses Malone missed hundreds, possibly thousands, of shots on purpose so he could get his own rebound and put the ball back in, thus getting points and rebounds on the same possession. -- Seattle Post-Intelligencer"

I've heard/read about this many times regarding Mo.

On the other hand, he most be the greatest Non-Passer Center of the Great Centers. Considering he must have been douple-teamed plenty in the post, he sure didn't give the ball back.

Regarding defense (and i hope i'm rememberring correctly) i've read Moses taking pride on his 1,046 consecutive games without fouling out. And he is probably the Worst blocker of the Great Centers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
I've got Moses here. Yes, he had flaws, but in basketball terms his greatest crime was being built like too much of a tugboat to be a shotblocker like most of the other elite centers. He was an efficient and effective inside scorer, so a) why pass out for someone else to take a lower percentage shot? and b) why try to miss in order to set himself up for a rebound? He wanted to win. He carried an otherwise wretched Rockets squad to the NBA Finals, and was the Missing Piece who put the 76ers over the top. He wasn't gifted with the court vision of, say, Walton or Russell or Cowens, and was such a relentless offensive rebounder that it didn't make sense to put him in areas of the floor from where he'd have naturally piled up bigger assist totals.

Great defender? No. Good defender? Yes. Won three MVPs.

Not as gifted as Lebron, but achieved more (assessing at this point in Lebron's career). Not as charismatic as West, or as dramatic in his style of on-court play, but again he arguably achieved more. (West is probably next on this list for me, by the way).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
I've got Moses here. Yes, he had flaws, but in basketball terms his greatest crime was being built like too much of a tugboat to be a shotblocker like most of the other elite centers. He was an efficient and effective inside scorer, so a) why pass out for someone else to take a lower percentage shot?
That sould be said about almost any Great Center in NBA history.
And, between all of them (i didn't quite check every one of them, just going by memory!), Mo was the least able passer.
Oh, and his FG% wasn't exactly elite between Greatest Centers.

and b) why try to miss in order to set himself up for a rebound?
I don't know. But many people have said that regarding Mo.

He wanted to win. He carried an otherwise wretched Rockets squad to the NBA Finals,
That he did. Although the team they faced in the WCF was more wretched ;)

and was the Missing Piece who put the 76ers over the top.
Also true. But keep in mind that team was STACKED.

He wasn't gifted with the court vision of, say, Walton or Russell or Cowens, and was such a relentless offensive rebounder that it didn't make sense to put him in areas of the floor from where he'd have naturally piled up bigger assist totals.
Addressed above.

Great defender? No. Good defender? Yes.
Still not sold on his defense.

Won three MVPs.
Moses was great.
I remember reading about Larry Bird's first rookie game and a coach saying: "He (Bird) wasn't extraordinary. Only Moses is extraordinary".

Not as gifted as Lebron, but achieved more (assessing at this point in Lebron's career). Not as charismatic as West, or as dramatic in his style of on-court play, but again he arguably achieved more. (West is probably next on this list for me, by the way).
I'm partial to West, eventhough he didn't have the MVPs. But West played in the Time Of Giants...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Same, before I vote, I would like to hear more arguments of west of Moses.
Well, Moses has the individual accolades, concerning MVPs (Mo 3, Logo 0).

But Mo was a 7 time all-Nba (3 2nd team) and 2 time all-D (1 2nd team), while West was a 12 time All-Nba (2 2nd team) and 5 time all-D (1 2nd team), wich i think levels it all a bit.

But West was the Tragic Man. He played in 9 NBA Finals, only to win once (eventhough he is the sole player to be awarded Finals MVP while playing for the losing team). He had to play Pettit's Hawks and Russell's Celtics, and couldn't prevail, eventhough he played his heart out. Had West arrived in the NBA 10 years later, he would surely won much more.

Eventhough he didn't have much team success, his play was legendary.
From NBA.com:

"Combine a deadly jump shot, tenacious defense, obsessive perfectionism, unabashed confidence, and an uncompromising will to win, and you've got Jerry West, one of the greatest guards in NBA history.
During his 14-year playing career with the Los Angeles Lakers, West became synonymous with brilliant basketball. He was the third player in league history to reach 25,000 points (after Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson). He was an All-Star every year of his career and led Los Angeles to the NBA Finals nine times. He left the game holding records for career postseason scoring and the highest average in a playoff series.
West's statistical record only begins to tell his story. When the chips were down, West, with his lightning-quick release, was the guy the Lakers turned to for the big basket. Many players have been tagged with the nickname "Mr. Clutch," but none of them lived up to it as well as West did. He was responsible for perhaps the most famous buzzer-beater of all time: a 60-foot swish that tied Game 3 of the 1970 NBA Finals against the New York Knicks.
West was motivated by a relentless drive to succeed. Years after a game in which he hit 16 of 17 shots from the field, sank all 12 free throw attempts, and notched 12 rebounds, 12 assists and 10 blocked shots, West told the National Sports Daily, "Defensively, from a team standpoint, I didn't feel I played very well. Very rarely was I satisfied with how I played." This obsessive quest for perfection was a constant during West's playing years, and it continued in his later roles as coach and general manager of the Lakers and, currently, as president of basketball operations for the Memphis Grizzlies.
Equally legendary was West's tolerance for pain. Not blessed with great size, strength, or dribbling ability, West made up for these deficiencies with pure hustle and an apparent lack of regard for his body. He broke his nose at least nine times. On more than one occasion West had to be helped to the court before games in which he ultimately scored 30 or 40 points
."

This were the times when it was rugged in the court. Sharman took a swing at West after he nailed like 7 straight shots in his face. People nowadays talk about the "beatings" a player endures driving the lane? West sustained much, much more.

West was a great scorer, a great defender and an excelent passer. Even Jordan was quoted as saying " i wish i could have played Jerry West. Just to see which one of us was the better player". And West is right there with Bird, Reggie, Kobe and Mike as one of the greatest clutch players in history.

I have the impression that, if West had won a couple of MVPs (he played in the times of Russell, Oscar, Wilt and Pettit) and a couple more rings, he would be a sure-fire Top-5 ever.
 

·
Better Call Saul
Joined
·
13,184 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I've narrowed it down to West, Moses, and Oscar.

I'm still leaning Moses.

But West is my boy, one of the few players that I really and truly wish I could have watched play. He's the most important Laker of all time and the blue print for all shooting guards that have come since him.

Oscar is making a decent case too. I was strongly against him going in the top ten because I feel like he is one of the more overrated players ever, but 11 does not seem like a reach in any way, shape or form.
 

·
Restore the Roar
Joined
·
7,393 Posts
I went with West, the argument from Paulo won me over. Looks like it was a lost vote - Moses vs Lebron. Not a lot of people saying Lebron in the thread, considering he's leading the vote right now.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
100,045 Posts
If we're talking greatest basketball players of all-time here, shouldn't Julius Erving get a little more consideration here with his combined ABA/NBA work? I'm going with LeBron, but I think Dr. J is in that next group with Moses, Oscar and the Logo.
 
1 - 20 of 105 Posts
Top