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Who ya got?

  • Shaquille O'Neal

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • Kobe Bryant

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Tim Duncan

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Larry Bird

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • Hakeem Olajuwan

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Oscar Robertson

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Jerry West

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • LeBron James

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Julius Erving

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moses Malone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Karl Malone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Someone else (Please specify)

    Votes: 1 2.9%
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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry everybody I was going through a move from Dallas back to school this week and so I've been busy/haven't had consistent internet. But now I'm settled in so we can continue with this. So far we've got

1.) Jordan
2.) Wilt
3.) Magic
4.) Kareem
5.) Russell
6.) ?
 

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Restore the Roar
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I'm going Shaq. For all of the reasons I mentioned in the vote for the #5 best player.
 

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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #5
The people I'm considering for this spot are Shaq, Bird, Duncan, and Kobe. I think that Shaq's peak separates himself from the other three and I went with him. Number 7 is when things will start getting really interesting.
 

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I went with Shaq as well...what people fail to consider with a player like Bird is how he'd fare today against the bigger, stronger, and faster players..

Now perhaps that's not fair..perhaps Bird himself would've been stronger and faster if he had as strict of a fitness and dietary regimen as trainers do today...but that also suggests that Bird would be a radically different player and I don't think he would... Bird would've been a tall pure shooter that hustled...his closest style of play would be Dirk if you really think about it..obviously with much different intangibles..

But because he won a crapload, had the heart of a champion, I feel like we have this "rudy" complex with him.. Great? Of Course..but when you stack him up individually and measure his game impact to Shaq, Kobe, or even (gasp) LeBron..and I just don't think he's as good at basketball.
 

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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #7
Bird went up against players that were nearly as athletic as they are today and dominated. There wouldn't be any measureable difference. The closest comparison to what he would do today is a shorter prime Dirk that had LeBron's passing ability. That player is arguably the best player in the world today.

Tim Duncan isn't a great athlete relative to some of his contemporaries but he's going to be voted in shortly as well. Athletic ability only gets you so far, just ask Demar Derozan.
 

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Bird went up against players that were nearly as athletic as they are today and dominated. There wouldn't be any measureable difference. The closest comparison to what he would do today is a shorter prime Dirk that had LeBron's passing ability. That player is arguably the best player in the world today.

Tim Duncan isn't a great athlete relative to some of his contemporaries but he's going to be voted in shortly as well. Athletic ability only gets you so far, just ask Demar Derozan.

That's true too and very fair...

That said..I think LeBron gets the better of Bird just like I think Shaq gets the better of Russell..the raw ability is no match for the skill but it can be the thing that puts something over the top, all things being equal...

I'm not trying to discount Bird to the level that my last post made it seem..I just think we have another handful or so of better basketball players
 

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BBB.net Archivist
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Dwight Howard
 

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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #10
That's true too and very fair...

That said..I think LeBron gets the better of Bird just like I think Shaq gets the better of Russell..the raw ability is no match for the skill but it can be the thing that puts something over the top, all things being equal...

I'm not trying to discount Bird to the level that my last post made it seem..I just think we have another handful or so of better basketball players
One could certainly make a LeBron > Bird argument based solely on peak preformance and have a valid case. I would not personally make that argument but I completely understand the logic. Same with Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan.
 

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I really want to hear the arguments between Shaq/Bird/Hakeem.

I'm hesitating between Hakeem and Shaq here but Bird was the nemesis of the #3 on this list, hard to not have him that much lower than 6.
 

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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #13
Hakeem isn't as good as Bird or Shaq and should not be in the conversation yet. He's also not better than Duncan or Kobe.

I still think that Shaq is the only one that separates himself from the other three. Kobe, Duncan, and Bird should all be 7, 8, 9 in whatever order.
 

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Better Call Saul
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Discussion Starter #15
Greatest small forward ever? Sure. But does that make him better than Shaq? I don't know.
 

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Have a GREAT day!
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1 MVP for Shaq really doesn't sound dominant like we all saw on the court. Bird had 3 MVPs during the same years that Magic, Jordan, Moses Malone, Isaiah Thomas, etc were all playing. The quality of the Center position declined after the mid 90s and Shaq still couldn't pick up another MVP? Debate this before I cast a vote.

Did he deserve it over Iverson and Duncan during the first three peat? Despite Shaq winning a title that year it is hard for me to take away Iverson's or Duncan's.
 

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Shaq was a better player than Iverson and Duncan those years. Best player doesn't always win it. Malone won it over Jordan twice in a three year span. Was he really better than Mike?
 

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MVP is not an argument strong enough for me to give it to bird over Shaq.

What makes Shaq better than Hakeem though? Sure, he had less title, but he also had much heavier competition. The title argument is not valid IMO. Shaq only really won 3 with the lakers. He wasn't the man of the team in 06. He was a big part but he was not batman.

MJ even said it himself that had he met Hakeem in the finals, he wouldn't think that he could win against him.

If we break down the competitors, Hakeem had MJ, Malone, Barkley, Robinson, piston bad boys, Ewing.
Shaq had a competition of AI, Kidd, Duncan, Dirk, the superstar less pistons, stojakovic, webber, nash, you can sort of add lebron, wade and Kobe on that list but Shaq was on the decline and played with all three of them too.

Hakeem had the dream shake and was much more skilled with the ball than Shaq. You out Hakeem vs Shaq, both in their prime and I think that Hakeem schools Shaq.

So both in terms of competition and skills, Hakeem has the upper hand for me. The only thing that Shaq has more is titles and I don't think they are fair measure sticks.
 

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It's not necessarily about being more skilled though. KG is more skilled than Shaq but I don't think anyone would rather have him.
 

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Hakeem in 1994 vs Shaq in 2000...I think Shaq wins that head to head.
 
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