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Discussion Starter #1
This is the first truly questionable move that Masai has made this offseason(of course, not counting the drafting of Bruno). I don't think Vasquez is worth more than 4 mil a year much less over 6. I guess the only positive here is that it's only a 2 year deal.

This also means that we no longer have room to add a backup SF and center. Not happy with this at all.
 

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This doesn't really have much effect in terms of our flexibility, as I'm quite sure the MLE is still preserved. There will have been minimal room to operate below the cap even if he were to be signed for 4-5M so we're not really hamstrung at all. Maybe it cuts into some cap space next season but this isn't be an awful contract to unload. I agree that it's probably a bit much for Vasquez but since it doesn't really affect what we can do with personnel I'm not too mad.
 

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This doesn't really have much effect in terms of our flexibility, as I'm quite sure the MLE is still preserved. There will have been minimal room to operate below the cap even if he were to be signed for 4-5M so we're not really hamstrung at all. Maybe it cuts into some cap space next season but this isn't be an awful contract to unload. I agree that it's probably a bit much for Vasquez but since it doesn't really affect what we can do with personnel I'm not too mad.
Very good post.

@Knick Killer, $6.5 million annual salary is on the high end for a backup point guard, but we value Vasquez as more than that and the reasonable two-year term allows us to maintain our flexibility. Also, Vasquez has proven himself a capable starter in the league, averaging career-highs of 13.9 points and 9.0 assists while finishing second in Most Improved Player voting with New Orleans in 2012-13. Vasquez, Lou Williams and Lowry in the backcourt is nice, it's deep enough to serve as insurance if any were to go down with injury.

Going back to @-James- in response to @seifer0406, the NBA salary cap is set at just over $63 million for next season, the tax level at $76.8 million, so we figure to have most of our mid-level exception - roughly $5 million - to spend on the final three open roster spots.

Overall, I'm happy.
 

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this rate for 4 years was what i would have liked to see for vasquez as our starting pg if lowry was going to cost up more than 10mil per season. since we already shelled out so much for lowry i was surprised to see him signed for this much. he's a good player but i don't like the idea of paying this much for a backup.
 

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this rate for 4 years was what i would have liked to see for vasquez as our starting pg if lowry was going to cost up more than 10mil per season. since we already shelled out so much for lowry i was surprised to see him signed for this much. he's a good player but i don't like the idea of paying this much for a backup.
Why? Vasquez as our starting PG wouldn't have won us shit.

Vasquez on this deal behind Lowry gives us a 2 years window to accomplish something in the East.
 

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I somewhat agree, @c_dog, it's probably a reach for a backup, and I also thought Patterson for $6M was a reach as well, to be honest.

But realistically if we had shaved $1M, $2M, and another $2M off of the starting salaries for Patterson, Vazquez and Lowry, respectively, by my calculations we would be a little less than $5M below the cap which is less than what we are allowed to offer with the mid-level exception. Again, these "overpays", which I agree are probably too much, will have no functional effect on roster flexibility since neither these "ideal" contracts, nor the real life deals see us crossing into the luxury tax. So in the end, I really don't care given this is someone else's money.

We've been overpaying for our guys, but I don't think it's been by nearly enough to get frustrated over.
 

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Why? Vasquez as out starting PG wouldn't have won us shit.

Vasquez on this deal behind Lowry gives us a 2 years window to accomplish something in the East.
vasquez as our starting pg might be enough to make the playoffs in the east. we can save that 12 mil to sign someone who may be more of a difference maker for us. i'm a believer in signing players to what they're worth. i'm looking at the grizzlies roster and they don't have any superstars but they have a bunch of good players on reasonable deals. i think that's how the raptors should construct their team as well, around good players on fair deals.

lowry had a great season and i understand a lot of fans really like him right now. but i'm just not sold given his tract record, not at that price. but what's done is done. i think adding lowry might get the raptors to the second round whereas with just vasquez they'd be fighting for the last few playoff spots. not sure if that's worth 12mil.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
lowry had a great season and i understand a lot of fans really like him right now. but i'm just not sold given his tract record, not at that price. but what's done is done. i think adding lowry might get the raptors to the second round whereas with just vasquez they'd be fighting for the last few playoff spots. not sure if that's worth 12mil.
I don't understand your constant pessimism especially considering the nature of the current Eastern conference. Assuming that Miami keeps its core, which other team in the East are beyond our reach in terms of talent? The Pacers barely made it out of the first round and are almost certain to be worse next year without Stephenson. The Nets are paying 90 mil in luxury tax next year for a declining roster not to mention plenty of uncertainty after Kidd's departure. The Bulls could be a good team but it all depends on Rose. Outside of Washington I don't see any other team in the East that's clearly on the upswing. To write us off as being limited to the second round seems awfully pessimistic in my opinion.
 

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I don't understand your constant pessimism especially considering the nature of the current Eastern conference. Assuming that Miami keeps its core, which other team in the East are beyond our reach in terms of talent? The Pacers barely made it out of the first round and are almost certain to be worse next year without Stephenson. The Nets are paying 90 mil in luxury tax next year for a declining roster not to mention plenty of uncertainty after Kidd's departure. The Bulls could be a good team but it all depends on Rose. Outside of Washington I don't see any other team in the East that's clearly on the upswing. To write us off as being limited to the second round seems awfully pessimistic in my opinion.
it's called being realistic. last season was the only season where the club actually exceeded expectations in 20 years of raptors history. the fact that the eastern conference was absolute poop and half the teams were tanking probably helped with their overall record too. they lost to the geriatric nets in the first round and made blatche look like an all-star. (all this despite lowry supposedly being a superior player to deron williams as porn player would claim)

you think a core of derozan, valaciunas, lowry is enough to compete for an NBA championship? it's a second round team, maybe ECF if(big big if) everything is clicking on all cylinders in the pathetic eastern conference. i would like my team to be a little better than to just settle for mediocrity.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
it's called being realistic. last season was the only season where the club actually exceeded expectations in 20 years of raptors history. the fact that the eastern conference was absolute poop and half the teams were tanking probably helped with their overall record too. they lost to the geriatric nets in the first round and made blatche look like an all-star. (all this despite lowry supposedly being a superior player to deron williams as porn player would claim)

you think a core of derozan, valaciunas, lowry is enough to compete for an NBA championship? it's a second round team, maybe ECF if(big big if) everything is clicking on all cylinders in the pathetic eastern conference. i would like my team to be a little better than to just settle for mediocrity.
You didn't answer my question, which team in the East do you think we have no chance of beating next year?

The bottom line is there are going to be 2 teams that make it out of the 2nd round and I don't see how we don't have a chance to be one of those teams. And Lowry did outplay Deron Williams, go ahead and look up the stats. I don't know what you're talking about with Andray Blatche, he averaged 7 points a game while playing 15 min a night during our series. It was our inability to guard Joe Johnson that cost us the series. Our inexperience was also a big reason. If the 2 teams meet again next year I don't expect Terrence Ross to be a complete non factor and I don't expect DeRozan to disappear multiple games.

As for competing for a championship the answer is no, the current core that we have isn't championship caliber. However we have a very good foundation with DeRozan/Lowry/Jonas. We have a boatload of cap room next year that we can use to add to the core.
 

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You are being unrealistic. Only a handful of teams are legitimate title contenders each season and it's usually based on luck, or the prestige of the franchise (Dallas is an outlier here). There's a reason that the same handful of teams win it every year. Is $12M worth the difference between being a fringe playoff team and a championship contender? Hell yeah it is. That is not being mediocre, that is being a good team.
 

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I also would like to know the player that's not Kyle Lowry that we can sign for 12 million that will significantly bolster our chance of competing for a championship. Don't tell me that Tony Parker only makes 12.5 mil because the reality is you're not signing Parker as a free agent for that kind of money. The same goes with Steph Curry. Just because Curry makes 10.5 mil shouldn't give you the illusion that a top 5 point guard in the NBA is worth 10.5 mil. You need to consider the scenarios of each player when they signed those contracts. Just because DeRozan makes less than 10 mil a year doesn't mean we simply ignore the risk the Raptors took back then by signing DD to a big contract before he proved himself to be a good player. Just because Curry makes 10.5 mil doesn't mean that we should ignore the risk that the Warriors took by giving him a long term contract when his ankles broke every 5 games. Just because Parker makes 12.5 mil a year doesn't mean that we should ignore the high championship possibilities that the Spurs provide for Parker.
 

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regarding which teams we can't beat, it's still too early in the offseason. things can change really quickly. but pacers and one of cavs/heat should be the class of the east. i think wizards can become really good, and if rose is playing at even 80% they will be pretty good. hawks with horford and teague remain pretty consistent. i'm not quite ready to write off the nets yet because i know people here love to say how deron williams is washed up but i think he's still a top pg in the league. even with a geriatric supporting cast they can still give the raptors run of their money. then there is the knicks with melo. hornets with hayward will be interesting to watch.

i think the raptors can be anywhere from being the fourth best team to fighting for the playoffs with lowry. the team needs to continue to play well. the east is weak but they still need to play hard every night.

you can't call this team a contender because they realistically have no chance of making it out of ECF. at best they are a good team that makes it to the second round. at this point i would be happy just to see the raptors win one playoff series(haven't seen that in years).

and i'm not sure who the raps can sign with that 12mil on lowry, but i do know it's overpaying. certainly if one of the young guys were to develop into a good player you might rather lock them up long term. it would suck to be unable to retain your guys because you overcommited to lowry and you don't want to pay luxury tax.
 

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regarding which teams we can't beat, it's still too early in the offseason. things can change really quickly. but pacers and one of cavs/heat should be the class of the east. i think wizards can become really good, and if rose is playing at even 80% they will be pretty good. hawks with horford and teague remain pretty consistent. i'm not quite ready to write off the nets yet because i know people here love to say how deron williams is washed up but i think he's still a top pg in the league. even with a geriatric supporting cast they can still give the raptors run of their money. then there is the knicks with melo. hornets with hayward will be interesting to watch.
It's analysis like this that make me question whether or not you actually follow the NBA. Did you miss the Pacers struggle last year in the playoffs? They were 1 game away from losing to a team with a starting 5 of Milisap/Carroll/Antic/Teague/Korver and you're telling me that we have very little shot at beating them? You are more of a homer to the Pacers than any Pacer fan. Moreover next year they are almost certainly going to lose one of their best players to free agency and we still wouldn't have a chance against them? That's just ridiculous.

Wizards can definitely be good but they are also unproven. On paper we are pretty evenly matched as long as JV and Ross continue to develop. Wall is definitely better than Lowry but DeRozan is currently better than Beal. Again, I don't see us being unable to compete with them.

As for the Bulls it depends on the health of Rose. I would be surprised if he makes it all the way back and the Bulls become one of the top teams again. That would make one hell of a comeback story if it is true.
 
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