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Discussion Starter #21
you can't call this team a contender because they realistically have no chance of making it out of ECF. at best they are a good team that makes it to the second round. at this point i would be happy just to see the raptors win one playoff series(haven't seen that in years).

and i'm not sure who the raps can sign with that 12mil on lowry, but i do know it's overpaying. certainly if one of the young guys were to develop into a good player you might rather lock them up long term. it would suck to be unable to retain your guys because you overcommited to lowry and you don't want to pay luxury tax.
I'm not calling the team a contender but I'm going to say that they have a realistic shot of making it to the ECF. I would be surprised if they don't at least make it to the 2nd round next year.

As for Lowry's contract you valuing him at 8mil/year is clearly far from his market value. You do know that at 8 mil a year he would be making the same as Avery Bradley and slightly less than Channing Fyre. He would be making half of what Gordon Hayward and Chandler Parsons. How much a player is worth is determined by how much other players are making. In the year 2014 8 mil a year just doesn't get you as far as in years past.

I also don't see how an alternative method to spend that money would result in us being contenders considering that whoever you have in mind would likely cost more than what you have in mind. Moreover even if we go by your player value, overpaying a guy by 4 mil shouldn't be the difference between being contenders and being a mediocre team like you are suggesting.
 

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Pacers are the #1 #2 team in the east. They will be fine even without Stevenson. Someone will step up at that sg spot may it be Evan turner or some undervalued young cat waiting for his chance. The team was in a slump but it doesn't take away what they accomplished in the last 2 years. With Lebron in Cleveland as I highly suspected, the pacers remain a top 2 team in the east. If you think 2 months of a historic slump changes how good the pacers are then you sure have a short term memory. I guess that's why you think Lowry is worth 12 mil.

My problem with Lowry is doubting he can live up to his contract. Dude had a career season after being a disappointment in his first season here. How good is Lowry really? I suspect somewhere between 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. I maintain that I would have paid no more than 10mil per year.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Pacers are the #1 #2 team in the east. They will be fine even without Stevenson. Someone will step up at that sg spot may it be Evan turner or some undervalued young cat waiting for his chance. The team was in a slump but it doesn't take away what they accomplished in the last 2 years. With Lebron in Cleveland as I highly suspected, the pacers remain a top 2 team in the east. If you think 2 months of a historic slump changes how good the pacers are then you sure have a short term memory. I guess that's why you think Lowry is worth 12 mil.

My problem with Lowry is doubting he can live up to his contract. Dude had a career season after being a disappointment in his first season here. How good is Lowry really? I suspect somewhere between 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. I maintain that I would have paid no more than 10mil per year.
Did you even watch Evan Turner play? He was so bad last year with the Pacers that he's unlikely to be back with the team this year. Which "Young Cat" are you talking about? It surely can't be someone that's on the Pacers right now. Is it Trevor Ariza lol? Xavier Henry?

Again, let me remind you that I never said that the Pacers are worse than the Raptors. All I said was given what happened last year in the playoffs it is ludicrous to suggest that they are unbeatable with our current core. Not even Pacer fans would agree with you on that point.

When you feel like explaining to me how an extra 2 mil a year would change the fate of this team or heck, how to better spend that 12 mil a year in order to turn the team into a contender go ahead and throw it out there. This better not be let's rebuild and tank and hope for the best.
 

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The difference between $10M and $12M of someone else's money shouldn't be a big deal to anyone, especially if it has no effect on his or her team's ability to change its roster.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
btw, I'm not knocking on the strategy of tanking for talent. That is a viable strategy but the purpose of tanking is to acquire a foundation of young talents which we now have with DeRozan/Jonas/Ross. It is unreasonable to repeat the process until a Durant or Lebron comes along because theres a higher possibility that those players never come. With the current developments I'm happy with where the Raptors are currently at and I'm optimistic with the team's outlook for the future.
 

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i'm not even talking about rebuilding either. just signing good players to good value contracts and letting players who aren't worth it walk.

those overpaid contracts always end up biting people in the butt. it just affects your flexibility. there are multiple scenarios where you might need that extra 2 mils of cap space. you've all been watching basketball long enough to know. so don't give me this "but what's 2 mil when it's not your own money" talk.

pacers will find someone. like i said it's too early in the offseason to know. raptors addressed the sf issue with james johnson. pacers may find a courtney lee level sg to fill that position fairly easily. those are serviceable guys who can be added to teams if GM's were less lazy. instead of bidding for the hottest agents actually do some homework. think outside the box sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
i'm not even talking about rebuilding either. just signing good players to good value contracts and letting players who aren't worth it walk.

those overpaid contracts always end up biting people in the butt. it just affects your flexibility. there are multiple scenarios where you might need that extra 2 mils of cap space. you've all been watching basketball long enough to know. so don't give me this "but what's 2 mil when it's not your own money" talk.

pacers will find someone. like i said it's too early in the offseason to know. raptors addressed the sf issue with james johnson. pacers may find a courtney lee level sg to fill that position fairly easily. those are serviceable guys who can be added to teams if GM's were less lazy. instead of bidding for the hottest agents actually do some homework. think outside the box sometimes.
I don't really know what to say other to laugh at this point. If your GM's grand championship plan crumbles due to 2 million dollars chances are you never had a championship plan to begin with. What you have in reality is an illusion of a championship plan and a hilarious sad excuse to why that plan failed. But jokes aside I don't really know where you're going with this. If we establish that Lowry is worth 10 mil a year and it's better to have him than not to have him (you still have the opportunity to argue why it's better to let Lowry walk and provide an alternative plan in that case), then this discussion about his contract is closed in my books. 2 mil a year just not worth the time to argue in my opinion.

As for the Pacers discussion, sure they could strike gold in free agency, but if I'm betting on it it's far more likely that they get someone that's not nearly as good as Stephenson. Again, whether or not they do really makes no difference to our little discussion. The point I made was that the Pacers weren't nearly as good as you seem to think they are last year. They struggled for the latter part of the season and are likely to lose their 2nd best player (or 3rd if Hibbert finds his old self). To suggest that the Raptors have no chance against them seems unreasonable.
 

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$2M in trade scenarios will be negligible down the road. This season, that $2M will push us past the salary floor required to make the MLE available. It is effectively making us more flexible this offseason. So if its a matter of not liking the sound of Lowry for $12M, then yeah, I'm not worrying about someone else's money.

And who are these value free agents that the Raptors should pursue to put together a championship contender anyways? I agree, this team as it is maxes out as maybe a 2nd Round/ECF team but again, that is not a bad thing. Every contender has required some luck so it will probably take some extraordinary leaps from Lowry, DeRozan, Jonas and Ross for the Raps to join the top 5-8 teams in the league.
 

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Moreover, the Pacers absolutely blew it this past season personnel wise with the additions of Turner and Bynum, and flipping Green, Plumlee and a 1st rounder (which is gold with today's luxury tax) for Scola. They struck complete gold with Stevenson and George - I'm not sure how many expected the former to be an all-star and the latter to be one of the seven best players in the league. I'll give Larry Bird's tutelage some due, but drafting studs is largely affected by luck. There was a time where taking Westbrook fourth was considered a huge risk, like Exum this year.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
After next year Fields/Hayes contract both come off the books, giving us 13 million of cap space to work with. With Amir's body breaking down I don't think he will demand that much money if we keep him at all, we almost definitely will add another piece next year in free agency. The fact that we are spending 21.5 mil a year for 2 allstar players for the next 2 years shouldn't be overlooked.
 

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the contract of derozan is pretty awesome... an all-star caliber player who gets paid less than 10mil per season. there were talks of how he was overpaid at the time too(but not from me).
 

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Discussion Starter #33
the contract of derozan is pretty awesome... an all-star caliber player who gets paid less than 10mil per season. there were talks of how he was overpaid at the time too(but not from me).
The way I evaluate whether a team overpaid for a player (beside the obvious point of whether the player actually fits the team) is whether or not the team could've signed the player using less than what they ended up paying. If the market value of DeRozan at the time when the contract was signed was only 7 million and we ended up paying 9 million for him, even if he becomes the next Lebron 2-3 years down the road it still doesn't change the fact that we "overpaid" for him. I don't recall the exact conversation Raptor fans had when the DeRozan contract was signed, but I seem to recall that the conversation was more along the lines of not getting a good enough deal for an unproven player. As it turned out that was one of the smarter decisions that BC made during his tenure.
 

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6.5? Whaaaaat?

I like the guy, but come on man.

He is high character. I loved it when he said "we have to play with some balls" during the brooklyn series.

Someone with that kind of attitude that fits the raptors offensive philosophy to a t deserves 6.5 mill.
 
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