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Discussion Starter #1
For all of you who bashed what Rudy did or didnt do as a coach I think we all know he was better for this team, not Frank.. Or you can believe what you want it doesnt matter really :laugh:

Atkins: We would have made the playoffs under Rudy

Asked afterward what would have happened if Rudy Tomjanovich hadn't resigned as coach Feb.2 and been replaced by Frank Hamblen, Atkins said: "We'd be a playoff team, without question."

"We played a lot more together (under Tomjanovich)," Atkins said. "The game was a lot easier. Right now, we're in the triangle offense, and people are not really familiar with it. Spacing's bad. You have no place to attack and drive. A lot of time we settle for outside shots. We're in Game 67, and guys' legs are tired and the shots are coming up short.

"Look at the amount of jump shots and the amount of bad shots we shoot and the amount of bad shots we shoot fighting the shot clock - then look at how we played when we ran pick-and-roll plays and were putting guys in spots where they were able to attack. We played a lot better. We're struggling to score 100 points now."

Asked why he didn't shoot more in such a critical game, Bryant said: "We're not experienced enough to go deep in the triangle where other guys on the floor know how to get me the ball in certain situations. They're still trying to figure out their rhythm and where their opportunities are going to come from."

So Bryant was asked if the Lakers would have been better off leaving Tomjanovich's pro sets in place rather than trying the triangle for the last 2 1/2 months of the season.

"In hindsight, who knows?" Bryant said. "The system that Ham is trying to put in is obviously a great system. I think considering the circumstances, guys have been learning it extremely well. But you can't lose sight of why we're losing ballgames; we're losing ballgames because we're giving up 115-117 points."

Atkins, who ran most of Tomjanovich's pick-and-rolls, agreed with that: "We have no cohesiveness, we have no togetherness and, to be honest with you, it's frustrating."

"I just see a lot of pain in the Lakers," Karl said after the game. "Their body language, their demeanor, the relations."

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Hamblen blasts Effort

"The second half, I thought our guys quit to some degree," Hamblen said. "I was really disappointed when Caron Butler stole the ball, went full length for a layup, missed the layup, and his four teammates stood at the other end of the floor within the three-point area, not making one effort to run down there just in case he missed the basket, to put it back in. Not one of them."

"I ain't got no comment to that, man," said Atkins, who had 10 points, four in the second half. "I don't have no comment to that. I ain't going to never give up. We give up? I don't know nothing about that. I speak for myself, I'm going to give it everything I've got as long as I'm out there."

Bryant had 18 points, only four in the second half, and made five of 13 shots.

"I don't know," Bryant said when asked about Hamblen's assessment. "I felt that we played pretty hard. We got down by 20-something points, we might have hung our heads a little bit, but I felt like we battled hard. They just played much better than we did."

"It's their livelihood," Hamblen said. "They're starting to erode my immune system, I'll tell you that."

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That's pretty bad when a player comes out in public and says the coach isn't the right guy for the job. I don't think Hamblen ever had the players' respect, and as a result they've tuned him out.

We're stuck with him though because he's a link to PJ.
 

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So now it's Hamblins fault. What about Phil and that crazy triangle offense that confuses everyone and was a reason why Kobe was being "held back" to his full potential. Or how about Vlade and George? They were very selfish because they were hurt and didn't play, which was another reason The Lakers have this bad record. :curse:
 

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Brian34Cook said:
"In hindsight, who knows?" Bryant said. "The system that Ham is trying to put in is obviously a great system. I think considering the circumstances, guys have been learning it extremely well. But you can't lose sight of why we're losing ballgames; we're losing ballgames because we're giving up 115-117 points."
At least Kobe understands what the real deal is. It's funny that Chucky Atkins is the one complaining about the offense considering he is the worst defensive player on the team. No offense will win with the crap effort we've put on the floor on the other side of the ball.
 

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tatahbenitez said:
So now it's Hamblins fault.
Of course it's Hamblen's fault. The players lost any kind of respect for him when as soon as he got the job, he said it was doomed. Hamblen doesn't have the slightest clue how to be a head coach.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK so the reason they are losing isnt just because of Frank but because of the players.. Dont get me wrong they are part of the reason but Frank is just as much. Just seemed to me like the team was more looser under Rudy T despite how much we hated that 3 pt barrage. Now that Frank is the interim coach, he's came out and said He never wanted the job, this player isnt good, Yada Yada Yada.. Sure it may be correct to some extent but the team doesnt have any feel or respect for Frank after that and that translates onto the court. Also if this was any other coach that lost 7 staight games he'd be fired or close to being fired but he's part of the Phil Jackson whatever you wanna call it.. Bla bla blaaa!!

Hamblen cant coach this team, he's an assistant.. There's nothing wrong with what Chucky said too me.. The team responded better to Rudy.. You dont have to be blind to not see that!
 

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hamblen is a terrible coach. and hes such a -edited- blaming everything on the players. Bla bla bla they dont hustle. if he didnt suck *** at his job we couldve definately made the playoffs

Let the system edit the word. Don't spell it out.
 

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Hard to be 20/20 and say the Lakers would have done better under Rudy T. Especially since it was under Rudy T and not Hamblen that the Lakers started putting in the triangle because his offense wasn't getting the job done.

The Lakers overachieved like the Cavs early in the season against very soft schedules. Now just like the Cavs against better competition, the weaknesses of this club are showing. The Lakers aren't that talented and all this finger pointing really doesn't obscure that one fact
 

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The Lakers don't have players that are physically able to play defense at a high level for 48 minutes. That's the problem in a nutshell. Nothing more and nothing less, and it certainly has little to do with the triangle.
 

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EHL said:
The Lakers don't have players that are physically able to play defense at a high level for 48 minutes. That's the problem in a nutshell. Nothing more and nothing less, and it certainly has little to do with the triangle.
Ding ding ding!
 

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I'm sorry but you guys should have no right to blame Hamblen. You complained about Rudy all the damn time. I'm starting to think some of you won't be satisfied with any coach, or blame any coach when things go wrong.
 

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Pioneer10 said:
Hard to be 20/20 and say the Lakers would have done better under Rudy T. Especially since it was under Rudy T and not Hamblen that the Lakers started putting in the triangle because his offense wasn't getting the job done.

The Lakers overachieved like the Cavs early in the season against very soft schedules. Now just like the Cavs against better competition, the weaknesses of this club are showing. The Lakers aren't that talented and all this finger pointing really doesn't obscure that one fact
I agree. I feel that this is a key point that many fail to take into consideration. Looking back at the schedule at the start of the season, we had many games against easier opponents, and now, we're faced with playoff-bound teams every night. That's one major reason why we're struggling now.

One can blame the coaching, but I'd say, it's because we are simply lacking the players capable of winning tough games for us- we're just not a good team to begin with. Particularly on the defensive end. Our defense is just appalling, and looking at the stats, we actually have a worse defense than the likes of the Knicks, Warriors and even Dallas, who has been ridiculed in the recent years for their lack of defense.
 

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Jamel Irief said:
I'm sorry but you guys should have no right to blame Hamblen. You complained about Rudy all the damn time. I'm starting to think some of you won't be satisfied with any coach, or blame any coach when things go wrong.
This has nothing to do with us. The players have virtually quit on Hamblen.
 

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Locke said:
This has nothing to do with us. The players have virtually quit on Hamblen.
Of course, I was talking about the people that constantly *****ed about Rudy. Keeping him was the best option.
 

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I think people are forgetting that Rudy quit... As far as we know he wasnt forced out. At least thats what Rudy says, and he has been scouting for the team since he left. So wouldnt it be Rudys fault for leaving? If they could have made the playoffs with him?

Also, Jeanine Bus and Kurt Rambus on 570 earlyer this week said the biggest problem with the Lakers Defense is the fact that during the entire off-season Rudy never ONCE ran defensive drills, and only ran it a few times during the season before resigning. How exactly would that be Franks fault?

I love how everyone was excited that the lakers Under Rudy were going 2 out of every 3 games winning, when they had probably the most relaxed and easier schedule of the year at that time. Has anyone even looked at the there schedule since Kobe returned from his injury? It hasn’t been pretty.

Rudy was just as inconsistent as Frank was, he was just lucky enough to have the schedule he did at the start of the year, and Frank was the one who got the bad time of the year. Perhaps if Rudy had actually went over basic defensive rotation with the team, a lot of these 115 point plus games wouldn’t be happening.

People can point fingers all the want. Im not a big Rudy or Frank fan. They have both made lots of mistakes in my opinion. But playing the blame game isn’t going to work against Frank, cause you never know if the larkers were going to make the playoffs with Rudy either no matter how much he ran off the bench, or no matter how many three’s he let Atkins, Cook, and Jones shoot.

And hearing Chucky Atkins complain about anything makes me laugh. He has hurt the Lakers more times this year than the coaching staff combined. When every single team we play, there PG’s tear us up. I love Boykin’s and all, but come on your almost a foot taller than him chucky you loser, put your stupid hands in the air and contest his shots!

Come on, Shaun Livingston has finally started playing for the clippers. Guy is a total rookie, and he plays much better basketball than Atkins who has been around long enough to learn defense. Not to mention chucky complaining that he wasn’t getting the ball enough… Durning devener he took what 4 straight shot attempts in the fourth and MISSED ALL OF THEM.

The problem is the lakers had a coach that didn’t teach defense, and another coach who is ramming a whole new offense down there throats in the middle of the season.

That aside the lakers have a lot of sub-average talent on there team, and way to many middle guys and no coherent center or point guard. We got Chris “I need to foul at least twice every two minutes of game time” Mihm. Chucky “If I don’t get my 20 three’s, Kobe is a ball hog, and I cant guard anyone to save my life or the team” Atkins, Butler who is more on and off than a traffic signal, Odom who doesn’t like the position the Lakers are trying to make him play, Grant who’s knee’s are older than the Lincoln monument ….. and lets not for get Vlade, the only center in the NBA who comes to practice in a wheel chair… And our bag of Chips who finally played a game since the season started, Brian ‘Im really a SG trapped in a PF’s body” Cook. And Tierrer “Check out this bad *** spin move, before I throw it out of bounds” Brown.

I mean come on, what would anyone expect? These guys for the most part are barely average players. Though good coaching by both coaches could have improved us a little, don’t fool yourselves.. Most of these players need to get traded, waived, knee-capped, etc.
 

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Rudy ran an offense thats was best for this teams personnel . It still wasn't a good offense but it fit the personality of this team. It wasn't a good offense for Kobe. But it enabled through spacing to get everyone else better shots. Even if it caused teammates to stand around while he created those opportunities for them.

Hamblen isn't a good coach, never wanted the job and hoped someone else would hurry and take it. With that mindset players lose respect and should lose respect.

There isn't 1 factor causing the Lakers to lose games.

Saying its the defense and players physcially being unable to play quality defense isn't the only problem. Thats too basic and a cop out.

The triangle is part of the problem. As Kobe has said there are too many guys who don't understand it and because of that take quick shots with bad spacing which enables teams to run out in transtion.

Its part of the problem and it leads to real frustration.

Why is it wrong for Lakers fans to criticize both coaches. Because fans do it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Why don't fans have a right to critique the coaching staffs.

Both were making mistakes in strategy. Are Lakers fans wrong for that.

Rudy is a better coach than Hamblen is, thats well established by most people that know the game. Hamblen has been tuned out and players are looking for the season to end.

Lakers fans just have to accept the fact that when we traded Shaq for one good player, one role player and a guy with shot knee's, this was likely to happen with injuries to anyone we consider a key piece.

The injuries occured, a coaching change mid season happened and a team in stiff competiton hired a very good coach to bring them together in the Nuggets.

It all equals frustration.
 

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jazzy1 said:
Rudy ran an offense thats was best for this teams personnel . It still wasn't a good offense but it fit the personality of this team. It wasn't a good offense for Kobe. But it enabled through spacing to get everyone else better shots. Even if it caused teammates to stand around while he created those opportunities for them.

Hamblen isn't a good coach, never wanted the job and hoped someone else would hurry and take it. With that mindset players lose respect and should lose respect.

There isn't 1 factor causing the Lakers to lose games.

Saying its the defense and players physcially being unable to play quality defense isn't the only problem. Thats too basic and a cop out.

The triangle is part of the problem. As Kobe has said there are too many guys who don't understand it and because of that take quick shots with bad spacing which enables teams to run out in transtion.

Its part of the problem and it leads to real frustration.

Why is it wrong for Lakers fans to criticize both coaches. Because fans do it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Why don't fans have a right to critique the coaching staffs.

Both were making mistakes in strategy. Are Lakers fans wrong for that.

Rudy is a better coach than Hamblen is, thats well established by most people that know the game. Hamblen has been tuned out and players are looking for the season to end.

Lakers fans just have to accept the fact that when we traded Shaq for one good player, one role player and a guy with shot knee's, this was likely to happen with injuries to anyone we consider a key piece.

The injuries occured, a coaching change mid season happened and a team in stiff competiton hired a very good coach to bring them together in the Nuggets.

It all equals frustration.
i totally understand what kind of situation that frank is in but u have to realize that the lakers need to look for a coach in the offseason not just bring in any old bum to coach the team and mitch prob. thought that the best thing to do was to just have frank finish the season then they would worry about this in the offseason. ALso i dont know why the lakers would try learning the triangle offense when like 1/2 the team isnt going to be here next season..
 

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Pioneer10 said:
Hard to be 20/20 and say the Lakers would have done better under Rudy T. Especially since it was under Rudy T and not Hamblen that the Lakers started putting in the triangle because his offense wasn't getting the job done.

The Lakers overachieved like the Cavs early in the season against very soft schedules. Now just like the Cavs against better competition, the weaknesses of this club are showing. The Lakers aren't that talented and all this finger pointing really doesn't obscure that one fact
under Rudy however, it was a modified triangle offense and it was used at different times thru Rudys system...

either way u look at it the Lakers were playing much better wit Rudy...
at one point they were the 6th seed and they were improving slowly... then Kobe got hurt... then Rudy quit... and the team has been declining since... it isnt hard to see where this season fell apart...
 

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jazzy1 said:
Rudy ran an offense thats was best for this teams personnel . It still wasn't a good offense but it fit the personality of this team. It wasn't a good offense for Kobe. But it enabled through spacing to get everyone else better shots. Even if it caused teammates to stand around while he created those opportunities for them.

Hamblen isn't a good coach, never wanted the job and hoped someone else would hurry and take it. With that mindset players lose respect and should lose respect.

There isn't 1 factor causing the Lakers to lose games.

Saying its the defense and players physcially being unable to play quality defense isn't the only problem. Thats too basic and a cop out.

The triangle is part of the problem. As Kobe has said there are too many guys who don't understand it and because of that take quick shots with bad spacing which enables teams to run out in transtion.

Its part of the problem and it leads to real frustration.

Why is it wrong for Lakers fans to criticize both coaches. Because fans do it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Why don't fans have a right to critique the coaching staffs.

Both were making mistakes in strategy. Are Lakers fans wrong for that.

Rudy is a better coach than Hamblen is, thats well established by most people that know the game. Hamblen has been tuned out and players are looking for the season to end.

Lakers fans just have to accept the fact that when we traded Shaq for one good player, one role player and a guy with shot knee's, this was likely to happen with injuries to anyone we consider a key piece.

The injuries occured, a coaching change mid season happened and a team in stiff competiton hired a very good coach to bring them together in the Nuggets.

It all equals frustration.

I never said it was only one thing. But I'm from the old school... Defense wins games, not offense. When you got the Lakers giving up 115 points to Utah. 102 points seattle, 117 to denver, 102 to miami, 108 to philly the first round, 116 to the bulls, 110 to the CLIPPERS, 103 to dallas, 104 to boston... Thats this month only....

Call me crazy but I dont recall very many teams who are good enough to give up more than 100 points a game for the majority of the season and still pull it out in the end. Sure, you got the Suns who let a lot of points go.. But lets face it, the lakers dont have half the suns offensive talents... So 100 plus points isn't going to cut it.

Tonight agisnt the lakers the 76'ers forced 27 turn overs, and stole the ball from the lakers 15 times. Sounds pretty solid... The lakers managed to only 12 turn overs, and six steals.... Seems a little lopsided doesn't it? Especally considering the competition.. A team who... No one really thought should have a chance at beating the lakers this season, simply only had to run the same offense for most of the game because the Lakers defense NEVER adjusted to proper rotation and resulted in many non-contested shots.

There isn't 1 single factor. True. However, this is the biggest factor. if this team did basic defensive rotuines that most high school teams are taught in the start, they would be playing much better basketball.
 

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shobe42 said:
under Rudy however, it was a modified triangle offense and it was used at different times thru Rudys system...

either way u look at it the Lakers were playing much better wit Rudy...
at one point they were the 6th seed and they were improving slowly... then Kobe got hurt... then Rudy quit... and the team has been declining since... it isnt hard to see where this season fell apart...

Well, if you look at the teams they played and amount of home games in the first half of the season, and comepare it to the trips they have since Rudy left, its a huge difference.
 
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