Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
1- How do you rank these players, considering their position, all-time?

Bob Cousy (PG);

Hondo (SF);

Dwyane Wade (SG);

Shaq (C).

2- Who is/was better?

Hondo/Barry/Pippen/Dominique
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
What exactly puts Wade ahead of Hondo and Cousy?
Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
67,765 Posts
Are we sure Shaq should be above Hondo?
 

·
X-Mas Taker
Joined
·
8,947 Posts
Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.
different league at a different time .

one thing people overlook when comparing eras is who much more physical the league so everyone sh

but the Celtics during Cousy's time was usually the best offensive team in the league before Russell got there and they were remade into a defense 1st unit around Russell's abilities

so while personally shot inefficiently his team was still the most efficient in great part due to his playmaking abilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
1- How do you rank these players, considering their position, all-time?

Bob Cousy (PG);

Hondo (SF);

Dwyane Wade (SG);

Shaq (C).

2- Who is/was better?

Hondo/Barry/Pippen/Dominique
I'd have Shaq number 1, the other 3 really could be in any order...although, I would most likely have Wade 4.

The 2nd question, Pippen is clearly #1 , and Barry is clearly #4 ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
[uote=Firefight;11901777]I'd have Shaq number 1, the other 3 really could be in any order...although, I would most likely have Wade 4.
Wel, what i really meant was ranking the players in their respective positions. As in, Snaq O'Meal vs Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Hakeem, etc; Wade vs Jordan, Kobe, etc...
But no problem.


The 2nd question, Pippen is clearly #1 , and Barry is clearly #4 ...
Plase explain, because this is borderline blasphemy! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
he invented shit these guys take for granted
Indeed, I'm not trying to diminish his significance in the history of basketball by any means.

We need to define what exactly we're ranking these players. I was ranking them based on, if they replaced an average starter at that position today, how many more wins do I think that team would that earn compared to with the average starter?

If we're including historical significance, then Cousy would probably be at #1 .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,389 Posts
Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.

You're kidding right?

Cousy was one of the best passing pgs in history. Some of the top passers in the last 15-20 years studied Cousy and emulated many things he did.

Sure his fg% is crappy but the league as a whole shot quite a bit lower than what the NBA is like today. Sorry but saying he would be a "D-league player at best" is a completely moronic statement to make. Considering you have guys like Rondo and Rubio doing just fine in the league, Cousy would be just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
You're kidding right?

Cousy was one of the best passing pgs in history. Some of the top passers in the last 15-20 years studied Cousy and emulated many things he did.

Sure his fg% is crappy but the league as a whole shot quite a bit lower than what the NBA is like today.
That doesn't make him better lol just cause he played with worse players. His APG was pretty good, but he also played huge minutes. His FG% was low enough to where he wouldn't even make the NBA today, and it's not like he didn't shoot a lot either. Turnovers weren't even tracked so we don't know whether he even had a good assist/TO ratio.

Players are just (much) better today. Cousy was a "great" player, but if we compare against today, he was not a "good" player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,389 Posts
That doesn't make him better lol just cause he played with worse players. His APG was pretty good, but he also played huge minutes. His FG% was low enough to where he wouldn't even make the NBA today, and it's not like he didn't shoot a lot either. Turnovers weren't even tracked so we don't know whether he even had a good assist/TO ratio.

Players are just (much) better today. Cousy was a "great" player, but if we compare against today, he was not a "good" player.
I will ignore your distinction of him not being a "good" player and simply refer again to your claim that he would be a "d-league player at best" in todays NBA.

10.1ppg 8.1apg 3.4rpg 37% from the field. That's one of the young PGs in the NBA that is currently negotiating an extension with his team and was widely regarded as one of the best passers in the NBA.

It was a different game back then and different technology. So if you are comparing players relative to their era then Cousy easily ranks up there. If you are literally taking a guy that played in the 50s/60s and moving him into todays NBA then no Cousy wouldn't hold up. But if your question is the latter then this thread is a waste of time. 99% of players back then wouldn't hold up in todays NBA. Training, fitness, technology, information, everything is far superior to that era and because of that players are far more advanced physically.

Considering eras, Cousy was the better player compared to Wade. Easily. And when you factor in his longevity, control of the game, and success it's not close.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Considering eras, Cousy was the better player compared to Wade. Easily. And when you factor in his longevity, control of the game, and success it's not close.
Well that's the issue, I wasn't considering eras :p

Considering eras, Cousy is one of the greatest players ever.

It was a different game back then and different technology. So if you are comparing players relative to their era then Cousy easily ranks up there. If you are literally taking a guy that played in the 50s/60s and moving him into todays NBA then no Cousy wouldn't hold up. But if your question is the latter then this thread is a waste of time. 99% of players back then wouldn't hold up in todays NBA. Training, fitness, technology, information, everything is far superior to that era and because of that players are far more advanced physically.
Yeah, that's my whole point haha, so we are in agreement.

If we don't compare objectively it becomes practically a popularity contest.


Yeah, I'll admit my "D-league player at best" was an exaggeration, I'll rescind that comment

I also think you're massively underrating Wade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,389 Posts
Well that's the issue, I wasn't considering eras :p

Considering eras, Cousy is one of the greatest players ever.



Yeah, that's my whole point haha, so we are in agreement.

If we don't compare objectively it becomes practically a popularity contest.


Yeah, I'll admit my "D-league player at best" was an exaggeration, I'll rescind that comment

I also think you're massively underrating Wade.
You can't compare objectively, that's my point. The eras are far too different, and modern sports medicine and science has progressed so far that it makes it impossible.There are very very few transcendent athletes(across all sports) that can stand up to the test of time.

It doesn't make any sense to compare players that played 60 years apart without taking into account the eras they played in.

I'm not underrating Wade at all. He's a very good player that had 5-6 good years(most of which came on crappy teams) and now he's on the all-injury team.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
You can't compare objectively, that's my point. The eras are far too different, and modern sports medicine and science has progressed so far that it makes it impossible.There are very very few transcendent athletes(across all sports) that can stand up to the test of time.

It doesn't make any sense to compare players that played 60 years apart without taking into account the eras they played in.
Yes perhaps you're right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,500 Posts
does Cousy have to wear chucks or can he get his own shoe line? is he allowed to palm and hesitate/carry the way players are today? does he also get the extra step and a half players today are allowed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
does Cousy have to wear chucks or can he get his own shoe line? is he allowed to palm and hesitate/carry the way players are today? does he also get the extra step and a half players today are allowed?
Indeed, very good points. I hope my posts didn't come across as an attempt to diminish how great of a player Cousy really was.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top