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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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The dual-PG usage has been very good.

I mean, even though we are hard on him and we don't really notice, Crawford is slowly becoming a star. He's the true first option on offense, and though his shooting % isn't fantastic, it was mostly because of that funk over about four or so games (although lately he's not shooting so well again).

If you take out merely five games in December when he couldn't shoot at all and when he was literally the ONLY offensive option for the Bulls on the court (and this also soon after he made the shift to SG and also right when Skiles gave him a green light to shoot to his heart's content), his % is more like 42% and from the arc he's more like 36%, averaging about 17.4 a game.

It's kind of cool when I'm looking down the list of assist leaders in the NBA and I see Kirk Hinrich at 16th, with 5.7, and Jamal Crawford at 17th, with 5.6. By definition, there are quite a few teams out there that don't have a player in the top 20 in assists.

Crawford is also 14th in the NBA in steals per game, with 1.64. His steal numbers have increased steadily over the last four seasons.

Hinrich is already averaging more than a steal a game.

Hinrich + Crawford as compared to other backcourts with players who log similar minutes:

Hiney and JC- 27.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 11.3 apg, 5.2 TO, 2.8 spg, combined 33% from the arc.

T-Park + Manu Nobly- 27.7 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 10.3 apg, 4.0 TO, 2.7 spg, combined 33% from the arc.

The Bibster + D. Christie- 26.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.55 TO, 2.7 spg, combined 39% from the arc (man, the Kings have hot rangy shooters... Peja is averaging 42.5% from the arc but on 223 attempts!).

J-Kidd + Taste the Rainbow Kittles- 30.1 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 12.3 apg, 4.0 TO, 3.79 spg, combined 35.3% from the arc.

Our guys match up pretty well. Turnovers are a concern, but our guys are young and do a lot of handling the ball in Skiles' system. I think the big discrepancies are in the frontcourt, when you compare us to the league.

Isn't it ironic that the Bulls, infamous for constantly drafting big man after big man against all logic, are weakest in that very area? Of course, when Chandler gets back, the frontcourt will be shored up.

Conclusion: when Chandler gets back and brings his top game, this team will be competitive once again with the entire league.

But as for Hinrich and Crawford, I think I can give them a lot more grace now that I look at the great job they've been doing.
 

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Amen Showtyme.........


When these guys get some consistency from the big men, they are going to be that much better.

What kills me is that all to often we put Hinrich and Crawford into 5 second situations (5 decs on the shot clock and nowhere to go). Sometime they pull rabbits out of their hats, some nights they don't.

I really like the Crawford and Hinrich back court and would be happy to have it for the next 12 years.

What I am very unhappy about is the SF position. every night we are basically playing 4 on 5 basketball. It is horribull. Dupree and Robinson have been a decent combo and if they can continue to give what they have recently we may get to being atleast average there.

Then come the black hole so fblack holes.....we have nothing down low. Curry is pathetic and makes Blount and Davis appear good. JYD is an energy guy with a shot as ugly as his grill. Chandler is unknown cause you never know when he gets hurt again.

Bottom line, if you took Hinrich and Crawford off this team, there wouldn't be a need to dress for games. the team would score in the 50's and Skiles and Paxson would hang in effigy from the MJ statue out front.

When we start to put 5 real NBA players on the court together for extended minutes, then it will be judgement time.
 

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I agree I like the the backcourt as well because we can start the offense from anywhere they are both young and neither has a problem feeding the bigs ,the problem is we dont have one credible scoring threat on the post this season weve gone from a top 10 team in points in the paint to a bottom 5 team.

I say give them this summer of working out together with skiles and establishing some chemistry and Crawford and Hinrich can be a great duo for years to come .
 

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its working better then most guys would say. But Jwill/JC seemed to work better last year. I think the best play the Bulls run is when Hinrich comes off the baseline curl screen and hit the cutter for a dunk. Thats with Crawford outfront at the point. I actually think JC should be the setup man more and Kirk the shooter. I really like this kids off the ball game. I am convinced the lineup can work, but I think our GM wants a pure 2 to go with his "stockton-like" PG :rolleyes:
 

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The only thing working about the JC-Hinrich backcourt is Hinrich.

JC is not effective, period. He may throw up some stats every now and then, but he's certainly not giving this team what it needs.

Hey maybe you like the looks of 17 ppg and 1.64 spg, but anyone who watches knows that any player in the league can get 17 ppg on that many shots and what does 1.64 spg mean when he's still the worst defender on the team?

I'm sorry, but until Jamal learns how to play beyond what shows up in the boxscore, until he learns how to defend and take the ball strong to the hole, I will remain a critic. For now, Jamal is nothing more than a poor man's Larry Hughes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Larry Hughes is a worse passer and worse defender. It is the passing game that keeps Jamal better than Hughes... Crawford still regularly puts up 5-8 assists even after being permanently shifted to the off-guard spot.

He puts up so many shots because he has to. Maybe not AS many as he has been, but he does need to shoot a lot. And it is effective when it goes in; he just needs to do it better.

Crawford is not the worst defender on the team; you can't get 1.6 steals a game and be the worst defender on the team. He sees passing lanes, and gets into them with his length. He stays close to his man and has shown that he CAN play defense.

I'm not saying he's a superstar, or even a star yet, but he's slowly becoming something like one.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
The only thing working about the JC-Hinrich backcourt is Hinrich.

JC is not effective, period. He may throw up some stats every now and then, but he's certainly not giving this team what it needs.

Hey maybe you like the looks of 17 ppg and 1.64 spg, but anyone who watches knows that any player in the league can get 17 ppg on that many shots and what does 1.64 spg mean when he's still the worst defender on the team?

I'm sorry, but until Jamal learns how to play beyond what shows up in the boxscore, until he learns how to defend and take the ball strong to the hole, I will remain a critic. For now, Jamal is nothing more than a poor man's Larry Hughes.
Righttttttttttttt because Hinrich is having the perfect season and has played flawless ball the entire season .

Anyone who watches knows Jamal has to take so many shots out of neccesity due to our not existent post game .If Curry was dominating would Jamal have to take so many shots ?If Chandler was healthy ?He has some defiencies in his game but is improving as hes only been playing sg 6 weeks .

I think both Hinrich and Crawford are giving this team every thing they can right now without a low post game .
 

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Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
The only thing working about the JC-Hinrich backcourt is Hinrich.

JC is not effective, period. He may throw up some stats every now and then, but he's certainly not giving this team what it needs.
Not consistently, anyway.
 

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TRUTHHURTS and Showtyme, I don't see why you need to make excuses for Jamal. He's just not getting the job done, anyone can see that. Why enable him? You should hold him to higher standards.

For the record, Larry Hughes is a much better defender than Jamal, and if you think the steal numbers are enough to slide Jamal ahead of him, you better check Hughes' steal stats. It's one of the reasons I compared Jamal to him. Looks ok on paper, just not in the game.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
TRUTHHURTS and Showtyme, I don't see why you need to make excuses for Jamal. He's just not getting the job done, anyone can see that. Why enable him? You should hold him to higher standards.

For the record, Larry Hughes is a much better defender than Jamal, and if you think the steal numbers are enough to slide Jamal ahead of him, you better check Hughes' steal stats. It's one of the reasons I compared Jamal to him. Looks ok on paper, just not in the game.
Who is making excuses ?What pg you know can learn to play sg in 6 weeks and be the #1 option as well ?Hes young and no where near his prime its not an excuse just the truth. Hes a inconsistent player not a bad player just inconsistent.

As for the Hughes comparisons Crawford averages 5+ assists per game nuff said and still maintains this averages even after sliding to sg .Give him time to learn what his weaknesses are and work on them with help from the coaching staff.
 

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the defense people harp on Jamal about is not defense on his man. I need to clerkfy this. He does get steals. Some of it comes from his man, some of it comes from the passing lanes. The defense that Pax and Skiles are worried about is HELP defense. During some of the post game shows, Defalco and Van Lier both talk to fans like us on the radio who say the kid plays defense. Every time a caller calls and says that both of them go off. Help defense. He won't play it.

Let me say Van Lier likes Crawford. He is not ready to give up on the kid. But he is critical of some parts of his game as I am.

I like Crawford! But I will be critical when it is needed.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
Larry Hughes is a worse passer and worse defender. It is the passing game that keeps Jamal better than Hughes... Crawford still regularly puts up 5-8 assists even after being permanently shifted to the off-guard spot.
Right now Jamal Crawford is not better than Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes is a much and I mean much better man defender than Crawford is now and his help D is that much better and Larry Hughes isnt even an elite defender. Also I watch Chicago games as much as I can but I still see Crawford get 10-15 mins a game at the point. Am I correct? So is Jamal's upside greater than Larry's. Possibly. Right now he is not the better player
 

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good post, showtyme
btw, taking a look at the leading scorers, you'll notice jamal isn't the only one with a poor shooting %
 

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Great insight by my man truebluefan. The problem is not just JC's defensive on his man, that for the most part is ok, it is his weak side or off ball D. When JC's man does not have the ball he just stands there. And i am not just dishing him this is a total team problem. The stat to check here is the opposing teams 3 pt % which is very high. Our guys constantly lose track of their men and the drive and kickout for the open J is an ongoing problem with our team. The worse person in this regard is Robinson. I mean he must have some chronic CNS illnes because when he is away from the ball he turns to stone.

david
 

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Nice post Showtyme.

Until the guards start shooting above 41%, one person shouldn't take the blame.

Except maybe Eddy;)
 

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I agree Showtyme, good post! Any post that mentions JC will bring out his detractors but I'm just not paying any attention to them anymore :D
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
I agree Showtyme, good post! Any post that mentions JC will bring out his detractors but I'm just not paying any attention to them anymore :D
Sorry to try and capture your attention, but I've got a couple problems with Showtyme's post.

1st: Jamal does not look like a #1 option on offense to me. He looks like the 3rd or 4th option who's overmatched in the #1 option role. In his 4th year in the league, it's not realistic to expect he becomes a lot more than this.

2nd: I see a pretty selective look at the numbers when I see Jamal and Larry compared. I fully agree that Jamal's got better passing skills, but I'd rate Hughes as a somewhat better scorer. He gets to the line quire a bit more than Jamal and he's developed a 3 point shot that is falling at a higher rate than Jamal's. He's a very good rebounding for a guard, pulling down 5 a game in the same minutes as Jamal's 2.3 a game. Their steals totals are about the same, but my impression from watching both is that Larry is a tangibly better man defender, although he too tends to fade on D.

Really, when you look at it, Larry and Jamal are very comparable. They're both guys at about the same points in their careers, although I agree that Jamal still has a bit of upside left. But when you look at the numbers, and when you look at the defensive performances, really the only thing I see falling in Jamal's favor are his assist numbers and passing abilities. Literally everything else is even or falls in Larry's favor.

3rd: This isn't meant to "detract" from what Jamal's doing, just be realistic about it. He's not succeeding in the role of #1 option on offense, and Showtyme's post made it seem he is. Well, no, he's not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Indeed, he isn't succeeding as a #1 option on offense. But I think he's taking the burden of the #2 and #3 options too. It's like they are asking him to be AI for a while, especially in those games when Curry was totally out.

He gets some help every game, from Gill or Hinrich (I agree, I always thought Hinrich should be an off-the-ball scorer). But it's still unfairly put squarely on Crawford's shoulders. I don't think any other player on the roster has that green light that Skiles gave JC, and I think they know it.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
Indeed, he isn't succeeding as a #1 option on offense. But I think he's taking the burden of the #2 and #3 options too. It's like they are asking him to be AI for a while, especially in those games when Curry was totally out.

He gets some help every game, from Gill or Hinrich (I agree, I always thought Hinrich should be an off-the-ball scorer). But it's still unfairly put squarely on Crawford's shoulders. I don't think any other player on the roster has that green light that Skiles gave JC, and I think they know it.
I do agree with this... he isn't just asked to be #1, he's asked to be #1 and #2, and sometimes #3 (although Kirk is more and more consistent). That's why I want a guy to add a couple guys like Barry and Hedo... by being somewhat capable perimeter scoring options, they can take pressure off Crawford and Curry (and by hitting outside shots creating space), and make our existing guys more efficient.
 

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So Mike you then adding Hedo to what we have now fixes things?
You think this team wins ball games?

Hinrich,(Crawford)
Crawford,Gill
Turkoglu,Pippen
Chandler,JYD
Curry,Davis
 
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