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Discussion Starter #21
You can see Derrick Rose playing in basketball games, at least until this year, makes a dramatic difference.

Adding Gasol helped a lot last year. And Rose was decent. And Butler taking a big step up.

Nice to see the team starting to turn it around. If they keep shooting 55% and a perfect 20-20 from the line they will be moving out of the cellar quickly.
 

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The roster was the mixed bag.

Have not heard much from Nate Robinson and DJ Augistin anymore.

DJ has fallen off a cliff. Nate tore his ACL, though, so I'm not sure that's terribly relevant.

Thibs had a very nice record at getting scoring production out of midget point guards.
 

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The Bulls offensive efficiency under Thibs was as follows:

Last year: 10th
13-14: 28th
12-13: 23rd
11-12: 5th (and #2 in defense - you forget how amazing the D-Rose MVP year was.)
10-12: 12th

A pretty mixed bag, altogether. You can see Derrick Rose playing in basketball games, at least until this year, makes a dramatic difference.
Oh right, easy to forget the lockout year...due to not only the lockout, but Rose's ACL injury as well. But you are right, that 11-12 team was the best Thibs team.
 

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Saw somebody post this over at RealGM:

Before Xmas: 27th Off Rtg, 4th Def Rtg

After Xmas: 4th Off Rtg, 16th Def Rtg

K4E is correct the D hasn't been as good since the offensive surge recently. Quality of opponent has been high so that could have something to do with it. But more likely, I think the team is just trying hard to fix the offense and perhaps overcompensating. The good news is the offense has been elite ever since the loss to the Nets, and the D hasn't completely fallen off, just not playing as elite as they were.

If they keep this chemistry going, I think they are 1 solid trade (big man for versatile G/F) from being a legit challenger to Cleveland in the playoffs; assuming health and all that. It's been quite a turnaround. Though I still think they need to go find someone in a trade, and to go "all in" it can't be Pau Gasol who gets traded. TBH, I'm having a hard time figuring out who exactly we can/should target in a trade.
 

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Saw somebody post this over at RealGM:

Before Xmas: 27th Off Rtg, 4th Def Rtg

After Xmas: 4th Off Rtg, 16th Def Rtg

K4E is correct the D hasn't been as good since the offensive surge recently. Quality of opponent has been high so that could have something to do with it. But more likely, I think the team is just trying hard to fix the offense and perhaps overcompensating. The good news is the offense has been elite ever since the loss to the Nets, and the D hasn't completely fallen off, just not playing as elite as they were.

If they keep this chemistry going, I think they are 1 solid trade (big man for versatile G/F) from being a legit challenger to Cleveland in the playoffs; assuming health and all that. It's been quite a turnaround. Though I still think they need to go find someone in a trade, and to go "all in" it can't be Pau Gasol who gets traded. TBH, I'm having a hard time figuring out who exactly we can/should target in a trade.

I also think the slip in D is the roster shakeup/injury situation. Noah on the bench, Niko starting at the 3, and Rose out for a few games (which, while he's not been playing elite defense by any means, still means more Brooks on the court).
 

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Adding Gasol helped a lot last year. And Rose was decent. And Butler taking a big step up.

Nice to see the team starting to turn it around. If they keep shooting 55% and a perfect 20-20 from the line they will be moving out of the cellar quickly.

BTW, the passive aggressiveness of the last sentence here is kind of amazing.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Bulls are in free fall.

Offense is the 5th worst in the NBA. "Championship roster" under Hoiball.

Thibs is gone and Jen Swanson is still around. Tons of injuries.

Bulls have a negative point differential now. Awful.

Pace is up! Hoiball!

Paxson still collecting paychecks.
 

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http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Bulls are in free fall.

Offense is the 5th worst in the NBA. "Championship roster" under Hoiball.

Thibs is gone and Jen Swanson is still around. Tons of injuries.

Bulls have a negative point differential now. Awful.

Pace is up! Hoiball!

Paxson still collecting paychecks.

You contradict yourself in your own post. Mocking a team for allegedly being a championship roster when half the rotation is not even playing right now. Of course this is America where we must attribute blame to everything, so tell me who is to blame for Mirotic having his appendix removed, or Butler for landing awkward on his knee. Why don't I start blaming Thibodeau for Dunleavy's back problems since it is obviously somebody's fault.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
yodurk said:
You contradict yourself in your own post. Mocking a team for allegedly being a championship roster when half the rotation is not even playing right now.

The old coach managed to win regular season games while dealing with injuries.

Now its, waaahhhhh, injuries, its too hard to win.

'Next man up, we have enough' has turned into 'wahhh injuries' and 'this is a bad roster.'



Of course this is America where we must attribute blame to everything, so tell me who is to blame for Mirotic having his appendix removed, or Butler for landing awkward on his knee. Why don't I start blaming Thibodeau for Dunleavy's back problems since it is obviously somebody's fault.
If a player gets hurt its the head coach's fault for playing them too many minutes. At least that was the story last season.

There is no narrative being spoon fed to the beat writers this season so you don't really see blame stories from them.

There are always excuses for mr. "no excuses."

12 seasons
0 championships
0 finals appearances
1 eastern conference finals appearance.

current state of franchise: complete freaking mess.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
The Bulls have been towards the bottom of the league in off eff all season. This isn't just a current problem. Hoiball.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Now, as a whole, the Bulls have a negative point differential on the year while flirting right around +1 or less for most of the season.

Last season under Thibs this team was +3.2.

Taj Gibson is starting to call out the team. For him, its frustrating to see the Thibs winning ways slowly slipping away while the usual Paxson malaise sets in again.

Sad to see. Rough season. What a mess.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
On the bright side, when I created this thread, the Bulls were the 2nd worst offense in the NBA.

Now they are the 5th worst offense in the NBA.

Trending up!
 

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Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

The purpose is not to improve or help, is overachievement, deepen into playoffs or won too many games. GM does not allow coach to overachieve.

Nuggets fired coach of the year George Karl

Rockets fired Kevin McHale.
 

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Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

Simple minds, simple thinking. (these media heads that is)

Hoiberg hasn't helped much, but I really don't think he's actively hurt them either.

For the 248th time, there are several other problems that need to be addressed. That's on Gar Forman.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

Simple minds, simple thinking. (these media heads that is)

Hoiberg hasn't helped much, but I really don't think he's actively hurt them either.
Its also often not very complex.

Hoiberg certainly isn't helping. Early on, he's a replacement level coach, at best.

The coaching change has not helped the Bulls in any way, shape or form.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Things are just worse under Hoiball

From a team perspective, the team has a negative differential between OFF EFF and DEF EFF. Right now its at -1.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Last year with basically the same roster under Thibs, the team was a +3.2.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/year/2015


Even more troubling is to see how much poorer some players are playing under Hoiball this season than under Thibs last season.


Most troubling


Derrick Rose
PER Last Year: 15.9
PER This Year: 12.4

Former MVP went from being a decent NBA player last season to a bad one this year.

Nikola Mirotic
PER Last Year: 17.9
PER This Year: 14.5

Promising rookie last season with a close to 18 PER. This year he's below average. What a dropoff.


Taj Gibson
PER Last Year: 16.1
PER This Year: 14.6

The always solid Taj under Thibs has been a below average NBA player under Hoiball.

Tony Snell
PER Last Year: 10.2
PER This Year: 6.8

This promising D and 3 guy has turned into a really bad NBA player under Hoiberg. Another younger asset moving in the wrong direction.


Aaron Brooks
PER Last Year: 14.4
PER This Year: 12.2

Our instant offense guy is now a bad NBA player under Hoiball. No DJ / Nate signing this year. No Thibs.

A bit worse

Joakim Noah
PER Last Year: 15.3
PER This Year: 14.2

Worse under Hoiberg. Also hurt under Hoiberg.




About the same

Jimmy Butler
PER Last Year: 21.3
PER This Year: 21.9

Playing great and an all-star level talent. Still leading the league in MPG though under Hoiberg / Swanson / GarPax and now he has hurt his knee.

Pau Gasol
PER Last Year: 22.7
PER This Year: 22.3

Not a stout defender by any stretch, but still delivering the goods at an all-star level at an advanced age.


E'Twaun Moore
PER Last Year: 10.3
PER This Year: 10.9

Decent bench guard. Doing about the same.


Big Winner

Doug McDermott

PER Last Year: 6.1
PER This Year: 9.0

Big uptick in production for Dougie. He's been freed from the shackles of Thibs. Problem is that 9.0 is absolutely awful, especially for a guy that is supposed to be an offense first guy. Flawed judgement by many.


Better, but who cares

Kirk Hinrich

PER Last Year: 6.8
PER This Year: 7.5

Hoiball agrees with him. Ha. He's going to turn into dust, wraps, gear and glasses at some point in a game this season.


Cameron Baristow

PER Last Year: 2.1
PER This Year: 3.5

Freed from Thibs.



Oy vey, what a mess.

So many key players doing worse under Hoiberg. Noone meaningful doing better.

And last season was supposed to be the year where Thibs "lost the team."

If last season was "lost the team" what do you call this?
 
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