[robyg1974]

The Suns, as we all know, need to get rid of Penny Hardaway in a VERY BIG WAY. If the future of the team at the SG position really is Joe Johnson and Casey Jacobsen, well, what are you going to do with Penny for the next four years? I mean, the dude is getting paid a TON for the next four years--you can't just sit the dude on the end of the bench for FOUR MORE YEARS, can you? Seriously? And don't forget that these guys actually have to be TEAMMATES--how well do you think he's going to get along with Johnson and Jacobsen? Not to mention with Frank Johnson, his head coach? You know?

So the Suns desperately need to get rid of the guy. But how? Who wants this guy's contract? The answer: NOBODY. The key to getting rid of Penny's contract is simple: FIND SOMEBODY WITH AN EVEN WORSE CONTRACT. Who has the worst contract in the NBA? Okay, this is an easy one; all together now--

SHAWN KEMP!

That's right, Shawn Kemp. The Suns need to trade Penny Hardaway for Shawn Kemp. First of all, the exact trade is this:

Shawn Kemp to the Suns; Penny Hardaway, Bo Outlaw, and Randy Brown to the Blazers

Second of all, the contracts of the four guys involved:

Penny--$12.4 mil next year, then $13.5 mil, then $14.6 mil, then $15.8 mil

Bo Outlaw--$6.5 mil next year, then $7.0 mil, then $7.5 mil

Randy Brown--$2.7 mil next year, and that's all she wrote

Shawn Kemp--$21.5 mil next year, then $25.0 mil

NOW! Why would the Suns do this? SIMPLE--Kemp's contract is up after two years, while Penny's contract goes on for another four years while Outlaw's contract goes on for another three years. NOT TO MENTION how much money the team actually SAVES by TRADING FOR SHAWN KEMP (god, who ever thought such a thing was possible?). Kemp is owed a total of $46.5 mil, which is obviously a TON of money. But that's nothing compared to how much Penny, Outlaw, and Brown are owed combined: $80 MILLION. So NOT ONLY are you getting rid of Penny for the sake of Johnson's and Jacobsen's sanity and development, not only are you getting rid of Penny for the sake of team chemistry, not only are you getting rid of Penny and Outlaw so as to clear as much room off the cap as soon as possible--YOU'RE SAVING AN INCREDIBLE $33.5 MILLION! Once again, think about that for a second--by trading for SHAWN KEMP, the most overpaid player IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA, you are SAVING MONEY! AND you are making yourself A BETTER TEAM!

And, while we're at it, we may as well see what we can get for Tom Gugliotta, right? How about this:

Tom Gugliotta to the Warriors; Erick Dampier and Bobby Sura to the Suns

The Warriors desperately want to unload Dampier's contract ($6.9 mil next season, then $7.5 mil, then $8.1 mil, then $8.3 mil) on SOMEBODY, while Sura still has two years left on HIS contract ($5.5 mil next year, then $6.2 mil). Keep in mind that the Warriors not only want to save themselves some money here (they'd save themselves a grand total of $19.9 mil, a pretty significant amount of money, obviously), they ALSO want to get rid of all these veterans so as to make room for all the kiddies. I'm sure it doesn't hurt to get rid of all the bad memories of the past however many years, either.

HOWEVER, Sura would give the Suns a nice backup combo guard, and Dampier would give the team a nice backup center. Guys like Sura and Dampier are wasted on perennial losers like Golden State--but, in a winning environment, guys like these two tend to excel, because they are given specific ROLES to play. In Golden State, Dampier was expected to be a star center--which, of course, never happened, so he was seen as a major disappointment--but, in Phoenix, Dampier is only being asked to back up Tsakilidis, to play defense, to throw a big body at guys like Shaq and Duncan.

Here, take a look at the Suns after these two trades, peoples:

PG Stephon Marbury--Bobby Sura
SG Joe Johnson--Casey Jacobsen
SF Shawn Marion
PF Scott Williams--Amare Stoudemire--Shawn Kemp
C Jake Tsakilidis--Erick Dampier

The Suns' payroll next season will be pretty big, but reasonable: right around $55 million, which should just avoid getting hit with the luxury tax. The payroll the NEXT season, in 2003-04, will balloon, though, because the team will have to re-sign Shawn Marion to a big extension. The payroll in 2003-04 will probably be--get ready, brace yourselves--close to $70 million (!). But SETTLE DOWN--a year later, Shawn Kemp's $25 million (along with Bobby Sura's $6.2 mil) comes off the books, dropping the payroll down to its normal $50 million territory.

It seems pretty obvious that the team would be better off dealing with a $70 million payroll for one year than dealing with a $65 million payroll for two years, don't you think?

Anyway, let's hear some feedback, peoples! What do you think?

 

[Sunsfan]

Here's a trade that would acomplish your goal, but avoids dealing with Kemp for two years. Phoenix trades Penny and Gugliotta to Portland for Scottie Pippen and Steve Kerr. Pippen has become a 5th wheel in Portland (who just happens to be in the last year of his deal), and Kerr never really fit in. Penny gives the Blazers their sought-after big PG, and Googs becomes another body to throw at Shaq. The Blazers won't benefit from losing Pippen's and Kerr's contracts (they'll still be way over the cap), so getting something in return probably doesn't sound so bad. Phoenix gets an aging star who can contribute off the bench for a year, and a sharpshooter who adds depth to the backcourt (for a year). Then, the Suns are rid of those burdensome contracts just in time for the 2003 free agent class.

 

[robyg1974]

Suns fan, about yr trade proposal...

The Suns wouldn't be able to trade BOTH Penny and Googs for Pippen and Kerr, it wouldn't work under the cap, it wouldn't even come close, in fact.

And the Blazers actually LIKE Scottie Pippen, he's a big player for them. They're not going to just give the dude away.

Paul Allen isn't worried about money, so he's willing to take a chance on Penny. But he understands that he's pretty much the only team in the league who would be willing to take Penny off the Suns' hands, he understands (or Bob Whitsitt does, anyway) that the Blazers don't have to give up a SINGLE GUY who figures into their 2002-03 plans in order to get Penny.

If the Suns want the Blazers to take Penny off their hands, they're going to have to do it on Portland's terms. If the Blazers are going to take Penny (along with either a) Outlaw and Randy Brown or b) Gugliotta) off the Suns' hands, the Suns are going to have to pay the piper--they're going to have to take Kemp.

Keep in mind that Penny Hardaway can't hold Scottie Pippen's jock. So why would Portland trade a BETTER and CHEAPER player (Pippen) for Penny Hardaway? Answer: THEY WON'T. But would the Blazers take on an additional $33 mil in guaranteed contracts if it means that a) they get Penny Hardaway, who MIGHT just need a change of scenery, who MIGHT provide a nice change of pace from Damon Stoudamire, and b) they get Bo Outlaw, who is EXACTLY the kind of selfless veteran role player that this team needs, and c) they get rid of the HATED Shawn Kemp? YEP! I think so!

ALSO, if the Blazers WANT to trade Scottie Pippen, they CAN--they can trade him to the NETS (along with Steve Kerr) for Keith Van Horn (and filler, i.e., Jamie Feick and Brandon Armstrong)! The Nets want to dump Van Horn's contract on somebody as soon as they can, but they don't want to jeopardize their chances of making another run at the NBA Finals. This trade really works for the Nets--they get a backup PG (Pippen, who can play multiple positions), they get a guy who can come in and take the big three-pointer at the end of the game (Kerr), they get rid of Van Horn (who isn't exactly Kenyon Martin's favorite teammate), they give Richard Jefferson starter minutes. Take a look at the Nets after this deal:

PG Jason Kidd
SG Kerry Kittles
SF Richard Jefferson
PF Kenyon Martin
C Todd MacCulloch

Pippen plays plenty of minutes as the team's backup PG AND backup SF, Lucious Harris continues to back up Kittles, Aaron Williams and Jason Collins help out inside. This is Pippen's chance to go out like a champ--how hilarious will it be to see Pippen finish up his career on an NBA Finals contender while The Great Michael Jordan plays in pain for a lottery team? You don't think Pippen would LOVE THAT? And how great would that Pippen vs. Phil Jackson sideshow during the NBA Finals be? Answer: REALLY GREAT. How much better would Kenyon Martin get along with Scottie Pippen than he gets along with Keith Van Horn? Answer: A LOT BETTER. Great trade for the Nets.

And here's how the Blazers would look, after this trade AND the Penny-Outlaw-Brown for Kemp trade:

PG Damon Stoudamire--Penny Hardaway
SG Bonzi Wells--Derek Anderson
SF Keith Van Horn--Ruben Patterson--Qyntel Woods
PF Rasheed Wallace--Bo Outlaw--Zach Randolph
C Dale Davis

[NOTE: Brandon Armstrong, Erick Barkley, Randy Brown, and Jamie Feick will all be stashed on the IR or will sit at the end of the bench, obviously.]

Is this team really any better than the previous couple of versions of the Blazers? Uh, no, not really--but changes need to happen, and these ARE changes, for better or for worse!

 

[Sunsfan]

Roby, the Pippen-Kerr trade DOES work under salary cap rules, but the Kemp deal doesn't, check it out on RealGM. Secondly, this isn't just a trade I made up, it's been a rumored deal for some time now. Trader Bob has been pining for a big PG since Stoudamire, well, arrived in Portland, and holds Penny in high regard. Pippen, in the last year of his deal, still must share time with Patterson, Anderson, and Wells (unless the Blazers trade him), all of whom are considered the future in the backcourt. Swapping another swingman for a PG actually makes a lot of sense for the Blazers, making them more versatile. Googs has to be thrown into the deal just to make it work under cap rules, but he is another big body who can help fill the middle for the Blazers by committee. Besides, Portland has never shyed away from big contracts before, not to mention that Goog's deal has 3 years left on it, not exactly a choking contract. Would the Blazers rather give Kemp to the Suns? Definately. However, Phoenix isn't so desperate that they'd take on another PF who could be a cancer to a young team like the Suns. Also, don't forget that there are actually other teams who have been or are interested in acquiring Penny (Toronto, for example), so some bluffing by the Colangelos could pull the deal through. Pippen couldn't really be traded anywhere else (the Nets can't put a deal together under the rules), and would most likely walk after this season anyway, giving the Blazers nothing in return. I think that the Suns hold the cards in a deal like this, not the Blazers.

 

[TheRifleman]

robyg1974, I really agree with your initial reply, as it is smart business wise! Going for a player whom another team wants to rid themselves of them & their contract would really help the suns, as well as help the other team! Beneficial to both teams is the best kind of a business deal and Kemp for Penny would alleviate a lot of problems for both teams.

Nice post, robyg1974.

 

[robyg1974]

Sunsfan...

The thing is, RealGM doesn't work anymore, they don't update that thing anymore, it doesn' t work, it even says so on the RealGM site. So I'm not sure why you guys bother looking at that thing anymore.

The Raptors are NOT interested in Penny Hardaway--that team can't even re-sign Keon Clark because of luxury tax concerns--hell, they traded away Tracy Murray ($3.7 mil next season) for Lindsay Hunter ($3.0 mil next season) SO THEY COULD SAVE THEMSELVES $700,000! Even though the terrible Hunter has two years left, while Murray only has one!

Sorry, NOBODY wants Penny Hardaway--except maybe Portland, but ONLY for an unwanted dude like Kemp. I mean, JESUS, look at what Penny has (or HASN'T, I should say) done over the past few years--there is NO REASON to believe that he's going to suddenly turn into the old Penny Hardaway again--but the Blazers would trade Kemp for Penny (and Outlaw and Brown), no problem--Portland's not averse to taking on payroll and paying the luxury tax, but they're not going to trade for Penny just for the hell of it! And, like I said, Penny Hardaway can't hold Pippen's jock--why would the Blazers trade Pippen, who has only one year left on his deal, for Hardaway, who has four years left? Answer: THEY WOULDN'T! Period!

Also, Googs' contract is up in two years, not three. And, once again, the Suns save OVER $30 MILLION by trading Penny, Outlaw, and Brown for Kemp, so it's ridiculous to say that they wouldn't do this deal. Hell, I even think Kemp would fill a team need for the Suns--their second-best big guy right now is SCOTT WILLIAMS, their third-best big guy is AMARE STOUDEMIRE, who is A TEENAGER, who WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE FOR THIS TEAM ONE BIT NEXT SEASON (no matter how well he's doing in the summer leagues)! Meanwhile, Stephon Marbury needs to play at least 35 minutes/game, while Joe Johnson and Casey Jacobsen NEED to get ALL of the minutes at SG!

AND, I really do think that the Blazers are still trying to acquire Dikembe Mutombo--and Scottie Pippen would pretty much HAVE to be a part of this deal (I think so, anyway). You need to understand what a valuable commodity Pippen is--because of his contract. The dude is getting paid $13.2 mil next year--and then his contract is up. This makes him ridiculously valuable to teams wanting to dump payroll--a team can dump GOOD but UNWANTED (because of payroll problems) players for a contract like that--they do it because it saves them a TON of money, it frees up a TON of money, starting next summer. The 76ers want to get something for Mutombo while they still can, and they want to win NOW, not later, and they want to dump Mutombo's huge contract ($15.4 mil next year, then $17.1 mil, then a whopping $18.8 mil in the final year of the deal) ASAP, but only if they can get a couple of good players in return.

 

[Sunsfan]

Roby...

First, the RealGM trade checker does work, and it is updated. I'm not sure where you read otherwise, but I've seen it updated with my own two eyes.

Now, about the trade, don't get me wrong. I understand where you're coming from with your proposal, and it makes all the sense in the world. I just don't think that the Suns would be willing to swap one cancer for another. While Kemp's contract is up sooner than Penny's, he could become much more of a bane to the franchise. His terrible work ethic and questionable lifestyle may do more harm to the core of the team than Penny just constantly getting hurt.

To look at it from Portland's side, I don't really see the difference between the Kemp and Pippen trades. Both players are there just so they can come off the books for the Blazers, and while Pippen may be much better than Kemp right now, I'm not sure that Bob would trade Penny for either. (In fact, the only reason I threw out the Pippen trade is because it was rumored, not because I think it'll work). The Suns would, in all likelyhood, have to throw in another player to make the deal work, and that could be a trade-breaker in terms of just who Portland wants.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Penny's trade value; I think the Suns could get something for him at the trade deadline, or even this summer (Jeez, the Sonics were able to get rid of Baker, why not Penny too?) If Phoenix can play up the fact that he's healthy again (true or not), there could be some teams (N.Y., for instance) who would be willing to deal for him. We'd almost certainly have to take a bad contract on in return, but I wouldn't mind as long as his attitude was gone.

 

[robyg1974]

Suns fan...

Two things:

1) Maybe I don't understand how trades work in the NBA? My understanding is that the salaries have to pretty much match up--there is a little room for some difference (15%) but not much. So here's what each of the dudes is making next season:

Penny $12.4 mil
Outlaw $6.5 mil
Randy Brown $2.7 mil
Gugliotta $10.9 mil
Kemp $21.5 mil
Pippen $13.2 mil
Kerr $2.6 mil

So Penny + Outlaw + Brown = $21.4 mil
Pippen + Kerr = $15.8 mil
Penny + Gugliotta = $23.3 mil
Penny + Brown = $15.1 mil
Penny + Outlaw = $18.9 mil
Kemp + Kerr = $24.1 mil

Penny and Gugliotta for Kemp works, so does Penny and Gugliotta for Kemp and Kerr. And, of course, so does Penny, Outlaw, and Brown for just Kemp (my proposal). Penny for Pippen straight up works, Pippen and Kerr for Penny and Brown works, too--but, again, Penny CANNOT HOLD SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S JOCK, and Pippen has a much more reasonable contract, and the Suns are in no position to negotiate, since Portland is the only team that would be willing to take on Penny's contract, I'm really not sure how you don't understand this!

2) If Penny ISN'T healthy again, how can the Suns convince teams that he's healthy again? And, even if he's healthy, if he continues to play like he HAS been playing lately, who would want to trade for him? Besides Portland? And only for a player that Portland doesn't want or need AT ALL (Kemp)?

Take a look at Penny's recent stats, you tell me why any team (other than the three teams in this league--Portland, Dallas, and New York--who are not concerned about the luxury tax AT ALL) would want to trade for his contract ($12.4 mil next season, then $13.5 mil, then $14.6 mil, then $15.8 mil)--AND, by the way, I CANNOT BELIEVE that the Sonics were able to unload Vin Baker's godawful contract, but keep in mind that he's a big man, a post player, and teams will always be willing to take a chance on big guys, they never learn. Teams aren't willing to take that kind of a gamble on injury-prone backcourt players like Penny!

In 2001-02 Penny, actually WAS healthy, or as healthy as he's apparently ever going to get--he played in 80 games, 30.8 minutes/game! Take a look at the number of games this dude had played in previous seasons:

'00-'01: 4 games
'99-'00: 60 games
'98-'99: 50 games
'97-'98: 19 games
'96-'97: 59 games

And how did Penny do in '01-'02, his first healthy season since '95-'96 (SIX YEARS AGO!)?

30.8 minutes/game
41.8 FG% (OUCH!)
27.7 3 Pt % (OUCH!)
12.0 ppg
4.0 asts/game
2.4 TOs/game
4.3 rebs/game
1.5 steals/game
0.4 blocks/game

Not BAD, I guess, but certainly not very GOOD, either, especially when you take a look at his contract!

And let's go ahead and take a look at Pippen's 2001-02 stats, too, while we're at it:

62 games played (but STILL, he's missed WAY FEWER GAMES over the past few seasons than Penny!)
32.2 FG%
41.1 FG% (worse than Penny)
30.5 3 Pt % (not much better than Penny)
10.6 ppg (worse than Penny)
5.9 asts/game (better than Penny)
2.8 TOs/game (worse than Penny, but he handles the ball a lot more than Penny, keep that in mind)
5.1 rebs/game (better than Penny)
1.6 steals/game (slightly better than Penny)
0.6 blocks/game (better than Penny)

Actually, these two guys are remarkably similiar players, statistically speaking, so I WAS WRONG, I thought Pippen was significantly better, and he's not. However, when you factor in several things--Pippen's contract vs. Penny's contract, Pippen's championship experience and leadership skills vs. Penny's championship experience and leadership skills, and Pippen's health vs. Penny's health--Pippen wins out bigtime. And, while Penny MIGHT be an upgrade at PG over Damon Stoudamire, he's NOT an upgrade over Pippen, who, for all practical purposes, has been Portland's point guard (point forward, WHATEVER, same thing) for the past few seasons. So AGAIN, I just am not getting why the Blazers would want to make this deal (Penny for Pippen)!

 

[Sunsfan]

Roby...

1) I think I can help clear up some things about the Kemp proposal. Kemp is still a BYC, or base year compensation, player. This means that his actual salary, and the salary that counts in a trade, are different. So, despite the fact that Kemp makes 21.5 million this year, that is not the number that counts against the cap in a trade (In fact, since Kemp is a full BYC player, only 10.75 million will be allowed to come back in a trade). This makes a trade involving Penny and Kemp virtually impossible because of those numbers.

2) You did a great job researching Penny and Pippen, and I was certainly surprised to see how much Scottie has fallen off. This may contribute to why trader Bob would take a risk like this: Pippen has been underachieving, and management has grown impatient. Perhaps they feel that, instead of just losing Scottie's contract, they would try to acquire another "fallen" star who they can attempt to re-mold for a championship run. While I'm not going to pretend that I know what the Blazers are thinking or scheming, they have (reportedly) been interested in Penny for some time. So, unless they can figure out a way to pawn off Damon Stoudamire to Phoenix, or give up Rasheed Wallace (I wish), Pippen becomes their only tradable asset to deal for Penny. Of course, a three way deal is also possible, but like you said, N.Y. or Dallas would almost have to be the third team. Oh, and about the Suns convincing teams Penny is healthy, the Suns don't necessarily have to say that he's healthy, however remarks along the lines of "Penny's doing great, and can't wait to get back", or "We're very excited about Penny this year" travel through the grape vine just as easily as "Penny is healthy". Much like the Sonics used to do with Baker season after season (before they dumped him on Boston).

 

[R-Star]

Just not worth the risk

Nah Roby, its just not worth it. Im all for seeing Penny leaving and taking his injurys with him, but not at the price of brining in the most overpaid backup in the L. On top of that he would probably try to mentor Amare. Mentor him into being what you say? A cracked out has been like Kemp probably. The suns dont need that kind of influence. And on top of that, Outlaws a good role player who snags boards.

 

[robyg1974]

Suns fan...

Originally posted by Sunsfan
1) I think I can help clear up some things about the Kemp proposal. Kemp is still a BYC, or base year compensation, player. This means that his actual salary, and the salary that counts in a trade, are different. So, despite the fact that Kemp makes 21.5 million this year, that is not the number that counts against the cap in a trade (In fact, since Kemp is a full BYC player, only 10.75 million will be allowed to come back in a trade). This makes a trade involving Penny and Kemp virtually impossible because of those numbers.

Hey, thanks, I've been waiting for somebody to come along and explain this crap to me. Any way you can elaborate, though? Could you possibly explain what it means to be a "base year compensation player"? And why his $21.5 mil is not the number that counts against the cap in a trade? Only $10.75 mil? Whuh?

Maybe you could give us an example? Or at least point me in the direction of a couple of URLs that would clear this up for me?

Thanks, dude. [I refuse to use any of those retarded smiley faces, but be sure that I appreciate yr help here.]

 

[robyg1974]

R-Star...

Originally posted by R-Star
Nah Roby, its just not worth it. Im all for seeing Penny leaving and taking his injurys with him, but not at the price of brining in the most overpaid backup in the L. On top of that he would probably try to mentor Amare. Mentor him into being what you say? A cracked out has been like Kemp probably. The suns dont need that kind of influence. And on top of that, Outlaws a good role player who snags boards.

Hey, NO DOUBT, Shawn Kemp is a piece of dog $hit, you get no argument from me. But would you rather have FOUR MORE YEARS of Penny--who does NOT need to be taking minutes away from either Joe Johnson or Casey Jacobsen--or TWO MORE YEARS of Shawn Kemp?

Besides, this team could actually use Kemp, believe it or not. I remember a few games this past season when Dale Davis couldn't play, and Kemp actually posted 20-10 stats, I SWEAR TO GOD he did!

And, while I absolutely positively believe that the best indicator of future performance is past performance, sometimes a second chance really makes all the difference in the world. If Kemp came to Phoenix, no one would expect him to do anything other than sit at the end of the bench for two years. In other words, he'd be in a no-pressure situation. I think that Kemp has been kicked around so much over the past few seasons that he has actually become something of an UNDERDOG--yeah, I know, it's hard to believe that a guy making $20+ mil/year is much of an underdog, but don't you feel just a LITTLE sorry for the guy?

Besides, Amare Stoudemire is fresh out of high school, I don't care WHAT that dude is doing in the summer league, he's not ready to contribute at the NBA level yet. If he's REALLY PRECOCIOUS, he'll be able to contribute a LITTLE during his second season--but not next year. The summer leagues don't mean anything.

And who else does this team have inside right now? Scott Williams, Jake Tsakilidis, Bo Outlaw, and Tom Gugliotta? Kemp is certainly a MUCH better player than the worthless Googs is at this point, don't you think?

Of course, the bottom line is, the Suns have some bad salaries, and the sooner you can get rid of them, the better. They'd save themselves over $30 mil by trading Penny and Outlaw (and Brown) for Kemp (assuming this is possible--Suns fan says that it's not, though). This is a financial move, not a basketball move.

Get rid of Penny! Some way, somehow! PLEASE! OTHERWISE, He's going to be in Phoenix longer than George W. is going to be in Washington! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[Damian Necronamous]

THEY ALREADY HAVE AMARE STOUDEMIRE, WHY WOULD THEY NEED SHAWN KEMP?

 

[R-Star]

Its not done because of need, its done because of the cap. I still dont like it though. I think if we actualy tried it wouldnt be too hard to find Penny a new home and not screw our team over in the process

 

[Sunsfan]

Roby...

I'd like to be of more help, I really would, but fact is I'm in the dark about the whole BYC thing as well. From what I know, base year compensation is a little wrinkle that had to be thrown in after Stern and the union agreed to the new collective bargining agreement. It only affected contracts that were larger than the max that could be given to that player, so that trading them wouldn't be impossible (little did they know that the BYC would have the reverse effect). Why are some players full, and other half BYC? I really don't know. I do know that the difference between the two lies in how much salary counts in a trade. If a player is a full BYC (like Kemp), then only 50% (sometimes a little more) of that salary counts in a trade. If a player is partial BYC (like Antonie Walker), then the contract counts at 75% in a trade. This has made trades involving equal salary and talent very tough, as BYC players are usually considerably better than others with similar salaries (in a trade). That's about all I know, and I'm not sure if a lot of it is correct, but it's what I've been able to amass the past few years.

 

[sundevilPAT]

Wow! this post is really getting going. The only thing I have to say is resign Marion, have a healthy Penny, and the Suns are on the map!