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What, oh what to do with this team? We've got far too many mediocre, unneeded veterans on the squad, taking up roster spots that we will need for incoming rookies.

As I've been saying, next year should be yet another developmental year, integrating our new young players with our existing young players and that will (or should) require clearing not only spots on the team but playing time as well.

So, how does one go about this?

1) Let Donyell walk. A sign and trade is possible but that would just add to the congestion. Let Milt walk too.

That leaves us with Bosh, Bonner (resigned), Sow, 2 first rounders, Rafer, Araujo, Murray, AW, AWill, Ewill, Woods (team option), Mo Pete, and Jalen, and our first second rounder.

2) Trade two or three players for 1. Unless I'm mistaken, we've got a few players expiring after next season that won't get us significantly below the cap. We could consolidate and trade a few guys (which could include Donyell) for a big ol' contract that expires either next season or the one following. An example could be Donyell, Lammond, and Awill to Miami for Eddie Jones and a first rounder (future or could be stashed in europe).

3) Trade Ewill back to the Nets for their remaining trade exception. Yes it makes a division rival marginally better but it clears a spot, makes Ewill happy, and saves some money.

4) Utilize european leagues. Send or keep one or two of our 3 main rookies to play in europe, where they could develop ala Bonner.

5) Cut/buyout players. A-train might have a buyout clause on his player option, in which case he wouldn't even count against the cap. Don't exercise Woods's team option (pretty likely). Murray is the other main candidate to get cut.

6) 2 for 1 to move up in the draft. Some teams will be tempted by two first rounders to move out of the top 5. The only guy I'd be really tempted to do this for is Marvin Williams, if Atlanta got the first pick, I think a trade could be worked out.

Those are the main strategies to clear up the roster. I'd like to see Babcock do a little more than just letting Woods, Palacio, and Marsall go.
 

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That is a pretty good idea, but as you know, it'll be hard to get all that done.
We definately need to get rid of a few players, but simply letting them go for nothing wouldn't be ideal. I'm not talking about Donyell, but rather someone like Eric Williams. He is a solid player, and Babcock should be able to get something somewhat valuable in return for him.

I think Lamond Murray will be traded at the deadline next season, he'll have an expiring contract, and he can be a productive spark off the bench for a playoff team. I highly doubt he will be a Raptor at the end of next season.

There is a variety of alternatives that Babcock can go to, in order to cut down our roster. One thing is for certain though, he has a tough task in front of him.
 

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Turkish Delight said:
I think Lamond Murray will be traded at the deadline next season, he'll have an expiring contract, and he can be a productive spark off the bench for a playoff team. I highly doubt he will be a Raptor at the end of next season.
If Babs couldn't get anything for Donyell this year, what makes you think he would get something useful for Lamond next year?
 

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hmmmm... I think the ideal case for Toronto would be to

- let Milt walk
- draft Deron Williams with our first pick (hoping his stock doesn't go up too much)
- draft Aleksandrov with the other first pick (hoping he drops enough)
- do a sign & trade with Marshall and see if we can somehow squeeze another first round pick from someone...
- resign Bonner for a couple mill a year...

I'm not sure what we can do with Murry, E Williams, and rafer...
 

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1) Let Donyell walk. A sign and trade is possible but that would just add to the congestion. Let Milt walk too. I think a S/T is out of the question. He is an MLE level player.

That leaves us with Bosh, Bonner (resigned), Sow, 2 first rounders, Rafer, Araujo, Murray, AW, AWill, Ewill, Woods (team option), Mo Pete, and Jalen, and our first second rounder.

2) Trade two or three players for 1. Unless I'm mistaken, we've got a few players expiring after next season that won't get us significantly below the cap. We could consolidate and trade a few guys (which could include Donyell) for a big ol' contract that expires either next season or the one following. An example could be Donyell, Lammond, and Awill to Miami for Eddie Jones and a first rounder (future or could be stashed in europe). If Babcock could not get anything for 'Yell, he'll be offered less for Lamond and Alvin.

3) Trade Ewill back to the Nets for their remaining trade exception. Yes it makes a division rival marginally better but it clears a spot, makes Ewill happy, and saves some money. If I'm not mistaken there is now a year long trade embargo for EW to the Nets from the date of trade.

4) Utilize european leagues. Send or keep one or two of our 3 main rookies to play in europe, where they could develop ala Bonner. We have ours and Miami's in round 2. I think the Miami one should be one for development. We can get a player who can play now with our pick.

5) Cut/buyout players. A-train might have a buyout clause on his player option, in which case he wouldn't even count against the cap. Don't exercise Woods's team option (pretty likely). Murray is the other main candidate to get cut. I agree.

6) 2 for 1 to move up in the draft. Some teams will be tempted by two first rounders to move out of the top 5. The only guy I'd be really tempted to do this for is Marvin Williams, if Atlanta got the first pick, I think a trade could be worked out. MMMMmmaybe. I'd have to see who all had declared. Would I be happy with 2 from a deep draft instead? That said, I don't know that 8 and 15 gets it done for a #1 pick. That team, whoever it is, has to hate where they are based on what they already have.

The real question is, can you clean out Jalen and his last year AND keep this team relatively competetive next year. I love him, he's all heart but he is killing this team with his deal @ >33% of the cap in his last year.

I would send him off straight up to NYK for Penny. Swap Denver 2006 for a 18-24 pick 2005 and look for one of Rudy Fernandez or Francisco Garcia on top of those I already like. Go all young next year, and try to build some momentum for the 2006 offseason.
 

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crimsonice said:
hmmmm... I think the ideal case for Toronto would be to

- draft Aleksandrov with the other first pick (hoping he drops enough)
Uhh... everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what makes you hope for this.
 

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I'm kinda nervous having ending contracts for Rob to play around with (including next summers)

hopefully he stays focussed on rebuilding. If he does cash some in for immediate help, I hope it's with the sole purpose of keeping Bosh onboard. Not to keep Mitchell happy or to placate restless fans
 

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I agree with anson. I don't want a situation where we get a player like Chris Webber for another five years, just to improve our team next year.

I think Babcock is rebuilding, but who knows he might get a mandate from the upper brass to win things now.....
 

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JuniorNoboa said:
he might get a mandate from the upper brass to win things now.....
We already saw this with the non-Yell trade and recent marketing campaign.

Clue-in MLSE, you can sell hope, but you gotta go full-on. Don't do anything half assed. Right now they won't say they are rebuilding when they should just be blunt like PHX last year. **** this season, sorry subscribers, but we are gonna do it right. I don't think they have the onions though.
 

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ansoncarter said:
"**** this season, sorry subscribers, but we are gonna do it right"

^that should be next years marketing campaign right there
That is what I was hoping they would say this year to get the fans used to it. But Jalen and Yell are still here.

Get off the fence. It's one or the other, not both.
 

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blowuptheraptors said:
Uhh... everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what makes you hope for this.
hahaha... like I said.. it would be my ideal situation. As far as his stock goes, it's all over the place. I wouldn't be completely surprised if he drops to the lower end of the lottery. Of course that would mean that Philly would have to miss the playoffs as well.
 

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i think some fans tend to overrate lamond murray at this stage in his career. i honestly don't think he could even fetch a second round pick at the moment. he's regularly "earning" dnp-cd's for the raptors, he has been for quite some time already, and he doesn't really seem out of place in that role (imo).

we can talk about expiring deals until we're blue in the face but i think this website has a tendency to exaggerate how badly nba teams crave those contracts. over the past twelve months we probably saw countless threads and discussions pertaining to "capspace" possibilities, etc., and what happened? aside from antoine walker, those massive contracts didn't seem to go anywhere at all. i think fans talk about them for the sake of talking about them but the reality is far more complex for league GM's.

with lamond murray, you'd be talking about a much smaller deal anyway, so he would have to conceivably benefit the acquiring team on the court. i don't know if he could do that anymore. he might have a recognizable name but he is, in my world, pretty much worthless... and that's not easy for me to say. i don't think we'd get anything for him- expiring deal or not. this is lamond murray.

he's sitting at the end of the bench.

peace
 

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blowuptheraptors said:
I would send him off straight up to NYK for Penny.
just like that, huh? that's what scares the bejesus out of me at the moment- it doesn't matter to me if we make that move, i'm worried about why we make that move. who among the 2006 FA crop are you watching? on whom are we going to use that early capspace?

honestly, i saw the same ideas floating around this year (same as last) in terms of clearing space on certain payrolls around the league... and for what? michael redd? zydrunas ilgauskas? cutting salary (for one year, for two years, for 10 years) is not a move on its own (imo). i want foresight. why are you cutting it? in this case, why get rid of a man who could be one of the only things holding this operation together? to free up capspace for a relatively barren FA season? it's 06 or 07- so why does it have to be 06? why are we willing to make that sacrifice? if there's a reason, fine. if not, go back to the drawing board and work it out.

rose for penny? i don't think i could ever justify that to myself. people could be starving for a marquee free agent signing but if there's no one available- and, more importantly, if there's no one even dropping hints of interest in our direction- then the capspace is worthless. but you know this already.

i'm having a tough time watching these 3-year plans turn into 4-, 5- and 6-year plans. some fans are impatient, no question, but some others are too patient. there are other factors at play. if our future is with chris bosh, and mo pete, rafer alston and rafael araujo are part of that formula, then we can't ignore them. some may suggest that these guys are paid to play basketball, and shouldn't worry about how the team is doing off the court, and that's a valid point, but it's not realistic. losing for the next two years/three years would be a disaster (imo). we might be "developing" in the textbooks and on internet message boards, but we'd still be losing. the resultant effect of long-term failure is usually not very bright.

i don't know how many championship calibre teams/players were built that way- and intentionally. it's just a risky way to go, imo.

trading rose for garbage that comes off the cap 12 months earlier is simply short-sighted, imo. it could have its benefits, sure, but it could/would also have its drawbacks. i mean, it would depend on so many other factors that i wouldn't just make the decision over a few beers. in fact, given how important it would be to the future of the raptors, i'd pull out my hair brainstorming and structuring a specific plan (with its contingencies outlined, etc.) before i'd even put rose on the table at all.

peace
 

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1)Rose for Penny
2)Release Milt
3)Yell off the books
4)Eric Williams traded to GSW for trade exception or to a team under the cap plus a 2nd this year or next.
5)Montross comes off the books.
6)Let Woods go.
7)Bring Bonner back at the competitive rate w/o first insulting him with a low-ball offer.
8)Try and re-sign Sow at the min for another year of development, perferably in the new NBDL
9)Keep Aaron Williams for his last year assuming he uses his option, gone after next.
10)Keep Lamond around through his deal, gone after next.
11)Pick up one of Denver's 2 picks. Do they want to save caproom this summer? Their 2006 for their (or Was) 2005.

2005/06 Lineup
Who matters
Hoffa
Bosh
Mo
Alvin (if healthy)
Rafer

Raps Pick (Jack/Best PG available)
Philly Pick (Shelden/best post player available)
Denver Pick (Garcia/Fernandez)
Bonner
Raps 2nd rnder (?????)
Miami 2nd (NBDL/Europe)
Sow (NBDL please)

Who doesn't
Penny
Aaron Williams
Lamond

This roster clean-up would be really fun to watch IMO. Roughly 10 million in caproom, before any MLE, in the summer of 2006.

I'd rather be losing and young, than be losing with two-thirds veterans.
 

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I don't think it's going to be easy, but Rob really does need to thin our ranks for the future of the team. Hopefully we aren't trying to put the load on our veteran players in an attempt to make the playoffs. Next years theme should be development.
 

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1. Keep Rose around for a year and trade him once its expiring cause that raises his trade value and its not like hes completely useless to a good playoff team

2. Didnt like Hoffa and probably never will.,..but hes still quite serviceable..wish we could trade him for some future picks...but his trade value is pretty low rite now...i know this sounds crazy but i'd trade him for Snyder and Borchardt

3. Let Yell go

4. Eric Williams is not entirely bad.....package him and Murray to the Nuggets for Elson and two second rounders or a future first?

5. Let Arron Williams play and see what he can do...if he can be the type of player that Hoffa was supposed to be <defensive sorta guy that can create room for Bosh> then great...if he cant....theres always the IR and besides his contract expires next season so no sweat

6. Try to Keep Bonner around in a 2-3 yr deal...hes a pretty good role player

7. Sign Pape Sow and see if he can back up Bosh...his draft profile is not bad....physical specimen.....strong and has some moves......still needs to learn some fundamentals....if he cant then as blowuptheraptors said nbdl would be nice....http://nbadraft.net/profiles/papesow.asp

8. Trade Miami's or a second rounder for Maciej Lampe and see if he can play the sf spot and try to groom him after Rose leaves via through trade or free agency

9. Is there a buyout in Alvin William's contract? cuz he abviously is pretty injury prone and hes not a true point...but if he can play a lil sg and backup pg at the same time then he could be okay...his contracts horrible though and his trade value is really low so its goin to be hard trading him so i'd say let him stick around and prove his worth before thinking of trading him

10. Trade two second rounders for another first rounder and draft a european to stash in Europe until hes ready

10. Draft for best player availible...
 

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Nitestalker said:
1. Keep Rose around for a year and trade him once its expiring cause that raises his trade value and its not like hes completely useless to a good playoff team
So explain to me how his expiring contract raises his trade value?

A good team will need to give up $18M of salaries for him. I assume the Raps are going to want $18M off their books as well - what good team has $18M of crappier expiring contracts to give back? There is likely not much of a potential market for this type of deal.

EXPIRING CONTRACTS (ESPECIALLY LARGE ONES) ONLY HAVE VALUE TO GOOD TEAMS, TEAMS THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE A LONGER CONTRACT IN RETURN.
 

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ballocks said:
just like that, huh? that's what scares the bejesus out of me at the moment- it doesn't matter to me if we make that move, i'm worried about why we make that move. who among the 2006 FA crop are you watching? on whom are we going to use that early capspace?
peace
It's not just about the capspace. However, if you don't like the free agency crop you still leave yourself to be a huge player on the trade market because matching salaries become irrelevant. Perhaps Toronto can be on the receiving end of these "star leaving town" deals. A pick, a vet and big money off their books is the going rate. Combine this piece with hopefully a promising crop of youngsters, and you have fullfilled your capspace, wisely one hopes. Then one can resign our own players on top.

Also, as much as I love Jalen, I would prefer to add the above flexibility AND get a younger, hopefully more capable defensive player that can play big minutes.
 

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ballocks, the problem is the last three "rebuilding" years are a sunk cost. Other than drafting Bosh they've been pretty much squandered. You can't just say that three years rebuilding is enough and we should start winning now. The truth is we haven't been rebuilding for 3 years, we've been pandering to Vince for most of the last 3 years, by acquiring Rose, trading a 1st for Murray, drafting Araujo, signing Alston, etc. all in attempts to win now. The result is a team that isn't good enough to make the playoffs, but isn't bad enough to get an impact player in the draft. This is a terrible situation.

The real rebuilding timer has to start from the Vince trade. It's frustrating to face a 5-6 year stretch of losing, but we're already 3 years into it, and there's not a whole lot that can be done to turn it around quicker. I guess we can keep our finger's crossed and hope to win the lotto for Bogut or Marvin Williams, but that can't be the basis of the rebuilding plan. If Marvin doesn't come out, then I wouldn't mind blowing up the team and tanking next year for a shot at him or Oden in 2006. Play Bosh, Araujo and the two rookies we draft this year, hope for an impact player in the 06 draft, and you are looking good in 2007 or 2008 as all the young guys start to mature together.
 
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