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So we're dumping Fortson on the Lakers--but how do we get rid of Dampier and Sura?

  • Rockets trade: Dampier and Sura for Glen Rice, Jason Collier, and Terrence Morris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Suns trade: Dampier and Sura for Tom Gugliotta and Randy Brown

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Nets trade: Dampier and Sura for Keith Van Horn (but beware of Van Horn's huge contract!)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 76ers trade: Dampier, Sura, AND Foyle for Dikembe Mutombo and Mark Bryant

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • No trade, let's keep the three superstars for ourselves!

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A totally realistic way to revamp the Warriors--a MUST-READ for all serious fans!

Somebody earlier ("cmd34") posted a way for the team to get rid of Danny Fortson--trade him for Samaki Walker and Tracy Murray, both of whose contracts expire after next season. Warriors fans, I believe you're just going to have to come to grips with the fact that NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A THING FOR DANNY FORTSON! The goal at this point is not to get something for Fortson--the goal is to simply dump the dude's contract on somebody for end-of-the-bench guys whose contracts are up after next season. And it's probably going to have to be with a championship contender, a team like the Lakers, who aren't worrying about 2-3 years down the road, they're worrying about RIGHT NOW, they don't have much use for either Walker or Murray, but Fortson can give them valuable minutes. Besides, if Jamison and Murphy are yr two PFs, they need to be getting every single minute at PF, Fortson doesn't need to touch the floor.

This is a great trade idea--you just stick Murray and Samaki Walker at the end of the bench for the season and save yourself a grand total of $17.5 mil (Fortson's contract extends for three more years after next season, at $5.4 mil, $5.9 mil, and $6.4 mil). You have $11.4 mil worth of guys whose contracts expire after next season now--Chris Mills ($6 mil), Murray ($3.7 mil), and Samaki ($1.4 mil). You can let these contracts just expire--OR you can trade these contracts to a team that desperately wants to dump salary. But we'll get back to THAT later!

Now if the team can only figure out a way to get rid of Erick Dampier ($6.9 mil next year, then $7.5 mil, then $8.1 mil, then $8.3 mil) and Bobby Sura ($5.5 mil next year, then $6.2 mil)--any ideas? Here are three REJECTED trade possibilities--read through these three, THEN take a look at a FOURTH trade possibility that is MUCH BETTER:

1) Dampier and Sura to the Rockets for Glen Rice, Jason Collier, and Terrence Morris. Collier ($1.4 mil next year) and Morris ($500,000) are both free agents after next season, so there's $1.9 mil freed up. Rice has two more years left ($9.5 mil next season, then $10.4 mil).

2) Dampier and Sura to the Suns for Tom Gugliotta. Gugliotta makes slightly more than does Rice during his remaining two years ($10.9 mil next year, then $11.7 mil). The Suns are trying to make it back to the playoffs, and the team is in desperate need for a backup PG and a backup C, so this works for Phoenix. Take a look at the Suns after this trade:

PG Stephon Marbury--Bobby Sura--Randy Brown
SG Joe Johnson--Casey Jacobsen--Penny Hardaway
SF Shawn Marion--Bo Outlaw
PF Scott Williams (who they just signed)--Amare Stoudemire
C Jake Tsakilidis--Erick Dampier

[NOTE: If the Suns were smart, they'd trade Penny and Outlaw and Randy Brown for Shawn Kemp--sure, Kemp makes a ridiculous $21.5 mil next year and an even more ridiculous $25.0 mil the year after that, but that's a total of $46.5 mil, and he's off the books forever after just two years; meanwhile, Penny and Outlaw (and Brown) are still owed a combined $80 mil, and are on the books longer than is Kemp (except for Brown, who makes $2.7 next year and then he's done), Penny until 2005-06, Outlaw until 2004-05; that's right, $46.5 mil vs. $80 mil, that's a difference of $33.5 mil, peoples; PLUS, you don't want Penny bit&hing and moaning about playing behind Joe Johnson and Casey Jacobsen FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS... BUT I DIGRESS.]

3) Dampier and Sura for Keith Van Horn. Of course, you guys need to understand why the Nets would want to do this--TO GET RID OF VAN HORN'S BIG FAT LONGTERM CONTRACT. Also, the Nets need to find a backup PG (Sura would work), a nice outside shooter (Sura again), another big body to throw at Shaq (Dampier would work), and a way to get Richard Jefferson more minutes (this trade would make him the starter at SF). So yeah, this works for the Nets, but does it work for the Warriors? If Jason Richardson is getting the bulk of the minutes at SG, Mike Dunleavy the bulk of the minutes at SF, and Antawn Jamison the bulk of the minutes at PF--WELL, how exactly does Keith Van Horn figure into the Warriors' future?

So I don't really like any of those three possibilities--HERE'S the trade that I like, the fourth and final trade possibility:

4) Dampier, Foyle, and Sura for Dikembe Mutombo and Mark Bryant. I actually think this is a brilliant move for the Warriors. Why? Because none of these three guys really figure into the Warriors' "future," and they are all remnants of an era in Warriors history that we'd all like to forget (except for those of us who get a big kick out of how incredibly bad the Warriors are, like me!)--but I just don't REALLY like any of the other trade possibilities we've mentioned here so far, do you? The trade for Googs has been the best idea SO FAR, but Googs isn't exactly going to touch the floor for his two years in Golden State, you know. The last thing Warriors fans want is KEITH VAN HORN--and the contracts of Glen Rice and Tom Gugliotta only last one fewer season than does Mutombo's contract ANYWAY! And isn't Dikembe Mutombo ULTIMATELY a great influence on these young guys? What a great guy, don't you think? And it's not like the dude isn't a significant--a SIGNIFICANT--upgrade over the two-headed Dampier/Foyle monster! AND, the Sixers would probably do this deal because they need players, they need some bodies up front. AND the Sixers want to get SOMETHING for Mutombo, right? Take a look at the Sixers if this deal goes down:

PG Eric Snow--Aaron McKie
SG Allen Iverson--Bobby Sura
SF Matt Harpring--John Salmons
PF Derrick Coleman
C Adonal Foyle--Erick Dampier

Something tells me that The Great Larry Brown will get a HELL of a lot more out of the Foyle-Dampier two-headed monster than BRIAN WINTERS ever did (or ever will)! And Sura gives the team another big guard who doesn't need to take a ton of shots in order to be effective (in Sura)--the only kind of guard who can play alongside Allen Iverson. And don't forget that Iverson is going to get a HUUUUUUGE suspension from David Stern before the season starts, probably 20 games, maybe more than 20 games--so the 76ers are going to need a veteran to play a LOT of minutes while he's gone! Sura's not bad--he's lost on a loser like Golden State, but, in the right situation--on a well-coached veteran team like Philly--he'll be fine. Remember, Larry Brown likes veterans, and veterans like him.

And for those of you who don't know why the 76ers want to get rid of Mutombo: the dude makes $15.4 mil next season, $17.1 mil in 2003-04, and $18.8 mil in 2004-05. That's a grand total of $51.3 mil over the next three years--jesus that's a ton of money! But I honestly think it's worth it for a struggling Warriors franchise in need of direction, in need of a steadying veteran influence, in need of a leader. And what's the alternative? Dampier, Foyle, and Sura?

And take a look at the Warriors after this trade:

PG Gilbert Arenas--Steve Logan
SG Jason Richardson--Jiri Welsch
SF Mike Dunleavy--Chris Mills--Tracy Murray
PF Antawn Jamison--Troy Murphy
C Dikembe Mutombo--Samaki Walker

NOW! Should the team stop here? They COULD--they could let the contracts of Mills, Murray, and Samaki expire after next season and make a run at one of those really terrific free agents, RIGHT? The thing is, I don't think the Warriors could lure a guy who would really be worth their while--you people need to understand that NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO PLAY FOR GOLDEN STATE. The guys who are already on the team, they don't have a choice, they have to make the best of the situation--but free agents are FREE AGENTS, they can sign wherever they want! And, like I said, NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE WARRIORS! Remember when the Bulls had all that cap space a few years back? The best they could come up with was Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson--and they quickly regretted giving those guys ANYTHING!

The best way to utilize that $11.4 mil in one-year contracts is to trade them to a team that is interested in dumping contracts. Now there are a LOT of teams out there wanting to dump contracts, but the Warriors don't need a SG or a SF or a PF, they need another C, since Mutombo doesn't need to be playing more than about 24 minutes/game (because of his bad back), and I don't REALLY think you want to be playing Troy Murphy at C, do you?

ANYWAY, here are some REJECTED ways to turn Mills-Murray-Samaki into a little somethin'-somethin'--after I get done with the REJECTED ideas, I'll show you the ACCEPTED trade possibility! So here we go again:

1) Alan Henderson ($7.1 mil, $7.7 mil, $8.3 mil) and Nazr Mohammed ($4.8 mil, $5.0 mil, $5.3 mil, $5.5 mil). NAAAAAAH.

2) Brian Grant ($11.1 mil, $12.2 mil, $13.3 mil, $14.4 mil). Don't like the dude, totally overpaid, plus he's a PF, not a C.

3) Antonio Davis ($11.5 mil, $12.8 mil, $14.1 mil, $15.4 mil). The Raptors would do this because they are in a heap of luxury tax trouble and because they want to re-sign Keon Clark. But do the Warriors REALLY want Antonio Davis and that big fat contract? They already have Mutombo's big fat contract--so NAAAAAAH.

4) Shawn Bradley ($4.7 mil, $5.2 mil, $5.7 mil, $6.2 mil) and Tarik Abdul-Wahad ($5.6 mil, $6.2 mil, $6.8 mil, $7.3 mil). JUST JOKING! Actually, can somebody please tell me why some idiotic GM gave Abdul-Wahad that contract?

5) Lorenzen Wright ($6.1 mil, $6.6 mil, $7.2 mil, $7.7 mil) and either Jason Williams or Michael Dickerson (they both make exactly the same amount of money--$5.5 mil, $6.2 mil, $6.9 mil, $7.6 mil). Uh, why do you think Jerry West is trying to get rid of these dudes? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT VERY GOOD, that's why. So NAAAAAH.

Do you guys like any of those deals? Because I don't! The Warriors would be better off just keeping the Mills-Murray-Samaki combo for themselves, letting the contracts expire, save some money. But there IS one deal that DOES seem to make sense. A deal with the Cavs. Jim Paxson is BLOWING THAT TEAM UP, everything must go, 90 days same as cash--why else do you think he traded Wesley Person, who was second on the team in minutes played last year, for NICK ANDERSON? Person has two years left on his deal, Anderson only has one--SEE? But FIRST, let me show you what Paxson is going to get for Andre Miller. It's a trade with the Pacers that should make the Pacers into an INSTANT contender for the NBA Finals (although they obviously have no shot at beating the Western Conference representative anytime soon) and that will get Paxson the best possible return for Andre Miller, who the team doesn't want to max out (for whatever retarded reason). Here it is:

Andre Miller, Zydrunas Ilgauskus, Lamond Murray, and Bimbo Coles to the Pacers; Jonathan Bender, Ron Artest, Jamaal Tinsley, Austin Croshere, and Ron Mercer to the Cavs

For the rationale behind this trade, go take a look at my post on the Pacers board. The only thing we are concerned with here is THIS trade:

Mills-Murray-Samaki (again, $11.4 mil) for Ron Mercer ($7.4 mil, $8.0 mil) and Chris Mihm ($2.2 mil, $2.8 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

The Cavs do this deal to unload Mercer's big two-year deal and because they don't REALLY think that Mihm is their future at center. The Cavs suddenly have ZERO big fat longterm contracts, take a look:

PG Jamaal Tinsley ($800,000 next year, then $900,000, then $1.6 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

PG Bryant Stith ($2.0 mil next year, then he's a goner)

SG Dajuan Wagner (not sure what his contract will be, but he's obviously a rookie)

SG Ricky Davis (re-signed to something like this: $4.6 mil, $5.1 mil, $5.6 mil, $6.1 mil, which is TOTALLY fine)

SG Nick Anderson ($6.1 mil, then he's a goner)

SF Ron Artest ($1.9 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

SF Jonathan Bender ($3.2 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

SF Chris Mills ($6.0 mil, then he's a goner)

SF Tracy Murray ($3.7 mil, then he's a goner)

PF Jumaine Jones ($1.4 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

PF Austin Croshere (their only lousy longterm contract, but hopefully he'll find a home in Cleveland, maybe a change of scenery will do him good, or MAYBE the Cavs could package him with one of their cheap young stars in a sign-and-trade for yet ANOTHER end-of-the-bench dude whose contract is up after next year--anyway, his contract is $6.6 mil, $7.3 mil, $7.9 mil, $8.6 mil)

PF Carlos Boozer (a rookie 2nd rounder, so he's CHEAP)

PF Tyrone Hill ($6.6 mil next year, then he's a goner)

C Samaki Walker ($1.4 mil, then he's a goner)

C DaSagana Diop ($2.0 mil, $2.1 mil, $2.7 mil, then he's an unrestricted free agent)

Assuming the Cavs re-sign Artest, Bender, and Jumaine Jones next July, this is their SUPERCHEAP young team--and don't forget that they are going to SUCK next year, so they'll get one of the top 3-5 picks in the 2003 draft--and SOMEBODY'S going to win The Lebron James Sweepstakes, don't forget that--so yeah, here's their team in 2003-04:

PG Jamaal Tinsley
SG Dajuan Wagner--Ricky Davis
SF Ron Artest--Jonathan Bender
PF Jumaine Jones--Austin Croshere--Carlos Boozer
C DaSagana Diop

Total payroll: around $40 million (and that's AFTER Bender, Artest, and Jones all get re-signed!)

Total amount of money coming off the payroll (Bryant Stith, Nick Anderson, Chris Mills, Tracy Murray, Tyrone Hill, Samaki Walker): a whopping $23.8 mil! And don't forget how much money the team is ALSO saving by dumping Ilgauskus, Murray, and Bimbo Coles on the Pacers (along with Mercer on the Warriors)! This is a CHEAP YOUNG TEAM--it may suck, but it simultaneously gives Cavs fans hope AND saves the organization a ton of money. I mean, if you're going to suck, you may as well save some money, don't you think?

But ENOUGH ABOUT THE CAVS! What does this trade do for the Warriors? It gives them a nice young backup center who still has some upside (Chris Mihm) along with a guy who can provide instant offense off the bench for the next couple of years (Ron Mercer). Fellers, here are your 2002-03 Golden State Warriors!

PG Gilbert Arenas--Steve Logan
SG Jason Richardson--Ron Mercer
SF Mike Dunleavy--Jiri Welsch
PF Antawn Jamison--Troy Murphy
C Dikembe Mutombo--Chris Mihm

Total payroll: $46 million

The only Warrior who remains from just two years ago--and REMEMBER, the team wants to put the past behind it now, it needs to MOVE ON--is Antawn Jamison! That's it! And the only guy who will need to be re-signed next offseason is Gilbert Arenas (no problem), so the only thing Garry St. Jean needs to worry about is hiring a REAL NBA coach! Jeff Van Gundy! Hire Jeff Van Gundy!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So what? You think the Warriors need to just hold onto all four guys? Fortson and Dampier both have four more years left on those contracts, you know. Why WOULDN'T the Warriors want to dump all these guys and start ALL OVER? And take one more look at the team I am suggesting--a TOTALLY REALISTIC 2002-03 Warriors team:

PG Gilbert Arenas--Steve Logan
SG Jason Richardson--Ron Mercer
SF Mike Dunleavy--Jiri Welsch
PF Antawn Jamison--Troy Murphy
C Dikembe Mutombo--Chris Mihm

Now take a look at the Warriors team YOU are apparently suggesting:

PG Gilbert Arenas--Steve Logan
SG Jason Richardson--Bobby Sura
SF Mike Dunleavy--Jiri Welsch
PF Antawn Jamison--Danny Fortson--Troy Murphy
C Erick Dampier--Adonal Foyle

In other words, you want to keep the 2001-02 Warriors--the worst team in the NBA, I believe--intact? You think that last year's team is just a Mike Dunleavy away from a 30-win season? REALLY? Why do you think that? If Fortson doesn't get traded--what do you do with him? Jamison is the PF now, he's getting paid a TON of money--you pretty much HAVE to play Jamison at LEAST 32 minutes/game--so you are suggesting that Fortson and Murphy play 8 minutes/game each? WHAT? Troy Murphy was a lottery pick last summer--that dude needs to get at LEAST 16 minutes/game if he's EVER going to develop, do you honestly not know that? And do you guys not understand that the Dampier/Foyle two-headed center experiment in GS is NOT working AT ALL? And that this team just needs to dump unwanted payroll and add a strong veteran influence (like Mutombo)?

I'd REALLY like to hear why Warriors fans think that they shouldn't just dump Fortson on whoever will take him. The dude needs to go ASAP. That's not my opinion, that's a FACT!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So what do you think the Warriors could get for these dudes?

What are you proposing? Try to not be biased--look at it from the points of view of both teams.

I just don't see how the Warriors are going to do any better than Dikembe Mutombo--but maybe I'm wrong. What do you have in mind?
 

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I haven't thought of any scenarios. I'm loookin at people like Derrick Coleman or something so we can dump contracts at the end of the year, in addition to a player who may contribute to us for several years to come.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Derrick Coleman crossed my mind, as well...

... although Philly would obviously rather have Derrick Coleman than Danny Fortson. So I don't know exactly how a Derrick Coleman trade would happen here without getting a third team involved. You know?

ANYWAY, here's another possibility I thought of today:

Jud Buechler, Horace Grant, Patrick Ewing, Don Reid, and Jerryl Sasser to the Warriors; Danny Fortson and Erick Dampier to the Magic

Why? Because four of the five above dudes (with the exception of Sasser, who makes $1.0 mil next year, $1.0 mil the year after that, THEN his contract can be terminated) coming over from the Magic are free agents after next season--this is a salary dump, the Warriors are getting nothing in return.

The Magic might want to do this simply because it's pretty obvious that Tim Duncan is going to re-sign with the Spurs, and that they (i.e., the Magic) aren't going to be far enough under the cap to make a good enough offer to another top free agent (Jermaine O'Neal, for instance). In other words, maybe they should just parlay these guys into some immediate help up front, rather than gamble on coming up with somebody good in next year's free agent frenzy (there will be QUITE A FEW teams under the cap, which will drive up the prices on the top free agents). Here's what the Magic look like for next season if they make this deal with the Warriors:

PG Jacque Vaughn--Darrell Armstrong
SG Tracy McGrady
SF Grant Hill--Mike Miller--Pat Garrity
PF Danny Fortson--Andrew DeClercq--Ryan Humphrey
C Erick Dampier--Steven Hunter

[NOTE: The Mike Miller trade talk is retarded--it's ridiculous for the Magic to assume that Grant Hill will be healthy next season! If teams aren't interested in giving you something good in return for Miller, well, you should just keep him for yourself!]

The point here is that dumping these two guys--Fortson and Dampier--and getting nothing in return is BETTER than just holding onto them! Why? These dudes each have four more years left on their contracts--GOD that's a long time! The sooner you can get rid of their contracts, the better! The four main dudes that Golden State would be getting from Orlando in the trade proposal above--the ones who have only one year remaining on their contracts--will make a combined $10.5 mil next season. Add in the $6.0 mil that Chris Mills will be making next season, and that's $16.5 mil coming off the books after next season. WOW. And what have you given up? Nothing really, here's the team for 2003-04:

PG Gilbert Arenas--Steve Logan--Jerryl Sasser
SG Jason Richardson--Jiri Welsch--Bobby Sura
SF Mike Dunleavy
PF Antawn Jamison--Troy Murphy
C Adonal Foyle

Total amount of $ tied up in guaranteed contracts: only $38 mil (including the #1 pick in 2003, which will obviously be yet another high lottery pick). If you held onto Dampier and Fortson, you're looking at a payroll of $51 mil. How many more games will the above 2003-04 Warriors team win if you add Dampier and Fortson to it? Answer: ZERO. So you need to get rid of them, PERIOD.

Foyle has a completely reasonable contract (only two years and $9.4 mil total left), so he might be worth keeping. Sura has two more years left on HIS contract--if you can dump HIM, well, great, go for it!

Again, the point here is that you shouldn't be overvaluing the value of these dudes--these guys conspired to "lead" the Warriors to the very bottom of the NBA over the past couple of seasons, and they have undesirable contracts--so, really, how good can they possibly be? You know? If you can get something for them, GREAT; if not, OH WELL!
 
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