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Re: Re: in response to FJ's lecturing...

Originally posted by F.Jerzy


I think that in the interests of constructive argument , "YUCK" and a half assed Duke analogy does not really do anything for the integrity of thread .





Exactly my point which is why I made comment in the first place
Yuck was a summary, since the proposed trade IMO opinion didn't really warrant such a verbose retort. Your tirade really isn't worth any effort either. Sorry for not recognizes your innate "genius".

So, actually I'm going to sleep instead. :sleep:

Personally, developing continuity by allowing kids like Fizer and Craw to grow and develop chemistry with their teammates is more help than exchanging players like cards in a poker game.

Moreover I've no prejudice against Dukies, though I do believe many people become infatuated with players that they've seen repeatedly and that have been hyped repeatedly.

Both Dunleavy and JWill have liabilities, and neither IMO may be the best player for the Bulls.

I'll debate this some other time, but right now I'm going to sleep.

Good night.
 

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Re: Re: Re: in response to FJ's lecturing...

Originally posted by ztect


Yuck was a summary, since the proposed trade IMO opinion didn't really warrant such a verbose retort. Your tirade really isn't worth any effort either. Sorry for not recognizes your innate "genius".

So, actually I'm going to sleep instead. :sleep:

Personally, developing continuity by allowing kids like Fizer and Craw to grow and develop chemistry with their teammates is more help than exchanging players like cards in a poker game.

Moreover I've no prejudice against Dukies, though I do believe many people become infatuated with players that they've seen repeatedly and that have been hyped repeatedly.

Both Dunleavy and JWill have liabilities, and neither IMO may be the best player for the Bulls.

I'll debate this some other time, but right now I'm going to sleep.

Good night.
Sleep?

Good idea.

Might get some myself .

If I have any difficulty I will make sure to read some of your boring as bat point guard research about some Neville No Name Loser from Pig Knuckle Arkansas that has no chance of being drafted by nobody... or some other spellbinding repository of useless information you feel compelled to litter the RealGM boards with.

Be asleep in 30 seconds guaranteed .

Thanks ZTect - you are an insomniac's best friend !:sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
 

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i think chicago should trade there #2 pick (jay) and somebody else for odom it would proved lots of scoring and that what i think let me know if u think they should do some thing else

5- curry
4-fizer
3-chandler
2-odom
1-rose
 

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Since the Clippers are already offering Odom and at least the #8 pick for the first or 2nd pick in the draft, and getting a very cold reception, why would we think about the #2 and for Odom. 2 years ago I was on Sportstalk for the draft, last year RealGM, this year I'll be here. Next year, I wonder.
 

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The Clippers are already offering Odom and the #8 pick and possibly the #12 also to get the first or second pick Why should we offer the #2 pick and something else for just Odom when the Clippers are being told no for Odom and the #8 and more?
 

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Not really, we are somewhat under the cap.

Here is Odoms salary

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/la_clippers.htm

Here is the rookie wage scale

http://www.realgm.com/src_rookiescale.php

It is very close and we will be under the cap somewhat. I am not advocating the trade at all, but the Clippers have pretty much made it known that Odom and the #8 are the least they would pay for Jay Williams and if the Bulls wanted it could be done with no complications whatsoever salary cap wise as before the draft, rookie salaries don't count at all until the draft itself. The Bulls would have taken Odom #1 over Brand if they liked him and they don't. Not just the injury, but the issue of reliability which Odom fllunks. He has talent, but is not the sort of player the Bulls will bet the #2 pick on. Baron Davis, Andre Miller, maybe. Odom, never.
 

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i can understand that and all thats why i don't want him on the clippers and i would give chi whatever else they wanted if it made since like him and both draft picks or somebody else off the cli
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: in response to FJ's lecturing...

Originally posted by F.Jerzy

If I have any difficulty I will make sure to read some of your boring as bat point guard research about some Neville No Name Loser from Pig Knuckle Arkansas that has no chance of being drafted by nobody... or some other spellbinding repository of useless information you feel compelled to litter the RealGM boards with.
Nothing is really more boring than all your pontificating and sanctimonious moralizing.


though it's a good thing gm's pay attention to players from small schools like Ben Wallace, Scottie Pippen, Devan George, and don't rely just on the college game of the week for their scouting.
 

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Originally posted by NCBullsFan
A fantasy scenario would be the following.

(1) Pick JWill.
(2) Trade JWill, ERob, Fizer, and Hoiberg for B Davis, Lynch, and PJ Brown. (I'd throw in a future protected #1 if it was needed and be prepared to give the Hornets $3M as a sweetener.)
(3) Trade Crawford for Wizard's #11 pick. (I'd throw in the #44 pick if it was needed.)
(4) Pick J Jeffries, Niko, Woods, Nachbar, someone who has dropped, or maybe Stoudemire.
(5) Pick Logan or Dickau (or maybe Boozer) with #31 pick.
(6) Sign Michael Redd. (We could renounce Best and have more than the mid-level exception to offer Redd.)
(7) Sign veteran center to veteran's minimum (Garrett, Williams, etc.)

C: Curry, Williams, Bagaric
PF: Chandler, PJ Brown, #44 pick (DeAngelo Collins)??
SF: Rose, Niko, Lynch
SG: Redd, Hassell, Richardson??
PG: Davis, Logan, Guyton or veteran for the minimum??

I think the trades are credible for the Hornets (especially if they are concerned about re-signing Davis) and the Wizards (they need a point guard and MJ loves Crawford, right?).

I was thinking a little more about this proposed trade with the Hornets, and I think it really does make sense for both teams (as long as the trade with the Wizards goes down as well). Think about it from the Hornets perspective.

After a sordid history that alienated both fans and players, the Hornets are now moving to a new city. Their franchise player (Davis) who they need to re-sign has not expressed a lot of love for the franchise and has even spoken out about how great it would be to play in his hometown of LA someday. They have a budding star (Magloire) in a crowded frontcourt, so they would love to unload one of their two aging frontcourt players (Brown and Campbell), both of whom have one year and about $7M left in their contracts. Their other two frontcourt players (Traylor and possibly Nailon, a big SF) both are free agents.

They are loaded at SF with Mashburn, Lynch, Augmon, and Nailon, but are thin at SG with a converted PG (Wesley) their only SG.

So the Bulls offer to trade them Jay Williams who is a younger version of Davis and probably is better known in New Orleans than Davis is. Getting Williams buys the franchise time to repair its image to its fans and players by the time Magloire and Williams need to re-sign.

They also are asked to give up one of the favorite players of the franchise, PJ Brown, and hard-working George Lynch, but both of these players are likely to see their roles get much smaller next year if they stay with the Hornets.

From the Bulls they get a somewhat promising PF prospect (Fizer) that points to a future frontcourt of Magloire, Fizer, Nailon (maybe), Traylor (maybe) and Haston (maybe). Getting Fizer makes it easier to not re-sign Traylor or Nailon. They are another center prospect away from being set in the frontcourt. The future #1 from the Bulls, even if it is heavily protected, could solve that problem.

Robinson provides them another option at SG. He is quick enough to guard SGs, although I suspect Mashburn would play SG on offense. Also, Hoiberg gives them bench support at the SG position that they just don't have right now.

Financially, this saves the Hornets this year, since they don't have to re-sign both Nailon and Traylor, and saves them next year, since they won't have to pay Davis's big new contract (even though Brown's salary does not come off the books). And by the time JWill's contract needs renogiated, ERob's contract will about be over.

Charlotte also gets a lot younger with this deal. It would decrease the average age of the team by about one full year, while decreasing the average age of the main players by even more than that. So the Hornets decrease their salary, get younger and better in the future, and alleviate a major re-signing that could get them off on a bad foot in their new city, without sacrificing too much in the present. This sounds like a very good deal to me for the Hornets.

For the Bulls, I can't see much reason to be against this overall scenario. Chicago isn't LA, but Davis surely would see the amazing future of this team. Heck, its prospects for 2002-2003 would not be too bad.
Hey, I think this post got lost in the ensuing back-and-forth that had nothing to with this thread. (I deleted my part of it.) Even if we keep JWill, other parts of this idea are still possible.

Fizer, ERob, & Hoiberg for Lynch and PJ Brown (or Campbell)
Crawford for the Wizard's #11 pick (Jeffries, Niko, Woods, Nachbar, Stoudemire, or someone who has dropped down)
 

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It probably would have to be for Campbell, but I think they want to play Magloire heavy minutes next year (he shot 55% last year), so either Brown or Campbell is going to see a reduction in their minutes. Since they view Magloire as a center, getting rid of Campbell would make more sense for Hornets. Fizer gives them a young PF to match up with Magloire. Brown and Campbell are getting up there, so grooming a replacement makes a lot of sense.

If Mashburn is healthy, if they want to play Lynch, they have to play Mashburn at SG. Having Mashburn (or Lynch) chase around SGs all season long is not a good strategy. Having Robinson or Hoiberg to chase SGs around gives them more options at guard, so they don't have to wear out Davis, Wesley, and Mashburn.

I see JWill starting and there is a good chance Hassell or Robinson start of SG, particularly for defensive purposes. Crawford could get caught in a minutes crunch and be forced into a role of having to come off the bench and guard SGs night in and night out. I think there is a good chance that his trade value go down througout the season.
 
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