[mavsmania41]

I think he is a Scottie Pippen nobody talks about him as one but give him some time and Dirk could be our present day Larry Bird.If you look at all the 90's Bulls teams they had no center that just had greatness.Luc Lonely and Bill Wellington and CArtwright.I think Dampier is just as good as that then you look at the bulls point guards.Kerr Armstrong lets see who lese I cant remember I mean they had to great player then had some excellent role players.Can that style of basketball win again only time will tell.This is just a comparison of the mavs compared to greatness tryed not to get to offended anyone.

 

[Mavs41]

I think Howard is a Ron Artest type player. But with his head on straight, he plays tough defense. Also, can score and do whatever the team needs. A lot of people don't agree with me but he's a future all-star. He has already shown he can shut down some of the top shooter's in the league. If he works on his offensive game, watch out.

 

[CLUTCH#41]

I agree with what both of yall said and I also think he is a future All-Star.To me Josh is our second Best player.

 

[Ragsy]

I think he is a Scottie Pippen nobody talks about him as one but give him some time and Dirk could be our present day Larry Bird.If you look at all the 90's Bulls teams they had no center that just had greatness.Luc Lonely and Bill Wellington and CArtwright.I think Dampier is just as good as that then you look at the bulls point guards.Kerr Armstrong lets see who lese I cant remember I mean they had to great player then had some excellent role players.Can that style of basketball win again only time will tell.This is just a comparison of the mavs compared to greatness tryed not to get to offended anyone.

The Bulls had the greatest player of all time, a bonafide all-star in Pippen and a great defender, rebounder and general dirty work guy in Horace Grant. They then surrounded these 3 guys with roles who all knew what they had to do. Cartwright hit the 10 footer and rebounded, Paxson hit the open jumper when teams doubled Jordan. Armstrong did the same. Then later they had Kukoc who was a hell of a player in his own right and Kerr hitting open jumpers.

I have to say as well, that despite the major improvements the Mav's have made they don't defend anywhere near as well as those Bulls did. Pippen was a shut down defender, Jordan was a great defender and Horace Grant in his prime was as good a low post defender as there was back then.

I just don't see the comparison to the Mavericks right now. Also, I'm not sure that style will win again, because there just won't be anyone who is as good in all aspects of the game as Jordan was.

 

[Dre]

The Bulls had the greatest player of all time, a bonafide all-star in Pippen and a great defender, rebounder and general dirty work guy in Horace Grant. They then surrounded these 3 guys with roles who all knew what they had to do. Cartwright hit the 10 footer and rebounded, Paxson hit the open jumper when teams doubled Jordan. Armstrong did the same. Then later they had Kukoc who was a hell of a player in his own right and Kerr hitting open jumpers.

I have to say as well, that despite the major improvements the Mav's have made they don't defend anywhere near as well as those Bulls did. Pippen was a shut down defender, Jordan was a great defender and Horace Grant in his prime was as good a low post defender as there was back then.

I just don't see the comparison to the Mavericks right now. Also, I'm not sure that style will win again, because there just won't be anyone who is as good in all aspects of the game as Jordan was.

Yeah, I'm not seeing us as the Bulls, not by any means.

As for Howard, I don't know exactly how to peg him. I don't think he's as good in the post as Artest, they have different offensive games. I think people are quick to label him a poor man's Artest because they're both good on defense. I don't see the resemblance on the other side of the ball.

He's not going to be Pippen, or even a poor man's version, because Pippen was more explosive, and was a much better passer/playmaker. I don't see Josh developing the point-forward ability Scottie had.

I can see Josh developing into an Eddie Jones type player, probably with better defense. A solid 2/3, who's above average, just below all-star level on offense, who can shoot and penetrate, and a guy quick and tenacious on defense.

If he's Eddie Jones, we're very lucky. If he even stays on this level for the rest of his career, we're still lucky to snatch him at no. 29.

 

[mavsman]

Well lets take a look at the two players. Because my first reaction to the posts here that compare Howard to Pippen were "Are you crazy?". But actually after looking at thier early career it may not be so crazy.

Scottie Pippen
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
87-88 CHI 79 0 20.9 .463 .174 .576 1.50 2.30 3.80 2.1 1.15 .66 1.66 2.70 7.9
88-89 CHI 73 56 33.1 .476 .273 .668 1.90 4.20 6.10 3.5 1.90 .84 2.73 3.60 14.4


Josh Howard
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 DAL 67 29 23.7 .430 .303 .703 2.20 3.30 5.50 1.4 1.03 .81 1.00 2.50 8.6
04-05 DAL 65 65 32.8 .472 .310 .722 2.20 4.20 6.40 1.4 1.52 .68 1.65 2.70 12.6

Now of course Pippen was on a very steep curve and his numbers went up steadily so Josh has to continue to improve but the numbers are in the ball park for the first two years.

Pippen is higher in ppg in year two but Howard is higher in rpg. Pippen is slightly higher in steals and blocks but not alot higher. Shooting percentages are a wash as they are very similar. Pippen does have significant lead in Assists per game but at the same time Pippen is much more turnover prone. But Pippen does have a positive Assist to Turnover ration while Howard is slightly negative.

Overall you would have to give the edge to Pippen but the edge is very very small. If Howard continues to improve the comparison to Pippen may not be as ridiculous as I originally thought.

Also does the fact that on the Bulls it was basically Jordan and Pipppen and a bunch of role players help Pippen's numbers? While the Mavericks may not be as good a team they are certainly deeper than that Bulls team. There is almost never any plays called for Josh. Everything he gets is on his own. Pippen was given a bigger role than Howard is given. The question is does that make Pippen's numbers more or less impressive? On one hand Pippen was given more opportunities which help his numbers on the other hand he was relied on more than Howard which comes with alot of pressure. Howard plays with less pressure to put up the numbers.

 

[Dre]

Pippen does have significant lead in Assists per game but at the same time Pippen is much more turnover prone. But Pippen does have a positive Assist to Turnover ration while Howard is slightly negative.

That's the gist of my reasoning. Howard will not be even a poor man's Pippen because he won't develop the passing skills Pippen had coming into the league. That kind of thing isn't acquired. It's not even about numbers for me. Sure, he will be a solid SG on offense, and a great defender, but Pippen's ability as a passer is a major part of his game. Now if you want to acknowledge that, the fact that Howard is a Pippen without passing ability, fine. But there are a lot of more favorable comparisions that can be made.