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Haha hey guys not sure how many remember me from way back in the day but just felt the need to pop in and check in on my fellow Bulls fans!
 

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Haha hey guys not sure how many remember me from way back in the day but just felt the need to pop in and check in on my fellow Bulls fans!
You have a new name -- wasn't it basghetti80?

Did Kirk's return bring you back? :)
 

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Haha no not back because of Hinrich although I am still a big fan of his. I am glad he is back to the Bulls though where he should finish his career IMO..No I have been following Bulls all these years but just got out of the messageboard community. I truly think still that the Bulls are 1 star SG/SF away from being elite. I dont know who that player will be but within 2 years we will have him and look something like this in 2014-2015 season the year we win our 1st championship post Jordan..

Rose, Hinrich
????, (Hinrich)
Deng, Butler(big fan of his)
Gibson, Mirotic(going to be a quality 6th man)
Noah, (Gibson)

That will be our core 8...Teague, Charlotte pick will be both assets used in a trade down the road..Boozer will get amnesty in summer of 2014 when Mirotic comes over..Names that come to mind for possible 2nd star that plays SG or SF include James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Eric Gordon...
 

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Yeah, I'm getting too old for this stuff myself. I don't know how they're going to get the 2 guard they need, assuming Luol stays, or the SF they need if he doesn't. But, I think they'll be pretty good this year, and there are a few things to look forward to as well.

I am happy Kirk is back. I'm real curious to see how he'll do. Many, many doubters out there in MB land. That's ok. Hope they're wrong ;-)
 

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Basghetti! Good to see you. A welcome re-addition.

I largely share your sentiment on being 1 player away. I'm not sure we can keep a core of 8 players together, though, in the long term.
 

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Haha hey guys not sure how many remember me from way back in the day but just felt the need to pop in and check in on my fellow Bulls fans!
Welcome back, Basghetti!

Message boards can wear on you from time to time. I took an almost two year break from the site myself because life was getting in the way. Started gradually posting again a couple of years ago and am back in full swing. Helps now that my free time is (slowly) getting more back to normal.

Stick around, you might like it!
 

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Haha no not back because of Hinrich although I am still a big fan of his. I am glad he is back to the Bulls though where he should finish his career IMO..No I have been following Bulls all these years but just got out of the messageboard community. I truly think still that the Bulls are 1 star SG/SF away from being elite. I dont know who that player will be but within 2 years we will have him and look something like this in 2014-2015 season the year we win our 1st championship post Jordan..

Rose, Hinrich
????, (Hinrich)
Deng, Butler(big fan of his)
Gibson, Mirotic(going to be a quality 6th man)
Noah, (Gibson)

That will be our core 8...Teague, Charlotte pick will be both assets used in a trade down the road..Boozer will get amnesty in summer of 2014 when Mirotic comes over..Names that come to mind for possible 2nd star that plays SG or SF include James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Eric Gordon...
Only Harden would even be close potentially, and still doubtful. If you're going to have all of your scoring punch in the backcourt, you'd honestly need like a Bryant in his prime type considering the frontcourt you name.

Noah and Gibson? Where is any offense at all there? Neither player can dribble or create their own shot even a little. This may be fine for the time period when you were likely here when you could "dream of being the Pistons."

The 04 Pistons would get skullpounded in this league.

Let's, for fun, look at SGs who were at least clear #2s on teams that were not "teams by committee" like the Pistons. Other than Rose and "said SG" your lineup offers no individual offense, so this guy has to be a really big time scorer to make it work v. a high quality league.

Career TS% - SGs who were either the scoring leader or #2 on teams not by committee:

Manu Ginobili - 15.2 PPG, 59.1%
Ray Allen - 20.0 PPG, 57.9%
Michael Jordan - 30.1 PPG, 56.9%
Dwyane Wade - 25.2 PPG, 56.6%
Kobe Bryant - 25.4 PPG, 55.4%

Now let's look at your list:

James Harden 12.7 PPG, 60.5%
Eric Gordon 18.2 PPG, 57.5%
Andre Iguodala 15.3 PPG, 55.4%
Rudy Gay 17.9 PPG, 53.0%
Tyreke Evans 18.2 PPG, 51.0%

So, keep in mind that obviously Ginobili and Allen showed that it's much easier to shoot a high TS% when you just don't score that much. Right off the bat, Gay and Evans are awful. Iguodala doesn't average #2 PPG.

Harden shoots a high percentage, but right now he's a 3rd option, things are easy.

Gordon is the only one you listed whose numbers even get to the bottom of "intriguing." Enough to win when all the scoring is in the backcourt and your frontcourt is horrendous offensively? Doubtful.
 

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Noah and Gibson? Where is any offense at all there? Neither player can dribble or create their own shot even a little.

Ha. Noah is maybe the best ballhandling center in the NBA. I'm struggling right now to come up with someone better. I'm with you that he's not a shot creator, but to say he can't dribble is nutty.
 

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Ha. Noah is maybe the best ballhandling center in the NBA. I'm struggling right now to come up with someone better. I'm with you that he's not a shot creator, but to say he can't dribble is nutty.
I was saying dribbling in the context of dribbles you need to make as a center if you're going to have a face up game to try to get to the basket with a guy in your face. I'm not saying he can't dribble in terms of just game flow.

I've always said Noah would be a great 30 MPG backup 4/5 to come in for both guys. So you get an offensive center like a Bynum with Gibson, you have size and post game with a player with range, defense, energy, put backs, and then a guy like Noah could replace both of them. I know it's a lot of assets, but then you could basically have Rose and a bunch of low paid guys/rookie contract guys at the backup 1 and at the starting and backup 2 and 3.

Start with this:

PG Rose
SG
SF
PF Gibson, Noah
C Bynum (high end)/Cousins (low end), Noah

And you could fill the rest of the roster with utter manure that plays to their roles. The PG version of Will Perdue, two SG versions of Will Perdue and two SF versions of Stacey King lol.
 

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Joakim Noah can dribble well for a center in any context, please give that one up. There are many ways in which Noah can be legitimately criticized - lack of a post game, lack of bulk, spotty (though improving) shooting that takes too long to load up, occasionally questionable conditioning, etc... but his abilities to pass, dribble, rebound and play team defense are among the top 5-7 in the league at the center position in my opinion, and I'm trying to be conservative.

That being said I agree that a Gibson/Noah pairing is far from ideal given some of the redundancy of their strengths/weaknesses. I'd love a Noah/Bynum pairing, I just don't see how Andrew Bynum is a viable option for us at this point - why the hell would the Lakers give him to anyone for anything other than Dwight Howard or another comparable franchise type center prospect?
 

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Yeah, we're not giving away Bynum guys. Sorry.

But the OP is right, plug a James Harden or something into the equation and all of a sudden y'all are probably the favorites. I don't really understand why it's become cool to shit on the Bulls lately, you guys have a great team.

What 260 pound back to the basket guy did the Heat have this last year? The Mavs the year before? You can certainly run your offense through perimeter players, just look at the Heat.
 

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What 260 pound back to the basket guy did the Heat have this last year? The Mavs the year before? You can certainly run your offense through perimeter players, just look at the Heat.
You are definitely right, it is all about efficiency. Efficiency can come in many forms; low-post scoring is just one of those forms.
 

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Joakim Noah can dribble well for a center in any context, please give that one up. There are many ways in which Noah can be legitimately criticized - lack of a post game, lack of bulk, spotty (though improving) shooting that takes too long to load up, occasionally questionable conditioning, etc... but his abilities to pass, dribble, rebound and play team defense are among the top 5-7 in the league at the center position in my opinion, and I'm trying to be conservative.
My point is that he does nothing on par with even a good top 3 scoring option. I assume we all know he can't post, but I was making the point that it's not like he's going to have a good defensive center in his face, dribble right around him and dunk either. Picture a David Robinson/Tim Duncan type faceup attack, and no I don't mean in terms of magnitude, just technique.

None of what you pointed out matters IF we have all of our scoring in the backcourt. Now, have him come off the bench for a Bynum/Gibson duo and it's great. Or even have him start at the four with Bynum at the 5 and bring Gibson off the bench and it's great.

But if you go Rose/Gordon, none of that matters.

That being said I agree that a Gibson/Noah pairing is far from ideal given some of the redundancy of their strengths/weaknesses. I'd love a Noah/Bynum pairing, I just don't see how Andrew Bynum is a viable option for us at this point - why the hell would the Lakers give him to anyone for anything other than Dwight Howard or another comparable franchise type center prospect?
Well I've heard the idea of us getting in as a third team. LA gets Howard, we get Bynum and then Orlando gets Noah OR Deng (so obviously here I'm talking them getting Deng), Charlotte pick, 2 other first rounders from us and a bunch of other picks and any player they actually want from LA.

If you're Paxson, you make it happen even without the Howard deal. "Hey, you guys have post game in Gasol" (First, I'd argue Gasol's best game is when he's out there with a PF like Odom and HE is the guy in the post) - How about Deng, Charlotte pick, Mirotic, other picks, etc.

I'd also send Noah, but I was trying to talk in the context of you wanting and Noah/Bynum pairing.
 

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Yeah, we're not giving away Bynum guys. Sorry.

But the OP is right, plug a James Harden or something into the equation and all of a sudden y'all are probably the favorites. I don't really understand why it's become cool to shit on the Bulls lately, you guys have a great team.
Don't give up anyone and you won't get a ring. Gasol brings you nothing back..

How are we the favorites? Harden was on a team with two guys who could score like Rose. Did that team do what I thought they would do and beat Miami? Plus, you're not just "plugging Harden in" - you're going to have to GIVE plenty for him.

What 260 pound back to the basket guy did the Heat have this last year? The Mavs the year before? You can certainly run your offense through perimeter players, just look at the Heat.
That's as stupid as (the statement, not you for making it) "hey, you can win without a center. The Bulls did."

Are Lebron James or Michael Jordan showing up here next year? Because if they are, then I'll abandon a lot of requirements I have for this team.

The Mavs title was more of a reflection of Miami still gelling as it was how good they were, Dirk was absolutely on fire and Chandler caused serious problems in the paint for Miami. The type which Noah never has caused them.
 

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Don't give up anyone and you won't get a ring. Gasol brings you nothing back..
There are three teams that have a chance at winning a title next year. Miami, OKC, and the Lakers. You could throw the Bulls into that category if Rose comes back healthy, but that's an if at this point. We match up beautifully with Miami, and OKC has shown that they are not unbeatable. I feel confident going into next season.

How are we the favorites? Harden was on a team with two guys who could score like Rose. Did that team do what I thought they would do and beat Miami? Plus, you're not just "plugging Harden in" - you're going to have to GIVE plenty for him.
And if Harden doesn't play like a deer in headlights than that series goes to 7 with OKC possibly winning. But I'll chalk that up to him being 22 years old and give him a pass. Yes, y'all would have to give up something substantial for him. That's fair.

That's as stupid as (the statement, not you for making it) "hey, you can win without a center. The Bulls did."

Are Lebron James or Michael Jordan showing up here next year? Because if they are, then I'll abandon a lot of requirements I have for this team.

The Mavs title was more of a reflection of Miami still gelling as it was how good they were, Dirk was absolutely on fire and Chandler caused serious problems in the paint for Miami. The type which Noah never has caused them.
I am shocked that you just put LeBron in the same sentence as MJ. I've seen it all folks.

Rose isn't that incredible, but when healthy he's still a top five player in this league. He's good enough to win a title with a good enough team around him. Give him a reliable second option without sacrificing the team's defense and the Bulls are legitimate contenders.
 

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There are three teams that have a chance at winning a title next year. Miami, OKC, and the Lakers. You could throw the Bulls into that category if Rose comes back healthy, but that's an if at this point. We match up beautifully with Miami, and OKC has shown that they are not unbeatable. I feel confident going into next season.
Where did you get better than you were last year? Don't get me wrong, I hate Miami, and would love anyone (eyeroll) EVEN you to beat them. That said, you're the same team with a 50 year old Steve Nash.

And if Harden doesn't play like a deer in headlights than that series goes to 7 with OKC possibly winning. But I'll chalk that up to him being 22 years old and give him a pass. Yes, y'all would have to give up something substantial for him. That's fair.
Yes, we'll never have Harden, Rose AND the other qualities the last couple teams have possessed. It will likely be Harden, Rose and a far lesser supporting cast. Harden and Rose don't jump off the page to me as a dominant headline act amongst champions.

I am shocked that you just put LeBron in the same sentence as MJ. I've seen it all folks.

Rose isn't that incredible, but when healthy he's still a top five player in this league. He's good enough to win a title with a good enough team around him. Give him a reliable second option without sacrificing the team's defense and the Bulls are legitimate contenders.
The distance between Rose and Lebron is farther than the difference between Lebron and MJ. MJ is the best ever. Lebron will retire between 2nd and 6th. Rose will struggle to be in the top 20 ever.
 
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