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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. First he runs Michael, Phil, and Scottie off.
2. Loses with a bunch of stiffs.
3. Drafts two All-Stars Brand/Artest. Picks up another thru FA - Miller.
4. Trades them for a loser - Rose
5. Still losing....
6. Drafts 2 high schoolers ?????????
7. Hires a rookie coach.
8. Hires another rookie coach.
9. Quits!

I'm sure you all could add details. I'd like to see them. This is the "I Hate Jerry Krause" thread.
 

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Knocked us out of getting jordan back in 2001
Knocked us out of signing Tmac

i still havent fig out why you break up a team that has won 3 rings in a row and 6 of out the last 8 and we all know all 4 key players to that team still had 2-4yr's of bball left.

maybe he didnt want the team to lose the next yr wanted them to go down the way they did i dont know has he ever said why he did it?
 

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Originally posted by <b>lorgg</b>!
1. First he runs Michael, Phil, and Scottie off.
2. Loses with a bunch of stiffs.
3. Drafts two All-Stars Brand/Artest. Picks up another thru FA - Miller.
4. Trades them for a loser - Rose
5. Still losing....
6. Drafts 2 high schoolers ?????????
7. Hires a rookie coach.
8. Hires another rookie coach.
9. Quits!

I'm sure you all could add details. I'd like to see them. This is the "I Hate Jerry Krause" thread.
I'm going to address this because I really think you have been misinformed.

1.) he didn't "run off" Scottie, Phil, and MJ. They weren't exactly buddies but Krause made a huge offer to both MJ & Pip to stay on, they declined, what is he suppossed to do, kidnap them? Scottie had entered into a long term deal coming off of a back injury and Krause even told him he would be better served signing a short term deal so his salary would be in line with the market in the future, Scottie declined wanting stability and then a couple of years later was upset about it and bad mouthed the orginization. Scottie was leaving the Bulls because of his own mistake in judgement and there was nothing Krause could do about it, under the old CBA he couldn't even renegotiate Pips contract if he wanted too! Krause did the classy thing and sign & traded Pip to Houston for next to nothing so Pip could make more money. Also, you may not be aware but Krause actually convinced PJ to stick around a few more years when he was ready to leave after the first threepeat.

2.) Ummm, the Bulls didn't have any serious assetts, their best players had retired or left via sign & trade for nothing (Pip). Or retired, Rodman & MJ. What exactly were the Bulls suppossed to do? They hadn't had a high draft pick since like 86 or so. The bottom line is the only thing TO do was lose some games and stockile some draft picks. If there was anything else they could do I sure don't know what it would be.

3.) I don't see anything wrong with drafting and signing all star quality players before anyone else knew thats what they were.

4.) Krause was pressured into making this trade by Reinsdorf. By all accounts this wasn't something he wanted to do and he was the last to sign off on it. It may even play a part in his stepping down.

5.) Yeah, we still have young developing players.

6.) two high schoolers with all star potential smeared all over them.

7.) That may be a fair criticism.

8.) ditto
 

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I've lost my love for the man is well, but I certainly don't criticize him for "running off" MJ and company. That was pure Phil Jackson.

I do agree that Jerry picked the wrong coaches and set this franchise back in that regard.
 

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What did Krause do right since 1998?
 

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any GM who can trade a future hall of famer like pippen for a legendary cowpoke like roy rogers is ok with me.yeeehaa
 

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Originally posted by <b>max6216</b>!
any GM who can trade a future hall of famer like pippen for a legendary cowpoke like roy rogers is ok with me.yeeehaa

That was a sign and trade. The Bulls were doing Pip a favor so he could make a few million a year. Big difference from a real trade on the Bulls end. Everyone knew Pip was going to sign elsewhere so Krause couldn't leverage for anything.
 

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I believe he did the same favor for Luke Longley (Phoenix) and Steve Kerr (San Antonio).

Also, please remember that the CBA was changed during the Summer of TMac and TDuncan. It was changed the way it was, in a large part due to the fact that the other owners knew that Jerry had mega-bucks to throw at TMac and Duncan. All of the sudden, new MAX structure set up, where now some other teams can compete with the Bull to match the salary.

Prior to the new MAX, no other team could have offered the same amount as Krause could under the cap.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
I believe he did the same favor for Luke Longley (Phoenix) and Steve Kerr (San Antonio).

Also, please remember that the CBA was changed during the Summer of TMac and TDuncan. It was changed the way it was, in a large part due to the fact that the other owners knew that Jerry had mega-bucks to throw at TMac and Duncan. All of the sudden, new MAX structure set up, where now some other teams can compete with the Bull to match the salary.

Prior to the new MAX, no other team could have offered the same amount as Krause could under the cap.
:yes: :yes: :yes:

Good point. The Bulls were left scrambling after they chabged the way things had been done for decades.
 

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Prior to the new MAX, no other team could have offered the same amount as Krause could under the cap.
so the Team Owners are what really knocked us out of Tmac not JK?i didnt know about the CBA thing i just always heard that TMac didnt sign bc MJ didnt like JK or what JK did to MJ some crap like dat...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ACE!!!
Are you crazy?

He did run them off. He did nothing to perpetuate the "family" as other 'professional" organizations do. JR should be remove as the guy who calls the shots, also, he hasn't done squat with the white sox either.

Allow me to ask you what the model NBA franchises--LA Lakers-- Celtics have done. They did what it took to keep their people happy so leaving wasn't even considered. Magic stayed, Kareem stayed, Bird stayed, Mchale, Parish.....right down the line.

You, ACE, are a Krause appologist and thinking like yours is the reason the Bulls have been the worst for the 6 years.

Bottom line -- JK and JR could and should have kept the championship core here to continue the winning environment. Instead, we have to have our coach force players to stay after to get in shape.

I hate you and Jerry Krause.
 

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Originally posted by <b>lorgg</b>!
ACE!!!
Are you crazy?

He did run them off. He did nothing to perpetuate the "family" as other 'professional" organizations do. JR should be remove as the guy who calls the shots, also, he hasn't done squat with the white sox either.

Allow me to ask you what the model NBA franchises--LA Lakers-- Celtics have done. They did what it took to keep their people happy so leaving wasn't even considered. Magic stayed, Kareem stayed, Bird stayed, Mchale, Parish.....right down the line.

You, ACE, are a Krause appologist and thinking like yours is the reason the Bulls have been the worst for the 6 years.

Bottom line -- JK and JR could and should have kept the championship core here to continue the winning environment. Instead, we have to have our coach force players to stay after to get in shape.

I hate you and Jerry Krause.
A little harsh, no? Jerry has done plenty of things for which to be upset, but he is subject to a lot of misattribution of blame as well. The guy is gone. He's done. Why the residual hatred? And why hate Ace!?

By all accounts he's a pretty nice guy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Re: I hate Jerry Krause

Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!


I'm going to address this because I really think you have been misinformed.

1.) he didn't "run off" Scottie, Phil, and MJ. They weren't exactly buddies but Krause made a huge offer to both MJ & Pip to stay on, they declined, what is he suppossed to do, kidnap them? Scottie had entered into a long term deal coming off of a back injury and Krause even told him he would be better served signing a short term deal so his salary would be in line with the market in the future, Scottie declined wanting stability and then a couple of years later was upset about it and bad mouthed the orginization. Scottie was leaving the Bulls because of his own mistake in judgement and there was nothing Krause could do about it, under the old CBA he couldn't even renegotiate Pips contract if he wanted too! Krause did the classy thing and sign & traded Pip to Houston for next to nothing so Pip could make more money. Also, you may not be aware but Krause actually convinced PJ to stick around a few more years when he was ready to leave after the first threepeat.

2.) Ummm, the Bulls didn't have any serious assetts, their best players had retired or left via sign & trade for nothing (Pip). Or retired, Rodman & MJ. What exactly were the Bulls suppossed to do? They hadn't had a high draft pick since like 86 or so. The bottom line is the only thing TO do was lose some games and stockile some draft picks. If there was anything else they could do I sure don't know what it would be.

3.) I don't see anything wrong with drafting and signing all star quality players before anyone else knew thats what they were.

4.) Krause was pressured into making this trade by Reinsdorf. By all accounts this wasn't something he wanted to do and he was the last to sign off on it. It may even play a part in his stepping down.

5.) Yeah, we still have young developing players.

6.) two high schoolers with all star potential smeared all over them.

7.) That may be a fair criticism.

8.) ditto

Further, for any of you who fail to value what we "had" look at what we "have". Jordan should still be a part of this org. and Krause allowed him to want to leave. Also Phil - the greatest coach ever - was pushed away. So i put the blame on JK and JR b/c they did not do what it took politically and financially to keep the greatest coach and player ever.
 

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Originally posted by <b>lorgg</b>!
ACE!!!
Are you crazy?

He did run them off. He did nothing to perpetuate the "family" as other 'professional" organizations do. JR should be remove as the guy who calls the shots, also, he hasn't done squat with the white sox either.

Allow me to ask you what the model NBA franchises--LA Lakers-- Celtics have done. They did what it took to keep their people happy so leaving wasn't even considered. Magic stayed, Kareem stayed, Bird stayed, Mchale, Parish.....right down the line.

You, ACE, are a Krause appologist and thinking like yours is the reason the Bulls have been the worst for the 6 years.

Bottom line -- JK and JR could and should have kept the championship core here to continue the winning environment. Instead, we have to have our coach force players to stay after to get in shape.



I hate you and Jerry Krause.
Mj didn't like Krause. There was nothing to be done about that except firing Krause and I disagree with that. Players are players and the moment you let them start dictating what happens in the front office you welcome in chaos. The Bulls paid MJ over 30million his last year and made a similar offer for him to stay. They also offered PJ a buttload of money. You call me a Krause apologist, I don't think he has anything TO apologize for. AT least not when it comes to "breaking up the big 3". MJ, PJ, and Pip were all as culpable as Krause was IMO and it's only fans who love their hero's so and refuse to accept that they could do any wrong that perpetuate the whole Krause myth. Most of the Bulls players now love Krause to death, what does that tell you?

In any case, in my mind the whole thing is a non-issue. The only reason it is ever brought up is by people who have a media induced hatred for Krause over something he had about as much control over as the sun rising and setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
30 milions is chump change. Krause should have made Jordan, Pippen, Phil like him!

I guess all you Krause appologists don't find value and joy in 6 championships.

It's just a shame that these young players were being mentored by Oakley, Rose, Cartwright, Floyd. Granted we may not have the same young players with all this "potential", but show me a team that has builta champion just thru the draft unless they get a lucky all-star like TD.

JK/JR decapitated this org.'s greatness so no FA wanted to come b/c they hated Krause and didn't even know him. So that just left the draft and here we are ..with under achieving lottery picks, loser mentality, and short sided trade results.

Thanks Jerrys and any fan that defends them..shame on you.
 

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Originally posted by <b>lorgg</b>!
30 milions is chump change. Krause should have made Jordan, Pippen, Phil like him!

I guess all you Krause appologists don't find value and joy in 6 championships.

It's just a shame that these young players were being mentored by Oakley, Rose, Cartwright, Floyd. Granted we may not have the same young players with all this "potential", but show me a team that has builta champion just thru the draft unless they get a lucky all-star like TD.

JK/JR decapitated this org.'s greatness so no FA wanted to come b/c they hated Krause and didn't even know him. So that just left the draft and here we are ..with under achieving lottery picks, loser mentality, and short sided trade results.

Thanks Jerrys and any fan that defends them..shame on you.
30+ million a year is chump change? Thats the highest ANY NBA player has ever been payed in a season.

ok...I'm through with this, you lost what little credibility you had with that statement. Clearly it is easier for you to single out Krause and blame him for something that 4 people ALL played a part in. There is no way I would ever convince you otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
How many years did Jordan make Squat?

I rememeber his salary being less than the top paid players for a number of years. The Bulls--JK/JR milked him and finally paid him. They could have kissed his *** and kept him. PERIOD!

I guess you just don't understand what we "had".
 

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Originally posted by <b>lorgg</b>!
How many years did Jordan make Squat?

I rememeber his salary being less than the top paid players for a number of years. The Bulls--JK/JR milked him and finally paid him. They could have kissed his *** and kept him. PERIOD!

I guess you just don't understand what we "had".
Oh I undertstand perfectly well what we had. I Was HUGE Bulls fan during the championship years just as I am now. I started following the team in 1988 when I was 18. I remember when I worked at UPS and MJ retired and there were rumors that he was coming back. I told the guys I worked with "If MJ comes back the Bulls will win 70 games next season" and they thought I was crazy. Lo and behold they win 72.

Your mistaken on the situation with Jordan. I would reccomend that you read the Jordan Rules and Blood on the horns. MJ voluntarily TOOK a reduced salary so that the Bulls could fit the necessary pieces in around him. And THEN he got his big payday. It didn't really matter what MJ's salary was, he made 10 times as much in endorsement money anyway.

The bottom line is that they offered MJ & PJ a LOT of money to stay and they didn't want to. PJ needed to have back surgery, MJ wanted to "retire". It was actually probably a blessing in disguise because MJ injured his thumb with a cigar cutter and wouldn't have been able to have played that season anyway.

As far as your suggestion that they could have "kissed their butts". Sorry, I don't want a GM or an orginization that has no respect for itself.
 

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Jerry Krause has failed miserably as a GM. His only talent is to evaluate talent, but he has no business or interpersonal skills. The Yankees just payed him 30G to be a scout and he accepted!! What a loser!! :D
 
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