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Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!
Trading Jamal Crawford and Best for CASSELL??? ( I know consider the source, but..)


http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_836.shtml

I say no way.:no:
Marrs is generally pretty knowledgable and usually makes for a good read. He's long campaigned that the Bulls need to add veterans, and quickly. He even went so far as to trade our #2 (Jay Williams) for an established vet this offseason.

While I don't agree w/ a Cassell acquisition, it is pretty clear that we need to add some veteran help and soon. Whether this means signing Harpring for the midlevel exemption, or trading E-Rob and filler for Kukoc, or signing Popeye Jones, something needs to be done. Our team as is, though young and exciting, isn't going to win many games next season. We just don't play enough defense to warrant any lofty predictions.

VD
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Re: I hope Chris Marrs is wrong...PLEASE?

Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!


Marrs is generally pretty knowledgable and usually makes for a good read. He's long campaigned that the Bulls need to add veterans, and quickly. He even went so far as to trade our #2 (Jay Williams) for an established vet this offseason.

Yeah, that is what scares me!

While I don't agree w/ a Cassell acquisition, it is pretty clear that we need to add some veteran help and soon. Whether this means signing Harpring for the midlevel exemption, or trading E-Rob and filler for Kukoc, or signing Popeye Jones, something needs to be done. Our team as is, though young and exciting, isn't going to win many games next season. We just don't play enough defense to warrant any lofty predictions.

VD
Kukoc still scares me everytime he handles the b-ball. I say, IF we are NOT going to acquire Lewis, at the very least, sign hardaway to mentor Jay and then sign Harpring.....this will at the very least get us started off right this season...:yes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Do what? LOL

Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
What was wrong with Kukoc as a ball handler? He was/is pretty damn good at it.
I did watch toni as a Bull, his best attribute was the 3-pointer and long range jumper. However, SO MANY times he would bring the ball across the time line only to have it taken away by double teams. I admit, he can pass it and shoot it...but toni, stop dribbling?:laugh:
 

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Re: Re: Re: I hope Chris Marrs is wrong...PLEASE?

Originally posted by <b>BamaBull</b>!

Kukoc still scares me everytime he handles the b-ball. I say, IF we are NOT going to acquire Lewis, at the very least, sign hardaway to mentor Jay and then sign Harpring.....this will at the very least get us started off right this season...:yes:
At this point (and you can QUOTE me on this) I would rather have Kukoc than Eddie Robinson. There. I said it. So a Kukoc for E-Rob and Best (signNtrade) deal would be fine with me.

Why?
Money talks and Robinson is going to get minutes, bungled toe or not. At this point, I would rather see Hassell get the lionshare of minutes alongside Rose and Crawford/Williams. He's proven to me he is already a better player. He's the best on the ball defender the Bulls have and he gives us the occasional 3 bomb and a steady jumper. Exactly what the Bulls need. But again, Robinson will get his minutes b/c of $$$ and to drive up his trade value. Not to mention the fact he's signed for another 5 seasons.

Also, Kukoc is signed for only 2 more seasons. And yes, he actually wants to play for the Bulls. Once he's off the books, we'll have plenty of jack to resign the kids and any other FAs out there. Kukoc, though on the downside of his career, is still a nice passer and scorer. And he'll give us another option down the stretch other than just dumping it to Rose play after play.

VD
 

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Good post Vin Diesel, I would also like Kukoc, he is terrific at distributing the ball and a veteran head would be a big help. He is a team player all the way. I also want to Hassell get a lot of minutes for all the points you mentioned, not to mention his passing and rebounding. He is a real good all around player.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Songcycle</b>!
Good post Vin Diesel, I would also like Kukoc, he is terrific at distributing the ball and a veteran head would be a big help. He is a team player all the way. I also want to Hassell get a lot of minutes for all the points you mentioned, not to mention his passing and rebounding. He is a real good all around player.
Agreed. Hassell has shown himself to be a solid all around player.

Add to that his willingness to take the ball to the hoop (one thing I left out). He may not be the most effective slasher or have the best handles, but I do remember him being a good finisher around the hoop. He bailed out the young Bulls on many a possession last season. While Hassell may not do anything exceptionally well, but he does a whole lot of things very well... and is just the type of player the Bulls need to give minutes to.

The Bulls finally have a young guard/swing player with an all around game. It would be a shame to see him lose minutes to one-dimensional players based on $$$, signed contracts, or politics (ala Mercer, Robinson). We'll shall soon see how the season and playing time pans out.

VD
 

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Quote: Our team as is, though young and exciting, isn't going to win many games next season. We just don't play enough defense to warrant any lofty predictions. -- Vin Diesel

This is correct. However, while Kukoc is an established vet, and can be an offensive threat, he's no help in filling the hole defensively. Between E-Rob and Kukoc, I'd take Kukoc, but again, that leaves the question of Where's the D?

To get back to the main thread, a pouty crybaby vet like Cassell would be poson to a young team looking for leadership. Rose is a good role model, but Cassell would surely cancel that good influence. If there is anything MJ and Scottie tought the young guys its commitment, relentless effort and professionalism (1.8 seconds of lapse of all three of the above notwithstanding). Casselll is not known for any of those qualities.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
What was wrong with Kukoc as a ball handler? He was/is pretty damn good at it.
That was the one thing i really enjoyed about Toni. He handled the ball well and got other players involved. When i read the article on JK trying to trade for Toni, it made sense to me. Still does. Toni plus Jalen will (would have) helped accelerate the learning and development of Curry and chandler. I also think having Toni here would help Jay.

As for cassell. He is a player but has complained at milwaukee year after year. Do we want that here?
 

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I would love to see the Bulls get Cassell. It would give the Bulls two proven scorers and add the right mix of veterans and youth to the club.

I would love to see the Bulls get Kukoc back, as well.

If the trade could be Jamal+Best+ERob for Casell and Kukoc, I'd jump all over it.

Consider what the rotation would be:

Rose, Casell, Kukoc, Chandler, Curry, Williams, Hassell, Fizer...

The team could have two of the three veterans on the floor at all times, with the ability to groom the youngsters in an environment where the team has the chance to win most games.
 

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You guys really prefer Kukoc of today to E-Rob? Man, I REALLY wish E-Rob hadn't injured that toe. I think you will be pleasantly surprised next season if E-Robs toe heals.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
You guys really prefer Kukoc of today to E-Rob? Man, I REALLY wish E-Rob hadn't injured that toe. I think you will be pleasantly surprised next season if E-Robs toe heals.

What kind of minutes and production do you expect of ERob, if he's healthy?

Also, do you actually think he'll heal?

The way I see it, the absolute max he'll get is around 20 mpg. The reason being it looks certain we'll bring in another SF. Plus, Hassell and Crawford are both deserving of some minutes, and coupled with Rose, that eats into the minutes available for ERob.

With that kind of time, I don't see how ERob produces much more than the 9 points and 3 boards he got last year.

So, based on that estimate of what ERob will bring, I think about what Kukoc would bring.
* Probably about the same PPG and rebounding.
* More assists and better passing in general.
* More Flexibility in the Toni can play the 4. (Which would make it easier to bring in Harpring or Marshall)
* More Flexibility in that Toni can shoot the 3.
* More salary cap room in a couple of years when we need it.
 

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ace20004u, I think if healthy, ERob will be a pleasant surprise. He was injured, but so many have written him off. That sort of thing happens in sports, patience is the key.
 

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Mike, when E-Rob played in the preseason his averages where like: 35mpg, 17ppg, 5rpg, 2apg (or thereabouts).

I can't predict IF he will be healthy or not, thats the $31.2million question right now. But, if he is healthy I will predict this statline for him next season:

27mpg, 14ppg, 5rpg, 1apg, 1spg, 1bpg fg%48, also, I will predict that he plays much better defense.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
Mike, when E-Rob played in the preseason his averages where like: 35mpg, 17ppg, 5rpg, 2apg (or thereabouts).

I can't predict IF he will be healthy or not, thats the $31.2million question right now. But, if he is healthy I will predict this statline for him next season:

27mpg, 14ppg, 5rpg, 1apg, 1spg, 1bpg fg%48, also, I will predict that he plays much better defense.

I will not argue that Robinson will put up better numbers next season. He has nowhere to go but up.

But stats fall short (in my mind) when they don't help a team put up W's. He could have a Ron Mercer-esque season, score 15pts a night and grab a few boards. So what? That would still not justify his contract or the expectations us Bulls fans have of him.

A better indicator than just points is defense, rebounding, and assists. This is where I believe Hassell is just a better fit for the Bulls right now. So I still hope Hassell gets the most minutes alongside Rose, and E-Rob gets to prove his worth as a 6th man. Having Rose and E-Rob on the fast break is nice, but they cannot guard anyone in the half court. THats even scarier to me. Until Robinson can play better D and have an all around game, I don't give him minutes, big contract or not.

VD
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
Mike, when E-Rob played in the preseason his averages where like: 35mpg, 17ppg, 5rpg, 2apg (or thereabouts).

I can't predict IF he will be healthy or not, thats the $31.2million question right now. But, if he is healthy I will predict this statline for him next season:

27mpg, 14ppg, 5rpg, 1apg, 1spg, 1bpg fg%48, also, I will predict that he plays much better defense.
Wow, I just can't picture ERob getting those kind of minutes. Think about it, there are 96 minutes to go around at the wing spots. Assuming no major injuries skew things, Rose will be getting at least 36 of them. That leaves 60 to split between Hassell, ERob, Crawford, and whichever other SF they bring in. Personally, I have a hard time seeing ERob beat out Hassell for PT, and I don't think he'll beat out Harpring for major minutes either.

The only way i see that ERob plays that much is if we don't bring in another SF. At least, not one of the calibre of Harpring or Marshall.
 

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I think Rose will have the sg spot locked up full time. I think Harpring or Marshall are certainly good enough to challenge E-Rob for the starting sf spot, still, I see E-Rob just barely nudging them outand winning it. I think Harpring or Marshall will see 21 minutes backing him up at sf. I don't expect Hassell to get any minutes backing up the sf spot because of his heigth. He will get a few minutes backing up Rose, but as the rotations tighten he will see less minutes next season IMO.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
I think Rose will have the sg spot locked up full time. I think Harpring or Marshall are certainly good enough to challenge E-Rob for the starting sf spot, still, I see E-Rob just barely nudging them outand winning it. I think Harpring or Marshall will see 21 minutes backing him up at sf. I don't expect Hassell to get any minutes backing up the sf spot because of his heigth. He will get a few minutes backing up Rose, but as the rotations tighten he will see less minutes next season IMO.
Ace, maybe we're watching a different team but.. if the Bulls sign Harpring, he starts. He started all 81 games for the Sixers last season, and has the defense, toughness, and intangibles the Bulls need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sixers were a pretty decent team last year, and Harpring often guarded the opposing team's best wing player. He's a proven player, a veteran, and would be nice fit for the Bulls.

Eddie hasn't shown much if you ask me. Preseason stats don't mean jack and aren't very reliable unless we can get excited about the likes of Toby Bailey, Khalid El-Amin or anyone else who you can remember tearing up the preseason.

With Harpring signed, if anyone Eddie will be challenging for minutes it will be Hassell. Even then, I just don't see him getting any more than 20mpg, and even that figure is a stretch.

VD
 
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