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I don't truly hate Kobe. But when you invest Kobe you take along everything else that he brings. Do you really believe Kobe will ever be able to get along with another superstar? This is what it's going to take in order for Lakers to be a premier team again. I want to believe, and it's possible. The dude needs to change his attitude first. Once that happends then the Lakers might go somewhere again.
 

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compsciguy78 said:
I don't truly hate Kobe. But when you invest Kobe you take along everything else that he brings. Do you really believe Kobe will ever be able to get along with another superstar? This is what it's going to take in order for Lakers to be a premier team again. I want to believe, and it's possible. The dude needs to change his attitude first. Once that happends then the Lakers might go somewhere again.

I think if he ever had a problem with sharing the spotlight before.. This season is going to beat that thought out of his head, because I cant honestly believe Kobe would rather have another season like this... Than share the floor with more talaneted teammates.

I think PJ will come back. I think Kobe will be fine. I've always trusted the Lakers, and they have never let me down. It trust there judgement. This season has always been said to be a rebuilding year. We all execpted playoffs, but that wasnt garuenteed.
 

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CDRacingZX6R said:
I think if he ever had a problem with sharing the spotlight before.. This season is going to beat that thought out of his head, because I cant honestly believe Kobe would rather have another season like this... Than share the floor with more talaneted teammates.
Bingo.

Still, I don't think it was ever Kobe's desire to play with a bunch of scrubs. Surely he thought Lamar Odom would be a better 2nd option for example. But if he doesn't understand now that he needs some great talent around him to win, he'll never understand. There's no way he'll be up in Mitch's face saying, "no don't get that guy, he's too good, we'd win too easily with him."
 

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Locke said:
Bingo.

Still, I don't think it was ever Kobe's desire to play with a bunch of scrubs. Surely he thought Lamar Odom would be a better 2nd option for example. But if he doesn't understand now that he needs some great talent around him to win, he'll never understand. There's no way he'll be up in Mitch's face saying, "no don't get that guy, he's too good, we'd win too easily with him."
Yeah, but guys i would like to see kobe get another championship, but hes not going to JUST work with anyone, its gotta be someone that is willing to work with kobe because face it...if shaq and kobe DID get along i think that the lakers could have won a little more than 3 championships..i think they could have won 4 or 5 titles.
 

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What the heck are you talking about.. Kobe's attitude problem? He's been supportive of this team and usually after losses says something to "We're trying, we're young, we're learning, Yada Yada Yada." What's wrong with that? ::Confused::
 

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Brian34Cook said:
What the heck are you talking about.. Kobe's attitude problem? He's been supportive of this team and usually after losses says something to "We're trying, we're young, we're learning, Yada Yada Yada." What's wrong with that? ::Confused::
He's implying that Kobe wouldn't want to share the spotlight with another legitimate superstar like a KG, Amare or Yao the way he may not have wanted to with Shaq.
 

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Didn't the Lakers win 3 titles with Kobe playing alongside the guy who was the best player in the game? That's why it's funny when people say he can't get along with other superstars. The reason he didn't get along with Shaq, is because Shaq is just as big of an egomaniac, and they both had to be #1 option. But you see what happens when Shaq plays alongside a humble player like Dwyane Wade who is willing to defer and be #2 and give most credit to Shaq. The only problem you'd have is if Kobe wasn't good enough to be a 1st option, and refused to be anything other than 1st option, but that isn't the case. Kobe is a top 5 player who is definitely worthy of being a 1st option.

Kobe and Odom get along perfect, the problem is that most of what Odom brings to the table, Kobe does it better, so their skills overlap and Odom gets left with rebounding and spot shooting, and a little bit of creating. Put Kobe with a player who is at his best without the ball in his hands (elite defender or sharpshooter), and the two will thrive together. Pippen made his living dominating off the ball, which is why him and Jordan were able to dominate so much, because they could both be at their best at the same time on the floor without their skills overlapping.

Odom is the guy who has trouble being a 2nd option. We saw it last year, there is no way Dwyane Wade improved that much from the regular season to the playoffs to this year. Odom was the 1st option on that Heat team, and the way he dominates the ball was holding Wade back. In the playoffs, when they turned the team over to Wade, Odom started struggling. Odom is a guy who struggles being a 2nd option despite the fact that a team with him as the 1st option would probably never win a title. That makes him overrated in my book.
 

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Sir Patchwork said:
Didn't the Lakers win 3 titles with Kobe playing alongside the guy who was the best player in the game? That's why it's funny when people say he can't get along with other superstars. The reason he didn't get along with Shaq, is because Shaq is just as big of an egomaniac, and they both had to be #1 option. But you see what happens when Shaq plays alongside a humble player like Dwyane Wade who is willing to defer and be #2 and give most credit to Shaq. The only problem you'd have is if Kobe wasn't good enough to be a 1st option, and refused to be anything other than 1st option, but that isn't the case. Kobe is a top 5 player who is definitely worthy of being a 1st option.

Kobe and Odom get along perfect, the problem is that most of what Odom brings to the table, Kobe does it better, so their skills overlap and Odom gets left with rebounding and spot shooting, and a little bit of creating. Put Kobe with a player who is at his best without the ball in his hands (elite defender or sharpshooter), and the two will thrive together. Pippen made his living dominating off the ball, which is why him and Jordan were able to dominate so much, because they could both be at their best at the same time on the floor without their skills overlapping.

Odom is the guy who has trouble being a 2nd option. We saw it last year, there is no way Dwyane Wade improved that much from the regular season to the playoffs to this year. Odom was the 1st option on that Heat team, and the way he dominates the ball was holding Wade back. In the playoffs, when they turned the team over to Wade, Odom started struggling. Odom is a guy who struggles being a 2nd option despite the fact that a team with him as the 1st option would probably never win a title. That makes him overrated in my book.
That is a SOLID post right there! :clap:
 

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Sir Patchwork said:
Didn't the Lakers win 3 titles with Kobe playing alongside the guy who was the best player in the game? That's why it's funny when people say he can't get along with other superstars. The reason he didn't get along with Shaq, is because Shaq is just as big of an egomaniac, and they both had to be #1 option. But you see what happens when Shaq plays alongside a humble player like Dwyane Wade who is willing to defer and be #2 and give most credit to Shaq. The only problem you'd have is if Kobe wasn't good enough to be a 1st option, and refused to be anything other than 1st option, but that isn't the case. Kobe is a top 5 player who is definitely worthy of being a 1st option.
I agree Kobe can be a great 1st option, but instead of gradually sliding into that role, by letting Shaq relinquish it to him, Kobe wanted it all immediately. I remember in the early 80's when most people and sportswriters were saying that Magic should be the main focus of the offense instead of Kareem because Kareem was getting on in age, but Magic respected Kareem enough (although both of them were never the best of friends) to let Kareem gracefully give up The Laker leadership when he was ready. Shaq may have been out of shape, but he was still dominant and was still the best choice for 1st option. And I do believe that Phil would be also smart enough to know when to change the main focus of the triangle from Shaq to Kobe.
Kobe was too impatient for everything to fall into place and is paying the price.






Kobe and Odom get along perfect, the problem is that most of what Odom brings to the table, Kobe does it better, so their skills overlap and Odom gets left with rebounding and spot shooting, and a little bit of creating. Put Kobe with a player who is at his best without the ball in his hands (elite defender or sharpshooter), and the two will thrive together. Pippen made his living dominating off the ball, which is why him and Jordan were able to dominate so much, because they could both be at their best at the same time on the floor without their skills overlapping.
It really doesn't matter if player skills overlap. The best players sometimes sacrifice their ability to help the team. Kobe hasn't fully learned it yet and is hurting this current Laker team. Sometimes I can see Kobe in the flow of the game and his teammates follow him, but that happens too few times.








Odom is the guy who has trouble being a 2nd option. We saw it last year, there is no way Dwyane Wade improved that much from the regular season to the playoffs to this year. Odom was the 1st option on that Heat team, and the way he dominates the ball was holding Wade back. In the playoffs, when they turned the team over to Wade, Odom started struggling. Odom is a guy who struggles being a 2nd option despite the fact that a team with him as the 1st option would probably never win a title. That makes him overrated in my book.
Are you telling me that Odom was holding back Wade? Are you serious? And Odom is overrated? That's not as bad as Odom holding back Wade, but still...Is there any way that Kobe could be a factor in holding Odom back? Or is Kobe just too much of a great player, that Odom can't handle it?
I think you better stop taking all those drugs because it's hurting your ability to think properly. :krazy:
 

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tatahbenitez said:
I agree Kobe can be a great 1st option, but instead of gradually sliding into that role, by letting Shaq relinquish it to him, Kobe wanted it all immediately. I remember in the early 80's when most people and sportswriters were saying that Magic should be the main focus of the offense instead of Kareem because Kareem was getting on in age, but Magic respected Kareem enough (although both of them were never the best of friends) to let Kareem gracefully give up The Laker leadership when he was ready. Shaq may have been out of shape, but he was still dominant and was still the best choice for 1st option. And I do believe that Phil would be also smart enough to know when to change the main focus of the triangle from Shaq to Kobe.
Kobe was too impatient for everything to fall into place and is paying the price.
Magic was a pass first player, which makes the whole comparison irrelevant, since we're comparing two elite scorers, two guys who look to score first and foremost, and can do it better than anyone in the league.

tatahbenitez said:
It really doesn't matter if player skills overlap. The best players sometimes sacrifice their ability to help the team. Kobe hasn't fully learned it yet and is hurting this current Laker team. Sometimes I can see Kobe in the flow of the game and his teammates follow him, but that happens too few times.
This shows how little you understand basketball. If Kobe and Odom do the same things, but Kobe does them better, Kobe should let Odom do those things? That would be for the better of the team? A lot of Odom's game is dribbling, dominating the ball and creating. Kobe is the guy on the Lakers who does those things, and rightfully so, he is one of the best in the league at it. Since Odom isn't able to do those things, he isn't nearly as effective.

tatahbenitez said:
Are you telling me that Odom was holding back Wade?
Yes.

tatahbenitez said:
Is there any way that Kobe could be a factor in holding Odom back?
Kobe is holding Odom back, but it's for the better of the team. If Odom was being used to his fullest ability, the Lakers would be worse, since Kobe does those things much better. This is what happens when their abilities overlap. Like I explained.

tatahbenitez said:
I think you better stop taking all those drugs because it's hurting your ability to think properly. :krazy:
I think you better ask your mom if you can watch more than one game a week, because it's hurting your ability to understand basic basketball concepts.
 

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Sir Patchwork said:
Magic was a pass first player, which makes the whole comparison irrelevant, since we're comparing two elite scorers, two guys who look to score first and foremost, and can do it better than anyone in the league.



This shows how little you understand basketball. If Kobe and Odom do the same things, but Kobe does them better, Kobe should let Odom do those things? That would be for the better of the team? A lot of Odom's game is dribbling, dominating the ball and creating. Kobe is the guy on the Lakers who does those things, and rightfully so, he is one of the best in the league at it. Since Odom isn't able to do those things, he isn't nearly as effective.



Yes.



Kobe is holding Odom back, but it's for the better of the team. If Odom was being used to his fullest ability, the Lakers would be worse, since Kobe does those things much better. This is what happens when their abilities overlap. Like I explained.



I think you better ask your mom if you can watch more than one game a week, because it's hurting your ability to understand basic basketball concepts.
Hot damn! Good initial post and solid replies.
 

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tatahbenitez said:
I agree Kobe can be a great 1st option, but instead of gradually sliding into that role, by letting Shaq relinquish it to him, Kobe wanted it all immediately. I remember in the early 80's when most people and sportswriters were saying that Magic should be the main focus of the offense instead of Kareem because Kareem was getting on in age, but Magic respected Kareem enough (although both of them were never the best of friends) to let Kareem gracefully give up The Laker leadership when he was ready. Shaq may have been out of shape, but he was still dominant and was still the best choice for 1st option. And I do believe that Phil would be also smart enough to know when to change the main focus of the triangle from Shaq to Kobe.
Kobe was too impatient for everything to fall into place and is paying the price.
Comparing Shaq to Kareem is absurd. Kareem was no where near as insecure. Shaq would never give up the reins to Kobe. Ever. Phil wouldn't let Kobe have it, he'd risk hurting Shaq's feelings, and Shaq would demand a trade as a result (like he did last summer when he realized Kobe was going to be their first option).

I think you better stop taking all those drugs because it's hurting your ability to think properly. :krazy:
Hypocricy if I've ever seen it. :laugh:
 

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EHL said:
Comparing Shaq to Kareem is absurd. Kareem was no where near as insecure. Shaq would never give up the reins to Kobe. Ever. Phil wouldn't let Kobe have it, he'd risk hurting Shaq's feelings, and Shaq would demand a trade as a result (like he did last summer when he realized Kobe was going to be their first option).



Hypocricy if I've ever seen it. :laugh:
Post of the day

This is it in a nutshell glad you pointed it out.

Shaq was never ever gonna let Kobe have it. Its funny now with Shaq in Miami. He's let Wade have the reins because he knows everyone gives him credit for why the team is winning. he can play the elderly with Wade because he knows Wade will never ever openly criticize Shaq or challenge him so Shaq saying this is Wade's team is an empty comment because all the praise comes to Shaq for the turnaround.

IN LA Shaq was seen as the catalyst to a point but Kobe was given co-star credit by the media and experts. Kobe was never ever gonna give Shaq his due. Kobe was never openly overly hyped with praise of Shaq it was always grudginly.

This is because Kobe never respected Shaq's work ethic. He always thought Shaq was given undue credit when he was always the guy who cut corners.

The Shaq and Kobe relationship was built on jealousy and envy by both players.

As far as Kobe getting along with another star I don't think thats ever gonna be a problem. He will welcome it. This year hasn't taught him the lesson of winning by himself. Those that think Kobe was blind and naive and thought he could will a mediocre team to a title are foolish. Kobe won titles and realizes how hard it is to become a champion. I think everyone elses expectations were higher than his. He expected a struggle he's no fool he understood what a great center meant to the team.

Compsciguy I think is underestimating Kobe's overall instincts for the game. Why he thinks Kobe's overall attitude needs an adjustment is beyond me.
 

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Reading this thread it sounds like Shaq was the problem.
Kobe apologists & rewriting history will not help in resurrecting our Laker's.
Kobe got what he wanted, it's his team...yet our losing is other's fault?
Does Kobe have issues with taking responsibility for his actions?
Funny but weren't alot of people all run off and all or most publicly stated Kobe was the cause?
And doesn't Kobe get into many legal & personal scrapes?

Kobe feathered his nest, now he must sleep in it.
Blaming others won't resurrect our Laker's.
 

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CaHawk said:
Reading this thread it sounds like Shaq was the problem.
Kobe apologists & rewriting history will not help in resurrecting our Laker's.
Kobe got what he wanted, it's his team...yet our losing is other's fault?
Does Kobe have issues with taking responsibility for his actions?
Funny but weren't alot of people all run off and all or most publicly stated Kobe was the cause?
And doesn't Kobe get into many legal & personal scrapes?

Kobe feathered his nest, now he must sleep in it.
Blaming others won't resurrect our Laker's.
:laugh: :boohoo:

I’ve always loved when people use the line “Kobe made his bed, now he must lay in it!”. :rolleyes: The reason for the team’s current situation has been discussed so many times by both sides of the argument, that mainly most in the middle have grasped the reality of the Kobe VS Shaq situation.

Was Shaq traded by Kobe? Well the gossip queens and people working for the Miami herald will say that Kobe was more powerful than Bus himself, and had him traded. Reality is that Shaq is getting old, and wanted more security than the Lakers were willing to offer. The Lakers were going to extend his contract, and give him 30 million on a year to year basis. Granted Shaq remain healthy and WORTH the money. Shaq refused this, and was insulted by the lack of loyalty of the Lakers. This was noted by both Phil Jackson and Jerry Buss as the initial reasons behind his departure. Apparently no one remembers the playoff game last year where Shaq made a monster Slam dunk, ran over to the Camera and yelled “Give me my money!”, which was later confirmed by ESPN as a contract dispute between Buss and O’Neil, and Shaq was simply “Venting his frustration”.. Last time I checked he didn’t yell “GET KOBE OUT OF HERE, OR I GO!”.

No matter how dominate he is this year, he wasn’t looking very motivated last two seasons to me. His weight gain was out of control, his injuries starting to look more serious. His famous line “I got hurt on the job, I get fixed on the job”, etc. Many people, myself included think he has maybe two more years at this level max, and he is going to crash. Lets face it the life line in sports of most athletes that weigh over 300 pounds, in there early thirty’s, and as tall as Shaq isn’t good. So giving him a 5 year contract, with one year option is insane. Doesn’t mean a different team won’t pay it, but it’s a bad mistake in my opinion.

Kobe was all set to sign with the Clippers. At this time the Lakers hadnt fully committed to him, and offered him less money than he ended up getting. Also, the tension between Phil and Kobe was still being determined, and talks with Jacksons contract also in the works. Kobe more than likely was considering the Clippers mainly because it would be a chance to part ways from Shaq and define his abilities somewhere else. I believe the original offers where just shy of the 90 million mark at the time.

He then VERBALLY agreed to join the Clippers. Shortly after that Shaq and Buss decided they wouldn’t reach an agreement, Shaq demanded to be traded. NOT kobe. Most of this is in Phil Jacksons book. And obviously it’s a book that isn’t holding back at taking punches at Kobe. When Phil wrote this, he wasn’t to happy with Kobe, so I don’t see why he would be lying.

When Shaq demanded to be traded, and requested to be traded to Miami Buss agreed. And within a short time of each other the Lakers decided losing to Franchise players would be out of the question, went beyond matching the Clippers offer, and also told Kobe that there would no longer be a Shaq on the team, and it would be his team now. Pretty simple eh?

Honestly, the EGO’s of both players probably hurt the lakers more than anything. Together they both could have had a couple more rings, and Shaq could have retired in LA and Kobe could have eventually had the Los Angeles Reins to himself anyways. Lets face it, Kobe has some solid years left in him.

Honestly, some of the Laker fans annoy me with the Kobe forced Shaq out crap. I never said they were best friends; in fact there were some pretty bad locker room verbal fights. One where Kobe even called Shaq a *****. (Also sited by Rick Fox, and Phil Jackson) But if they both could have acted like grown ups, they could have had a lot more success to come.

All I know is Shaq left because of money, Kobe stayed because of money. Both like money, both think they are worth the most they can get. I sometimes wish Kobe had went to the Clippers, and Shaq had stayed on the lakers. Cause all these “We love Shaq” fans, would be saying “Look at the Clippers, I can’t believe Shaq forced Kobe out”. Because lets face it, Kobe on the Clippers would have been a play off contender. Shaq on a fragmented Lakers would have been only a little better than the lakers are now.

But whatever, I respect both players. I appreciate what Shaq did for this team. And I appreciate what I believe Kobe will eventually do again for this team. Lets see who everyone talks about 10 years from now, I got a feeling it isn’t going to be Shaq.

Until then, people will find a way to hate Kobe or blame him. Lucky for us real fans, he doesn't give a crap what these losers think or say, he is still going to work his butt off and try and get us some rings.
:cheers:
 

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CDRacingZX6R said:
:... Lucky for us real fans, he doesn't give a crap what these losers think or say, he is still going to work his butt off and try and get us some rings.
:cheers:
Therein lies both of your problems ("real fans" and Kobe) --- not giving a damn.

Good luck with KOBE bringing you SOME rings. Better hope that a FA, any FA wants to play with Kobe, They can't trust him not to repeat anything they say to him, and they can't afford to have their eyes wander in the direction of is wife, nor do they want him going before the camera to tell the world that they CAN'T play ball. Otherwsie, you all need some prayers.
 

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Building a championship team around a superstar guard is tough because you really need another superstar that is a good compliment to put next to him. Guys like that are rare, its hard to find a player along hte lines of say.. Pippen, who is extrordinarly talented, yet unselfish and willing to be a 2nd option.
 

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Dynasty Raider said:
Therein lies both of your problems ("real fans" and Kobe) --- not giving a damn.

Good luck with KOBE bringing you SOME rings. Better hope that a FA, any FA wants to play with Kobe, They can't trust him not to repeat anything they say to him, and they can't afford to have their eyes wander in the direction of is wife, nor do they want him going before the camera to tell the world that they CAN'T play ball. Otherwsie, you all need some prayers.

I got a feeling with enough money offed a Free agent is willing to give it a shot. Just like Shaq would have stayed if he was given another 5 year contract, reguardless of Kobe present or not. But your right, in the history of basketball everyone loved each others teammates. :laugh:

It makes me laugh because you act Like Corey and Brand on the clippers are best friends, when Brand threatened to leave when his contract was expiring because he felt Corey shot the ball to much, and was making the team less efficent. What did the Clippers do? Offered him more money, and did likewise for Corey. Look how close they are on court now. :biggrin:

You are a young guy.. So I understand your logic. Dont ask how I know your under 18, its just your auora. :razz: Not to mention you think if you watch the clippers play they will lose... :uhoh: :whatever: :krazy: But when you get a little older, and learn more about basketball... (By this time you will be able to watch games without fear of your teams losing... I hope), you will notice that most basketball players are egomaniacs, and all about the money. Dose that bother me? Not really, thats really what sports is.

But anyway, continue your quest to twart the evil Bryant. It's giving me a good laugh. :cheers:
 
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