[Lizzy]

I don't know what it is but about five minutes ago I had this strong urge to have Ming on the Chicago Bulls.

Dude shoots 70% from the field. And with Curry you have someone who can play physical.

Is anyone else on the Ming train yet? I mean, if Houston takes him I'll be kind of sad.

Someone talk me out of this....I need you other Bulls fans to talk me down.

 

[Johnjo]

dont worry i used to want Ming but now i have realized that there is just no place for hm on the bulls. we have 3 projects, four if u include ERob, and he will be another one. i myself have jumped on the caron butler train. hope to see you there!

 

[Lizzy]

Wouldn't Caron Butler be considered a project?

 

[Songcycle]

I like Ming a lot and if we didn't have Curry, I'd be hoping for him. Yes, Ming has a perimeter game, but we also have Chandler. If I am not mistaken, we concured on RealGM that Krause said that Curry and Chandler could each move down a slot. I am not crazy about the idea, but HJHJR has also looked favorably on this idea. If for whatever reason we don't get Jay Williams, I wouldn't hesitate to pick MIng and if we had the #1 pick, he would be a must take and then trades would come into play. If a front line of Ming, Curry and Chandler would actually work, we might be looking at a minimum 8 peat down the road. The idea scares me some and is not a sure thing in my book, but with zone defense, the paint would be impregnable.

 

[chifaninca]

Impregnable - Wooooooo, easy there Song....Don't send me scrambling for the thesarus........LOL

I could live with Ming, but he will have adjustments and then adding the adjustments to Curry and Chandler......It seems the team would be in a huge state of transition. That being said, if we were ever going to that....next year would be the year.

I don't think Caron is as much of a project. He has a solid foundation and is very tenacious.

My favorite idea is still Odom and the 8 and 12.....If that's not out there..........A GSW trade interests me ...........

In the end, I think we will all be just fine with Jay Williams in a Bulls Uni for the next 10-15 years.

 

[Songcycle]

chifaninca, I agree with your conclusion, Jay Williams is only 20, and putting him with Curry and Chandler for the next 12 - 15 years is just fine with me. We are under no pressure to make a move.

 

[chifaninca]

Song,

That is the best thing about our situation. We don't HAVE to make a move. I think we are in a win-win situation. If someone wants to overpay for Jay Williams....fine. If not, he's ours. If he's gone, we can take Ming or trade to someone who is willing to overpay for him.


To be honest, I really believe more each day that Houston will draft Ming. Both the CHinese and Houston Officials are spending so much of their time together.

Anything can happen, but I feel good about our situation.


I am really more interested now in what we do with our second round picks.

I would love Gizzard, Gadzuric, Clancy, Yarborough or Dickau with the 30 and Lenny Cooke with the 44.

 

[Songcycle]

No question Chifanica, with Francis, Mobley and Griffin, Ming is the logical choice and there aren't available big men to trade for him, They will take Ming and keep him. I love Dickau, but with Williams, Crawford and maybe Best, that is serious overkill. Your other choices look to be good NBA players. I am not ready to get into serious second roound speculation yet, but after the predraft Chicago camp, I'll be there.

 

[Johnjo]

no offense to your opinion, but i see caron butler to be as NBA ready as jay williams himself. just think what he could do for us. he has the offense to be that guy to guy that we need that we saw this season jalen couldnt always be, and jc, curry, and ty-c werent ready for. he is instant offense and if we got him our whole 1, 2, and 3 spots could be interchangeable. excluding butler at the point but you get my picture. not to mention he is tenacious on D and knows how to make a stop. he would be our new ron artest without the attitude and unnecassary three pointers. i really hope krause puts him into consideration and that he does well in our workout. i believe it is on the fifteenth so pay attention after that because you will be hearing good things.

 

[Sep]

I think you can't go wrong with Caron Butler. Admittedly, I only saw him during the NCAA tourney, but he was a man amongst boys out there. He's got an NBA body (6'7'', 245 lbs), is athletic, super strong, and best of all, plays great D. Straight up I still prefer Williams, but I wouldn't mind trading down 1 spot with GS, grabbing Butler, and picking up Adonal Foyle and a future 1st (a lock to be in the lottery). We'll have our backup C, and some instant offense off the bench in the form of E-Rob and Fizer, not to mention Hassell's D and 3pter, and Best if we can resign him.

 

[Hollis]

Originally posted by Lizzy
Wouldn't Caron Butler be considered a project?

Caron's the farthest thing from a project you can get in this draft....I (as a Rockets fan) hope we can move down to #3 to snag Butler if the legal issues with Ming aren't solved soon....

 

[Sep]

Originally posted by mduke


Caron's the farthest thing from a project you can get in this draft....I (as a Rockets fan) hope we can move down to #3 to snag Butler if the legal issues with Ming aren't solved soon....

I've heard a little rumor floating around that the Rockets were really impressed by Butler's workout, and would consider taking him #1, especially if there's any uncertainty regarding Yao.
The article I read went so far as to say that the Rockets might not even trade down to get Butler, as they don't want the Bulls to sneak in and get him at #2. (That's exactly the kind of thing Crumbs would do - he'll F up anyone trying to trade around him. Rumor has it that we only drafted Fizer to mess up a Clippers-Orlando trade of Fizer and change for Darius Miles).

 

[Songcycle]

Sep, you are wrong. Kenyon Martin Stromile Swift, Darius Miles and Marcus Fizer were a cut above the rest, not that I am saying all 4 are equal. After Marcus Fizer, there was a tangebile difference in quality and though we had Brand, Krause selected the best player on the board. Miller and Johnson were not considered in the same class. Some mock drafts had Fizer going as high as #2 and he was considered at the time, an NBA ready player and possibly the only go to guy in the draft. There are things to not like about Krause, but he is not about to waste a number 4 pick out of spite. It was a weak draft.

 

[Sep]

I don't know Songcycle. Don't be too sure. I heard that Orlando really wanted Miles at #5, but knew of Krause's interest. The Clippers were in desperate need of a power forward at that time. Every mock draft had Martin, Swift, Fizer going 1, 2, 3. LA and Orlando, figuring that the Bulls were set at power forward and wouldn't take Fizer, had LA pick up Miles at #3. Orlando was to pick up Fizer at #5, and ship him along with the #10 for Miles. The Clippers wanted to use that #10 on Dooling. They ended up getting the #10 anyway practically for free, just for taking Derek Strong's ridiculous salary off the Magic's hand (I think it was Strong - might've been someone else). Now, perhaps Krause just decided to go for the best player on the board, although I think it's equally possible that he was ticked off and didn't like anyone pulling the carpet out from under him.

Either way, after that draft there was a lot of talk of Krause trying to trade Fizer and Crawford for Jermaine O'Neal, and that deal was supposedly close to being done before the Pacers offered Dale Davis.

Obviously, these are all just rumors, and there's no telling how much truth there is to them. But then again, isn't that why we're on a message board in the first place? If we were only sticking to substantiated fact, we'd all be waiting for an official press conference instead of talking about it here...

 

[Songcycle]

Sep, it would seem the Bulls wanted Miles who got snatched by the Clippers who were going to trade him to Orlando for Fizer who they figured the Bulls wouldn't pick. Miller is okay but nothing special and I am not sorry we didn't get him. You are right about Strong and their getting Dooling almost for free to clear cap room. At the time, not with revisionist history and hindsight, who would you have taken. You yourself noted Fizer was considered a top pick and after him there was a major drop in talent.
There was negotiations between Bulls and Portand for O'Neal and when Indiana offered Davis, that deal went down. Otherwise the Bulls might have been able to trade Fizer for O'Neal. Portland wanted Fizer and Crwford and the Bulls said no.
You take top talent in the draft when available, especially at #4, if there is a major drop off in talent after. Fizer was the 5th leading scorer among non starters in the NBA. Sure he has problems, but he is talent and Miller, Johnson and Mihm who went after are nothing special.
At the time, without hindsight, what would you have done?

 

[Sep]

That's a very good question, Songcycle. Though I question Krause's motives in drafting Fizer, he probably was the best player available, and he has made contributions. Going into that draft, I thought we would end up with Chris Mihm at #4 and Courtney Alexander at #7. While Alexander may yet develop into a solid player, I'm happy that we ended up with Crawford. As for Mihm vs. Fizer... I change my mind every week about who I'd rather have. Fizer certainly is a better player, and will probably always be a better player. But I think Mihm might be a better player for us to have. Fizer didn't contribute much and didn't get much quality PT his rookie year, playing behind the rock known as Elton Brand. He did get a lot of quality time this year, and showed as much potential as any of the top picks from 2000. It was pretty clear by the end of the season that he was second fiddle to Chandler, and it's practically two straight years now that we're trying to trade him. His name makes its way into a new trade rumor every week. Meanwhile, our biggest need right now is backup center. Chris Mihm would serve that role.

All that said, it's hard to whine and complain about not drafting a career backup with the #4 pick in the draft. Songcycle, you're right on in calling that a weak draft. If I could do it all over again, I'd have to go back to February, 2000. We traded Toni Kukoc in a 3-way deal, and got back Washington's top 5 protected pick that year, via Golden State. I say we should've delayed the gratification, and taken a 2001 or 2002 pick from Golden State. If you're a GM, you should know by February if a draft is going to be weak. I guess that's my hindsight kicking in, though...

Let it be known that I am not a Krause basher. I think he's made some very intelligent moves, despite being a bit of a nut, with poor interpersonal skills and a serious inferiority complex. Though I still hate to see Elton Brand go, Krause will be the winner in that trade if Chandler becomes as good as we all think he can. The Rose trade was brilliant, especially with the unexpected jettison of Ron Mercer, and Eddy Curry could blossom into the best young center in the game in a few years. His physical tools are that good. I like Krause's attitude of trying to build a championship team, not a competitive team, and his recognition of that fact that you sometimes have to step backward to accomplish that goal.