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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
unless we get someone who can have huge nights we're going to lose the rest of the games this year. I was looking over the stats from our last five wins, and he has carried the team in each one, with the exception of a severely undermanned Suns team post Stephon trade.

Cleveland
30 pts, 1 reb, 5 assists, 1 steal and a block

Washington
42 pts, 4 rebs, 6 assists, 4 steals

NY
28 pts, 6 rebs, 6 assists, 2 steals

NO
20 pts, 5 rebs, 6 assists, 3 steals

I know that he's been inconsistent, but it seems like even if Kirk and other guys play well we lose. From these stats it looks to me like we need Jamal if we're going to get wins. What do other people think about this?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Parabull</b>!
unless we get someone who can have huge nights we're going to lose the rest of the games this year. I was looking over the stats from our last five wins, and he has carried the team in each one, with the exception of a severely undermanned Suns team post Stephon trade.

Cleveland
30 pts, 1 reb, 5 assists, 1 steal and a block

Washington
42 pts, 4 rebs, 6 assists, 4 steals

NY
28 pts, 6 rebs, 6 assists, 2 steals

NO
20 pts, 5 rebs, 6 assists, 3 steals

I know that he's been inconsistent, but it seems like even if Kirk and other guys play well we lose. From these stats it looks to me like we need Jamal if we're going to get wins. What do other people think about this?
Yes those 4 games he deserves props. But there were 7 more games in there! What about the other 7? Maybe another player might not score 30 a night, JC doesn't do that himself. But another player might do the things JC might not be and shoot better than 39%. We could possibly win those other 7 games! So, I knew what you were getting at, but Jamal played 11 games in that stretch. Not 4.

I would love the fact JC could score and play defense the way we want him to, but he isn't doing it night in and night out.

We are losing at a big clip anyway. We will not lose the rest of our games. Not every one of them
 

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Originally posted by <b>Parabull</b>!
unless we get someone who can have huge nights we're going to lose the rest of the games this year. I was looking over the stats from our last five wins, and he has carried the team in each one, with the exception of a severely undermanned Suns team post Stephon trade.

Cleveland
30 pts, 1 reb, 5 assists, 1 steal and a block

Washington
42 pts, 4 rebs, 6 assists, 4 steals

NY
28 pts, 6 rebs, 6 assists, 2 steals

NO
20 pts, 5 rebs, 6 assists, 3 steals

I know that he's been inconsistent, but it seems like even if Kirk and other guys play well we lose. From these stats it looks to me like we need Jamal if we're going to get wins. What do other people think about this?
We're 5-11 in our last 16 games, including those 5 wins. It would be nice to have a chance in the other 11 games.

Two of those wins came: against NY without their starting backcourt and against Phoenix the day they traded Marbury and didn't have the knicks players to suit up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Re: If we do trade Jamal...

Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!


Yes those 4 games he deserves props. But there were 7 more games in there! What about the other 7? Maybe another player might not score 30 a night, JC doesn't do that himself. But another player might do the things JC might not be and shoot better than 39%. We could possibly win those other 7 games! So, I knew what you were getting at, but Jamal played 11 games in that stretch. Not 4.

I would love the fact JC could score and play defense the way we want him to, but he isn't doing it night in and night out.

We are losing at a big clip anyway. We will not lose the rest of our games. Not every one of them
I understand this - he is really inconsistent. I agree. But we lose those games anyways, with or without Jamal. I'm saying that the games we did win we won because of Jamal. The other players are great, I love them, but they still lose - even if they play hard - when Jamal isn't on the floor. So if we didn't get a player who can be that kind of difference maker - even if they're inconsistent- then it's hard to see us winning games. That's all I was trying to say.
 

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we've all seen this trade before, but

Jamal + Fizer + ERob + 1st rounder (top 4 protected)

for

Eddie Jones and Caron Butler


The kicker in this trade is our top-4 protected draft pick. With the Heat headed for the lottery yet again, having TWO lottery picks is great flexibility and increases the chance of at least getting one star, especially in this year's very decent draft. They can draft a young high schooler AND a known college star.

Jamal gives them a real, live point guard that they can extend more than anyone else (if he's worth it) and not destroy the salary cap, since ERob comes off in a year and Fizer walks. It's basically replacing Eddie Jones' salary with Craw's and grabbing a few draft picks along the way.

I think the Heat would have to look at this trade.

The Bulls, of course, get their defensive minded small forward and a very decent talent in EJ who has somewhat slowed the quickness of his aging. It IS a big contract to be stuck with for a while, but I'm willing to take it. We turn ERob's waste of space into a valuable player, and if we're forced to trade Crawford....

Basically, it's cheaper this way in a few years. And we get Caron, which is as good an NBA-SF we can hope for in the draft, unless we can grab Deng and even that's not a sure thing. Butler is a younger, more athletic version of Posey and Shane Battier.

And Jones provides some sorely needed range and is an actual SG. If anything, I'd say Crawford, at his best, could hope to be the player that EJ was about three years ago. His steal numbers are down now, and he's in a bit of a shooting funk, but he's still very serviceable. If you give the guy an open three, he's more likely to hit it than Craw is these days.

I'm not for this trade, because I think Crawford has a brighter future and that we can land a SF somehow (I'm trying to trust Pax with that). But if we're forced to trade him (as in, Art Tellem makes it openly known that he requires a max extension), this is the trade I'd want.
 

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I would rather not have Caron Butler included and keep our pick. Make it JC,ERob,Fizer for EJ,Rasual Butler. Then sign Hedo, and draft a SG as an eventual replacement for Jones. Monya,Iguodala,whomever.


Hinrich,Pippen
Jones,Iguodala
Turkoglu,Dupree
Chandler,JYD
Curry,Davis
 

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Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
I would rather not have Caron Butler included and keep our pick. Make it JC,ERob,Fizer for EJ,Rasual Butler. Then sign Hedo, and draft a SG as an eventual replacement for Jones. Monya,Iguodala,whomever.


Hinrich,Pippen
Jones,Iguodala
Turkoglu,Dupree
Chandler,JYD
Curry,Davis
We get raped in that trade. I agree with you about Caron Butler, that kid isn't the same after his injury and by all accounts is likely to have chronic knee problems. For some reason I don't understand people still want to trade for him. Still, I can't see dealing JC& Fizer for Eddie Jones. Thats a huge overpayment IMO. Rasual Butler isn't anything to get all warm and fuzzy about. I do like the idea of signing Turkoglu, I think he is only some starter minutes away from being a solid NBA player. You know who I want in Miami? Odom. I wish we could trade Davis/Gill/ and our pick for Odom. Then we could have a lineup of:

Hinrich
JC
Odom
Chandler
Curry

with

Williams
Fizer

coming off the bench.
 

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Re: we've all seen this trade before, but

Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
Jamal + Fizer + ERob + 1st rounder (top 4 protected)

for

Eddie Jones and Caron Butler


The kicker in this trade is our top-4 protected draft pick. With the Heat headed for the lottery yet again, having TWO lottery picks is great flexibility and increases the chance of at least getting one star, especially in this year's very decent draft. They can draft a young high schooler AND a known college star.

Jamal gives them a real, live point guard that they can extend more than anyone else (if he's worth it) and not destroy the salary cap, since ERob comes off in a year and Fizer walks. It's basically replacing Eddie Jones' salary with Craw's and grabbing a few draft picks along the way.

I think the Heat would have to look at this trade.

The Bulls, of course, get their defensive minded small forward and a very decent talent in EJ who has somewhat slowed the quickness of his aging. It IS a big contract to be stuck with for a while, but I'm willing to take it. We turn ERob's waste of space into a valuable player, and if we're forced to trade Crawford....

Basically, it's cheaper this way in a few years. And we get Caron, which is as good an NBA-SF we can hope for in the draft, unless we can grab Deng and even that's not a sure thing. Butler is a younger, more athletic version of Posey and Shane Battier.

And Jones provides some sorely needed range and is an actual SG. If anything, I'd say Crawford, at his best, could hope to be the player that EJ was about three years ago. His steal numbers are down now, and he's in a bit of a shooting funk, but he's still very serviceable. If you give the guy an open three, he's more likely to hit it than Craw is these days.

I'm not for this trade, because I think Crawford has a brighter future and that we can land a SF somehow (I'm trying to trust Pax with that). But if we're forced to trade him (as in, Art Tellem makes it openly known that he requires a max extension), this is the trade I'd want.
U can say top 3 protected,it sounds better for us,since Bobcats will get 4.
 
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