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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It got intense. I don't have time to recreate the whole conversation, but Carmen and Van Lier let loose with some obviously very pent up frustrations with the organization.

They said that the feeling is that the situation is close to hopeless right now, that theres no obvious way out of the problems that exist and that Skiles and Pax are just trying to hold things togather hoping for something to happen at the deadline, but realistically looking toward the off-season.

They went on to say that it's the previous GM's fault; that Krause tried to be an innovator, but that he never should have brought 3 high schoolers (Jamal only being 17 games removed from HS) in and expect them to learn to star and lead a team up and out of a losing situation. They should have chosen one, incubated him around veteran stars, and gone on building in the traditional sense. More than that, regardless of who broke things up, it was the owner and GM's job to keep it togather or meaningly do some valuable salvage work at it's end.

Nothing we havn't heard before. Then it got interesting. They praised Tyson briefly for his fire and desire, then dumped a boatload of criticism on him because of the way he entered the organization. They recognized that he was injured, but said that durability is a risk you take when you take a youth from high school who has dominated mainly players smaller and weaker than him.

They said it was a mistake to trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler--that it should never have happened--that the stats prove it, and the injuries back it up. Then VL said "BJ was right, he was absolutely right." Carmen followed up that by saying "Obviously there are some things that we have to keep in house, but we'll suffice to say: BJ was against the trade". He was trying to shut VL up and change the subject. But VL cut him off "He erupted that night. He turned into a fireball. He.went off when Jerry told his staff about the trade. He didn't calm down for several days. The whole organization was upset. BJ felt, and the feeling in the organization then was that Krause was biding for time, and in light of things, they were absolutely right." That said, Carmen then went on to join him, instead of holding back anymore.

My writing isn't properly expressing what went on. It was very electric and very raw. They cut the organization, Krause---the whole thing to shreds. I'd be surprised if they didn't spend some time in the producers office afterward...

EDIT:

Callers called in to try to argue against their stand, with a lot of the pro JET/C arguments we see on the board. They weren't having it. They said all three would be difference makers in the NBA one day, but it was doubtful that they'd be togather when it happened.
 

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Why oh why did I go to the gym instead of listening to that?
 

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Excellent post GB, thanks. I wonder looking back what should have we done at that 2001 Draft. We had JC,Brand,Miller,Artest,Mercer and Fizer. What should we have done with that #4 pick?
 

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Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
Excellent post GB, thanks. I wonder looking back what should have we done at that 2001 Draft. We had JC,Brand,Miller,Artest,Mercer and Fizer. What should we have done with that #4 pick?
Easy - Jason Richardson. He went #7.

Deal with Mercers contract and have Fizer be the 6th man.

I'm gonna check and see if Norm and Carmen are still listed as the Bulls post-game guys.
 

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Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
It got intense. I don't have time to recreate the whole conversation, but Carmen and Van Lier let loose with some obviously very pent up frustrations with the organization.

They said that the feeling is that the situation is close to hopeless right now, that theres no obvious way out of the problems that exist and that Skiles and Pax are just trying to hold things togather hoping for something to happen at the deadline, but realistically looking toward the off-season.

They went on to say that it's the previous GM's fault; that Krause tried to be an innovator, but that he never should have brought 3 high schoolers (Jamal only being 17 games removed from HS) in and expect them to learn to star and lead a team up and out of a losing situation. They should have chosen one, incubated him around veteran stars, and gone on building in the traditional sense. More than that, regardless of who broke things up, it was the owner and GM's job to keep it togather or meaningly do some valuable salvage work at it's end.

Nothing we havn't heard before. Then it got interesting. They praised Tyson briefly for his fire and desire, then dumped a boatload of criticism on him because of the way he entered the organization. They recognized that he was injured, but said that durability is a risk you take when you take a youth from high school who has dominated mainly players smaller and weaker than him.

They said it was a mistake to trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler--that it should never have happened--that the stats prove it, and the injuries back it up. Then VL said "BJ was right, he was absolutely right." Carmen followed up that by saying "Obviously there are some things that we have to keep in house, but we'll suffice to say: BJ was against the trade". He was trying to shut VL up and change the subject. But VL cut him off "He erupted that night. He turned into a fireball. He.went off when Jerry told his staff about the trade. He didn't calm down for several days. The whole organization was upset. BJ felt, and the feeling in the organization then was that Krause was biding for time, and in light of things, they were absolutely right." That said, Carmen then went on to join him, instead of holding back anymore.

My writing isn't properly expressing what went on. It was very electric and very raw. They cut the organization, Krause---the whole thing to shreds. I'd be surprised if they didn't spend some time in the producers office afterward...

EDIT:

Callers called in to try to argue against their stand, with a lot of the pro JET/C arguments we see on the board. They weren't having it. They said all three would be difference makers in the NBA one day, but it was doubtful that they'd be togather when it happened.
interesting. It should be noted that BJ and Myers were also rumored to be ticked off with the pick of Kirk over Pietrus last year as well. Looks like the baby face assanin has a bit of a temper
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
They said all three would be difference makers in the NBA one day, but it was doubtful that they'd be togather when it happened.
Was it Dallas that had Mash, Kidd and Jim Jackson togather?
 

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Wow, that must have been intesnse.

Is it safe to say Norm may have just killed the chances of our petition getting his jersey retired?! :eek: Nooooooo!!!
 

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I love Carmen Defalco. I could just imagine him trying to calm Van Lier down. VL gets away with the most cursing that I've ever heard on radio. I don't know if I'd let my kids listen to that cat.

Very very interesting about the Brand-Chandler trade. Krause gave us his spin control that 'he couldn't play alongside Eddy' or that 'maybe he wouldn't resign w/ the Bulls' blah blah blah. Alas, the truth comes out. He was buying time for himself. He handed over the keys to the franchise to essentially 3 high schoolers.
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
I love Carmen Defalco. I could just imagine him trying to calm Van Lier down. VL gets away with the most cursing that I've ever heard on radio. I don't know if I'd let my kids listen to that cat.

Very very interesting about the Brand-Chandler trade. Krause gave us his spin control that 'he couldn't play alongside Eddy' or that 'maybe he wouldn't resign w/ the Bulls' blah blah blah. Alas, the truth comes out. He was buying time for himself. He handed over the keys to the franchise to essentially 3 high schoolers.

Dave this is so true. The company line was brand and Curry couldnt play together. i agree with that. However I dont agree that Chandler and curry could play together. They really struggle when playing together
 

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$64,000 question now is what does Paxson do to solve this problem we have, do he choose one of the 3 C's to keep or does he get rid of all of them? You can bet the bank next season we will not have all 3.
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
I love Carmen Defalco. I could just imagine him trying to calm Van Lier down
Carmen should be the new color man for the Bulls when they Red retires. (replace both when Red retired). I don't know - maybe he can do the play by play and someone else can be the color guy. Regardless C d F should be announcing for the Bulls.

Carmen is the only guy in all of Chicago sports radio that doesn't obnoxiously cut off the callers. He just lets people finish their thought, no matter how incoherent they sometimes are, and comments on it.

Norm can't be a commentator b/c he'd talk about back in the day too much. And he'd get too worked up.
 

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I listened to that whole thing too, GB.

It seems on the post game show on the radio, Norm and Carmen can criticize Bulls management and the players much more than they can on the TV.

Last night both of those guys said a lot of truthful things and it was good listening to them.
 

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Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
$64,000 question now is what does Paxson do to solve this problem we have, do he choose one of the 3 C's to keep or does he get rid of all of them? You can bet the bank next season we will not have all 3.
Unfortunately, the only way I see out is the draft. It's not very bright for us Bulls fans. Hinrich was a start, I don't think it's unreasonable to think one of the three C's couldn't pan out... alas, more losing, and the light at the end of the tunnel is a train speeding towards us.

On a cheerful note: I 'm not the brightest man. TB1, I've been staring at your handle all morning thinking to myself "thats a cheerful picture, why did he choose it?" All the sudden it clicks... its Bull's cool-aid... get it kids. Anyways, I was probably the only one who was clueless.
 

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Imo getting the 3c's at the same time was not the problem .It was Jk getting greedy after he got them that set us back .

He shouldve dealt the #2 pick for a established veteran player between the ages of 23-26 at the time .But instead he added more youth.We couldve easily kept Travis Best and tried to move the pick .Could you imagine Maggette,Odom,Bonzi,Jamison,or some other young talent leading the way with Rose,Marshall,Best as stabilizing influences while the 3c's are playing, developing while winning .

But.....Jk got greedy and stuck his hand into the draft pot one too many times .This is by no means a knock on jwill or his play just a look back at the true turning point in this franchise.
 

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I agree.

The funny thing is that Krause was not just trying to build around 3 HS kids but also wanted:

* a Lottery PF (Fizer) to develop into a 6th man
* his project bigman (Bags) to develop into a backup
* his second rounders (Hassel and Mason) to develop into solid backup guards

etc.

And then throw JWill on top of it.

I said it then and I say it now. This was a recipe for disaster.
 

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I wished I listened to the postgame

But, it sounds as thought Norm and Carmen were really upset. Wouldn't be surprised if they dropped a few f-bombs. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
This was a recipe for disaster.
I'd say the cake came out just the way the recipe said it would.

It's too late for belly aching, but why didn't we move some of those picks for young vets?

Or old vets? I bet Phoenix would have given up Marbury for the rights to JWill.

Jwill, Marion and Amare---wow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: I wished I listened to the postgame

Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
But, it sounds as thought Norm and Carmen were really upset. Wouldn't be surprised if they dropped a few f-bombs. :eek:
DeFalco is too smooth.

But you could tell VanLier was hitting the cough button. ;)
 

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Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!


I'd say the cake came out just the way the recipe said it would.

It's too late for belly aching, but why didn't we move some of those picks for young vets?

Or old vets? I bet Phoenix would have given up Marbury for the rights to JWill.

Jwill, Marion and Amare---wow.
I was dying for a #2 pick for Odom and the #7. That would have cleared up our SF problem.
 
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