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Discussion Starter #1
Doc Rivers has started inferior defenders over his defensive stoppers for the entire season. Marcus Banks and Tony Allen have been benched most of the seasons in favor of Gary Payton, and at times Pierce (when his is forcing up bad shots and not giving a damn about defense). Banks and Allen have shown that they are top 15 defenders in the league. Banks is one of the best on-ball defenders and usually gets strips the opposing point guard of the ball two or three times a game (when he is getting the minutes he deserves). Allen, who was coached by defensive guru Eddie Sutton at OSU, is one of the best help defenders (aside from Andrei Kirilenko, Tayshaun Prince, etc) in the league. He combines his athleticism with his overall feel for the defensive game making him a nightmare for opposing shooting guards. When Gary Payton plays major minutes, it kills these guys confidence and makes our defense a liability (excuse me from using the same word from the "Pierce is..." thread). Chauncey Billups burned him in the finals last year and Payton has declined defensively since. I say, we start Banks and give Payton 20 minutes.
 

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I say its time to bench and save him for the playoffs, it would be a good time for West and Banks to play. Cause every team will need a vet point guard (also the person that controls the offense) in the playoffs
 

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It also makes no sense to risk the injury! he is 13 years pro he is old for the NBA and we should give him a break, also they have played him all year so they should play Banks and West so when Payton subs out in the playoffs they will be used to playing with West and Banks
 

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Where's Jim Mora when you need him?

I find it humorous that you all think the playoffs are a given.

Look at the Celtics schedule and tell me when you think they will next win a game.

As for this argument, I will side with Lanteri and say that messing with the rotation at this point in the season would be counterproductive. I think you could probably ratchet up Banks's minutes off the bench a tad, though.

As for next year, I say hand it over to Marcus, provided he improves in the offseason.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My post had no reference to the playoffs. I mean, Payton should be benched for the regular season and the playoffs (assuming we make it there). Payton's only quality that is superior to Banks is "leadership" and "experience", which are overrated in my book, especially considering we have Antoine to make up for it.
 

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Premier said:
My post had no reference to the playoffs. I mean, Payton should be benched for the regular season and the playoffs (assuming we make it there). Payton's only quality that is superior to Banks is "leadership" and "experience", which are overrated in my book, especially considering we have Antoine to make up for it.
Walker? Now there's a laugher. Sure he may be a team leader, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having Walker as our team's leader in the playoffs. Gary Payton has much more experience and is a better leader than Walker. I could care less about Antoine. Veteran leadership is an assest to any team. And you are absolutely out of your mind if you think Payton's only superior quality over Banks is experience and leadership. Payton is a way better passers than Banks. Payton's court vision and awareness is way superior to Banks. The only thing Banks has on Payton is speed and to an extent defense. However, if you think BAnks should start in the playoffs, then you have completely lost your mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Lanteri said:
Walker? Now there's a laugher. Sure he may be a team leader, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having Walker as our team's leader in the playoffs.
Why? He has done it before (leading us to the Eastern Conference Finals once)

Gary Payton has much more experience and is a better leader than Walker. I could care less about Antoine. Veteran leadership is an assest to any team.
Gary Payton has been with this team the whole year. Has he ever riled up the players, specifically Pierce, like what Antoine did in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Semis against New Jersey three years ago? I doubt that Payton is a better leader than Antoine. He might have more experience, but that doesn't make him an overall better assest to the team.

And you are absolutely out of your mind if you think Payton's only superior quality over Banks is experience and leadership. Payton is a way better passers than Banks. Payton's court vision and awareness is way superior to Banks. The only thing Banks has on Payton is speed and to an extent defense. However, if you think Banks should start in the playoffs, then you have completely lost your mind.
Because Banks has the ability to blow by defenders en route to a layup, the opposing point guard cannot guard him one-dimensionally. He is more of a threat and because of this he is a better passer because he draws one or two extra defenders, while driving. He can dish off the drive. Also, if Banks had the same amount of minutes and touches as Payton, statistics would reflect his ability to pass. Against the 76ers, whenever Banks was in the game, Ricky Davis would play point guard. Is that Marcus' fault of Doc Rivers' fault? The better player of the two should get the most minutes in the playoffs. In my opinion, Banks is the better player and can cause much more problems for the opposing team than Payton.
 

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I would never bench Payton at this point of the season, but I'm all in favor of decreasing his minutes.

Marcus Banks has shown that he can defend anyone. He can, and more importantly will, strip the ball from anyone. It doesn't matter if the guy just came into the league, has been in the league for a long time, or his name is Allen Iverson. Banks will be on top of that guy.

Not only does Banks play "quick hand" defense, he can also jump with the best of him. When you see a 6'2 guy jump up and block a 7 feet guy while the guy was TRYING TO DUNK, you know he's a good defender. When Allen Iverson can't escape him, then who can?

Banks has also shown that he can set up his teamates better than anyone else. Payton does have better court vision than Marcus and he'll find the open teamate instead of looking for a wide open 3, but that is because he can't even shoot the 3 anymore. And maybe the most important thing that Banks will do is take it to the hoop and either get fouled or kill the whole defense.

Payton is important to this club, but he should not be playing 35+ minutes when a) he doesn't want to, b) he can't, c) we need to focus on the future.

Also, Payton has always been more talk than leadership. He's the kind of guy who'll level your head, but he's not a motivator. Something Doc and Toine do.


And one more small thing. What's up with this "Tony Allen is a great defender?" Personally (maybe I'm blind) I haven't see anything out of him to make him even "good" not to mention average. Sure he gets steals, but he can't stay out of foul trouble and he always gets caught in the pick.
 

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aquaitious said:
And one more small thing. What's up with this "Tony Allen is a great defender?" Personally (maybe I'm blind) I haven't see anything out of him to make him even "good" not to mention average. Sure he gets steals, but he can't stay out of foul trouble and he always gets caught in the pick.
Sersiously. I havent seen anything from TA to make me think he's a great defender. Honestly Ricky Davis seems to play better on the ball defense than Allen does. Ricky could be a really good defender if he put his heart and desire into it, like he does on offense.
 

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GP said if he does not play, his back will tighten up and we wont be able to use him in the playoffs. I want him I don't know about you. I say he sticks it out with the whole crew.
 

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WestSydeBalla said:
GP said if he does not play, his back will tighten up and we wont be able to use him in the playoffs. I want him I don't know about you. I say he sticks it out with the whole crew.
That's the number one reason why you can't bench the guy completely. Give him 25 minutes a night. Give Marcus Banks 23 minutes a night. Give Delonte West a lot of practice time and nothing more. Payton is a good player still and can help this team win games now. However, Banks is also a good player who can help this team win games now and in the future. Give the kid a chance, he will be an all-star.
 

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agoo101284 said:
That's the number one reason why you can't bench the guy completely. Give him 25 minutes a night. Give Marcus Banks 23 minutes a night. Give Delonte West a lot of practice time and nothing more. Payton is a good player still and can help this team win games now. However, Banks is also a good player who can help this team win games now and in the future. Give the kid a chance, he will be an all-star.

So it's true, once you quit being a mod you get smarter. :D

Just kidding, add me to the Reed club.
 
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