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Beware of Elbows
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Everyone says that anyone can win with the players that Jackson has had. Well that's total [edit]. If you think that, you need to rethink it, fast. Doug Collins couldn't win with MJ and Pip in Chicago. Del Harris and Kurt Rambis couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe in LA. Phil Jackson is great at blending stars. The Lakers would not have won one title if it weren't for PJ. And Kobe would probably be playing for a washed out team, like the Heat.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

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Yes he is great coach manage, to win a ring with the most dominant player and a talented Guard who is a top 5 player in the league.

Will he get his 10th championship?
 

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Mr. X said:
Everyone says that anyone can win with the players that Jackson has had. Well that's total bulls*hit. If you think that, you need to rethink it, fast. Doug Collins couldn't win with MJ and Pip in Chicago. Del Harris and Kurt Rambis couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe in LA. Phil Jackson is great at blending stars. The Lakers would not have won one title if it weren't for PJ. And Kobe would probably be playing for a washed out team, like the Heat.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
This thread is a total bait thread especially with your last remark. If goes any further I will close this thread
 

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MiamiHeat03 said:
Yes he is great coach manage, to win a ring with the most dominant player and a talented Guard who is a top 5 player in the league.

Will he get his 10th championship?
If Phil Jackson comes back to coach, he will win another championship.
 

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Yep, Phil was probably the 3rd most important reason the Lakers won those titles, behind Shaq and Jerry West. :)



haha j/k guys, settle down
 

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Damian Necronamous said:
Everyone says that anyone can win with the players that Jackson has had. Well that's total bulls*hit. If you think that, you need to rethink it, fast. Doug Collins couldn't win with MJ and Pip in Chicago. Del Harris and Kurt Rambis couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe in LA. Phil Jackson is great at blending stars. The Lakers would not have won one title if it weren't for PJ. And Kobe would probably be playing for a washed out team, like the Heat.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I don't know if I'm actually confirming you, but Del Harris and Doug Collins had players that were still developing into their primes at the point. Maybe Shaq was already in his prime, but the other 3 definitely weren't.
 

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IV said:
If Phil Jackson comes back to coach, he will win another championship.
Very bold words, IV. What if Phil defies all logic and decides to coach one of the worst teams in the league, like The Atlanta Hawks? Do you think he will win a championship with that team?

Phil is a great coach and I'd have to say one of the greatest of all time, but some people may dismiss him because he never took a team that started from the bottom and made them into championship contenders. On the other hand, Phil is smart enough to know it takes more time to build a team, than to take helm on a team that has talent already.

That's why I don't think Phil will coach The Lakers unless he has full control of all basketball decisions and be the highest paid coach ever. That means bye-bye Mitch and no more of Buss butting in. I don't know if Kobe can handle that, with all their previous past experiences. But Kobe is also learning that life without Phil (and Shaq) is not all that it's cracked up to be, so Kobe may have a different look on things.

We'll all just have to wait until the season is over to see if Phil will be back or not.
 

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MiamiHeat03 said:
Yes he is great coach manage, to win a ring with the most dominant player and a talented Guard who is a top 5 player in the league.

Will he get his 10th championship?
I'm pretty sure he will and I personally hope he will. He deserves it. :yes:

GO PHILL!!!!!!
 

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tatahbenitez said:
Very bold words, IV. What if Phil defies all logic and decides to coach one of the worst teams in the league, like The Atlanta Hawks? Do you think he will win a championship with that team?
Now that's a strong 'what if.' I'm 99,9% sure that will never happen. If Phil comes back to coach, he will find a team with the potential to win a title.

Phil is a great coach and I'd have to say one of the greatest of all time, but some people may dismiss him because he never took a team that started from the bottom and made them into championship contenders. On the other hand, Phil is smart enough to know it takes more time to build a team, than to take helm on a team that has talent already.
Most fans don't know Phil Jackson's history. It's true, he never coached a team in the NBA without a dou of at least two great players, but he has taken a team and started from the bottom and worked toward a title. When Phil coached in the CBA (either CBA or puerto rican league). He took a job coaching a team that had the best player in the league. Phil found that this player was uncoachable because he wouldn't follow the team concept, so he urged management to trade him. Everyone thought Phil was crazy until he took that team minus the best player in the league and won the championship. Phil has been a success on every level of basketball.

That's why I don't think Phil will coach The Lakers unless he has full control of all basketball decisions and be the highest paid coach ever. That means bye-bye Mitch and no more of Buss butting in. I don't know if Kobe can handle that, with all their previous past experiences. But Kobe is also learning that life without Phil (and Shaq) is not all that it's cracked up to be, so Kobe may have a different look on things.
I agree, Kobe would love to have Phil back. I honestly don't think Phil was the problem for Kobe, it was Shaq... specifically Phil's choice to use Shaq in the offense where Kobe wanted to be. But that's all water under the bridge now, if Phil comes back and there's no Shaq, Kobe will get what he wants, and I expect LA to turn things around.

We'll all just have to wait until the season is over to see if Phil will be back or not.
Yes, and it will be a long time coming.
 

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IV said:
I agree, Kobe would love to have Phil back. I honestly don't think Phil was the problem for Kobe, it was Shaq... specifically Phil's choice to use Shaq in the offense where Kobe wanted to be. But that's all water under the bridge now, if Phil comes back and there's no Shaq, Kobe will get what he wants, and I expect LA to turn things around.
This is where you and I differ. I think Kobe and Phil had more than their publicized run-ins and though Phil and Shaq also differed, they still worked well together.

Phils latest book showed that both Kobe and Shaq were to blame for the disharmony with The Laker team, but to me Kobe seemed to be more to blame than Shaq. And yes, I know Phil said that he is partly to blame for focusing more on Kobe's mistakes/faults, but Phil probably thought Kobe would be "adult enough" to take the critisizm. He knew Shaq was a big kid at heart and was trying to use that to his advantage, that's probably why Phil didn't push Shaq like he did with Kobe. Phil was right about Shaq, but was wrong about Kobe. :yes:

Kobe also thought the triangle was holding down his talent and that's why he disdained it and Phil for using it for Shaq instead of him. I think Phil knew what he was doing and if Shaq was showing signs of not handling being the main man, Phil would have changed the triangle to fit Kobe's needs. But Kobe was too restless and wanted to be the man, instead of gradually moving into the role of top gun. Now, Kobe has been literally thrown to the lions. Individually speaking, Kobe has been doing well considering the cirumstances, but the circumstances were caused by Kobe and deserves the blame/adulation The Lakers will be getting. :curse:

This is where I blame Kobe for what has happened to the Lakers. Management also had a hand in the release of Phil and Shaq, but Kobe never stood up for either of them (though I can understand why not Shaq, but Phil??? :confused: )
 

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tatahbenitez said:
This is where you and I differ. I think Kobe and Phil had more than their publicized run-ins and though Phil and Shaq also differed, they still worked well together.

Phils latest book showed that both Kobe and Shaq were to blame for the disharmony with The Laker team, but to me Kobe seemed to be more to blame than Shaq. And yes, I know Phil said that he is partly to blame for focusing more on Kobe's mistakes/faults, but Phil probably thought Kobe would be "adult enough" to take the critisizm. He knew Shaq was a big kid at heart and was trying to use that to his advantage, that's probably why Phil didn't push Shaq like he did with Kobe. Phil was right about Shaq, but was wrong about Kobe. :yes:

Kobe also thought the triangle was holding down his talent and that's why he disdained it and Phil for using it for Shaq instead of him. I think Phil knew what he was doing and if Shaq was showing signs of not handling being the main man, Phil would have changed the triangle to fit Kobe's needs. But Kobe was too restless and wanted to be the man, instead of gradually moving into the role of top gun. Now, Kobe has been literally thrown to the lions. Individually speaking, Kobe has been doing well considering the cirumstances, but the circumstances were caused by Kobe and deserves the blame/adulation The Lakers will be getting. :curse:

This is where I blame Kobe for what has happened to the Lakers. Management also had a hand in the release of Phil and Shaq, but Kobe never stood up for either of them (though I can understand why not Shaq, but Phil??? :confused: )
That is where we differ. All parties involved could have shown more selflessness. Phil could have not demanded more money and could have not requested Kobe not be resigned for him to say. Shaq could of done the same, his contract demands were outrageous. Kobe could have fought for Phil and Shaq and been a little more patient. I don't blame one more than the others because they all were wrong, and a part of my compassion for Kobe being left to feel the burden of everyones fault sympathized with him because he did it Phil's way, and played second fiddle to Shaq for many years. Like you said, Kobe could have slowly worked his way into the head role of the team, but I don't think that was something Shaq was willing to do for Kobe. IMO, the time had come. And more so, Shaq shows regret by saying he wont make the same mistakes in Miami, he talks about how it's Wade's team, etc. Imagine if he could have humbled himself that way for Kobe? Alot of eaches fault seemed to stem from other fault and it just keep building itself until it was a complex tower of confusion. I guess things were destined to fall apart in LA, who knows...
:whoknows:
 

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Phil is a top ten NBA coach ever, but he does deserve a little bit less credit. What he did was get the two best players of the particular eras -- Jordan and O'Neal -- to play a certain way. Jordan and O'Neal, though, deserve 95% of the credit. If Phil Jackson had never came into their lives, they still would have won titles.
 

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djtoneblaze said:
Phil is a top ten NBA coach ever, but he does deserve a little bit less credit. What he did was get the two best players of the particular eras -- Jordan and O'Neal -- to play a certain way. Jordan and O'Neal, though, deserve 95% of the credit. If Phil Jackson had never came into their lives, they still would have won titles.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard about Phil Jackson. Honestly, it is.
 

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IV said:
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard about Phil Jackson. Honestly, it is.
What part is ridiculous? I acknowledged his greatness, I just said O'Neal and Jordan would have won titles eventually without him. Your response is ridiculous, clown.
 

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Damian Necronamous said:
Everyone says that anyone can win with the players that Jackson has had. Well that's total bulls*hit. If you think that, you need to rethink it, fast. Doug Collins couldn't win with MJ and Pip in Chicago. Del Harris and Kurt Rambis couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe in LA. Phil Jackson is great at blending stars. The Lakers would not have won one title if it weren't for PJ. And Kobe would probably be playing for a washed out team, like the Heat.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Right Team, Wrong Player
 

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:laugh:

You credited Phil Jackson to at most 5% of the success he's had with Mike and Shaq.... and you call that acknowledging his greatness.


No my friend, u'r da :clown:

:laugh:
 

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IV said:
I don't blame one more than the others because they all were wrong, and a part of my compassion for Kobe being left to feel the burden of everyones fault sympathized with him because he did it Phil's way, and played second fiddle to Shaq for many years. Like you said, Kobe could have slowly worked his way into the head role of the team, but I don't think that was something Shaq was willing to do for Kobe.
I don't feel any compassion with Kobe because he did not want to play second fiddle. I know Kobe is a great player and if he followed the ways of Phil could have surpassed Jordan, but Kobe never wanted to play second fiddle. You could tell from the way he plays now and during the latter part of the Shaq-Kobe duo. And I do think Shaq would have stepped down as #1 option, even Kareem did it to give Magic his chance, and Phil would have also known when Shaq was ready, even if Shaq wouldn't admit it. Kobe was just a a brash, reckless, young, talented player who didn't listen to Phil, wouldn't talk to Shaq or other teammates, and had Jerry Buss drooling all over him.

Now, Kobe is in his first year as "go to" guy and is now realizing that winning is more than just him being MJ.
 
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