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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking into the future of this franchise does anyone think that crawford will be satisfied being a backup to williams at PG and maybe hassell at SG as long as we are a winning team( competing for a title)-sort of the bobby jackson role in sac town- i would think he should be but wonder if he really would like that or would rather be a starting point somewhere- he is saying all the right things now but i wonder will that last
 

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I think with Williams being named the starter, Crawford (and his agent) will rightfully be ready to cut their losses and be moved to another team. I would expect that Crawford is moved, perhaps in a package with Fizer, by the trade deadline. I know this has been a very frustrating situation for Crawford. It seems to me that Crawford at least deserved the opportunity to start the first 10 games of the season or so and show what he can bring in the regular season. Annointing Williams as the starter sends a clear message to Jamal. He has no other choice but to quietly request to be moved IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree completely Ace it is essential to the teams success for this to be done but of course the question is what does a crawford/fizer combo bring in return by the deadline mason will be back and along with brunson we should not need another PG so i guess that means a backup C of some sort or a perimeter shooter
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
I think with Williams being named the starter, Crawford (and his agent) will rightfully be ready to cut their losses and be moved to another team. I would expect that Crawford is moved, perhaps in a package with Fizer, by the trade deadline. I know this has been a very frustrating situation for Crawford. It seems to me that Crawford at least deserved the opportunity to start the first 10 games of the season or so and show what he can bring in the regular season. Annointing Williams as the starter sends a clear message to Jamal. He has no other choice but to quietly request to be moved IMO.
Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with your last statement. He can also take the floor and play the best basketball of his life, fully committed to proving that his coach made a mistake. If he pouts he'll only damage the way he's perceived league-wide. And that, more than anything else he does, may be what dooms him to the Bulls bench for a long time. Remember what Krause said a few weeks ago: But Krause said Thursday he doesn't expect Crawford to be a problem, and besides, he doesn't always trade players who are unhappy and want to leave. "Charles Oakley wanted to be traded last year,'' Krause said. "But Oak didn't get traded, did he?

Hopefully Jamal is getting some good advice from his agent and will come out Wednesday and play like an all-star.
 

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But Krause said Thursday he doesn't expect Crawford to be a problem, and besides, he doesn't always trade players who are unhappy and want to leave. "Charles Oakley wanted to be traded last year,'' Krause said. "But Oak didn't get traded, did he?
Personally, I hope that Crawford this year is nothing like Oak last year.

No, he didn't get traded, Jerry, but he wasn't exactly much of a help either, was he?
 

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Oak was in the last year of a hefty contract. Krause could afford to sit him at the end of the bench with the knowledge that he would be gone at the end of the season. He is not going to be so lucky with Crawford, who is under contract for next season. If Crawford were to split the team, Krause would have to mvoe him. I do not know what was said to Crawford privately but I know Krause pubicly said that the job was Crawford's to lose. If that was the case, then I don't think JWill has done enough right now to take it. What I personally believe is that JWill should get the start because he was the second pick and will in the end be a better player than Crawford, but then I didn't set the table, Krause did. The end does not justify the means.
 

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Craw in a catch-22

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls_story.asp?intID=3755817

After Cartwright revealed the starting lineup to the team, he pulled Crawford into his office for a private session.

"He thought I did really well," Crawford said. "[Cartwright] said the next step with me is to be a leader out there. He said all the physical things I can do. He wants me to get stronger, of course. He said I'm going to play every game and I'm going to play a lot. That's good to hear from him."
Craw understands that Cartwright values leadership from his PG. If Craw takes this decision poorly, he will completely fail on this count.

Also, if Craw plays poorly and demands the trade, the Bulls can tell him to play better for a looong stretch.

I think it helps that Marshal did not get the start either.

And I like the fact that Craw bought a house.

This could work.... Hey, anyone can be an optomist in the off-season.:p
 

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I think it is easier for Crawford to take he is not starting knowing that Marshall is not starting either. I doubt that was a planned move, but beyond the pre-season comments, he really has nothing to complain about and should just play his way into the starting lineup.
 

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I think the Oakley situation last year and Jamal's situation are completely different.

Oakley's only value last season for the Bulls was his contract. Oakley's play last season didn't do him any favors either. I will be very happy not seeing him throw those behind the back passes to the hotdog vendor or worse the other team. The only thing Oakley could of brought the Bulls was another hefty salary that might not of expired at the end of the season.

Crawford, if he plays well, could bring the Bulls something of value. Jamal has upside and he can shoot. Teams will be more willing to trade for an upcoming player than a termite infested Oak.

Krause's comments don't apply to Jamal like they applied to Charles. If Jamal can get you value in return, the Bulls have to make the trade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think crawford should realize the damage is can do against second string PG's around the league- and take advantage of that- for example the first game against boston - crawford will match up against shammond williams- he should kill him- as a matter of fact compare the two benches in general


Boston: Chicago:

PG S. Williams PG Crawford
PG/SG Bremer SG/SF Robinson
SG/SF McCarty SF/PF Marshall
PF Baker PF Fizer
C Sundov C Blount
 

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Originally posted by <b>HJHJR</b>!


Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with your last statement. He can also take the floor and play the best basketball of his life, fully committed to proving that his coach made a mistake. If he pouts he'll only damage the way he's perceived league-wide. And that, more than anything else he does, may be what dooms him to the Bulls bench for a long time. Remember what Krause said a few weeks ago: But Krause said Thursday he doesn't expect Crawford to be a problem, and besides, he doesn't always trade players who are unhappy and want to leave. "Charles Oakley wanted to be traded last year,'' Krause said. "But Oak didn't get traded, did he?

Hopefully Jamal is getting some good advice from his agent and will come out Wednesday and play like an all-star.

well, I agree wholeheartedly in theory. I'm suggesting what I think Crawford and his agent will do based on comments earlier in the week that if Jamal felt that the job was HANDED to Williams he would ask to be traded. Of course it would be better for him to go out there and steal his job back and hopefully he will try to.
 

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I think Krause tipped his hand when he announced picking up the options of Crawford and Fizer.

He called him, not a PG, but a terrific all-around player. I think eventually he wants the guy in the starting lineup...but at another spot other than PG.
 

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Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
I do not know what was said to Crawford privately but I know Krause pubicly said that the job was Crawford's to lose. If that was the case, then I don't think JWill has done enough right now to take it. What I personally believe is that JWill should get the start because he was the second pick and will in the end be a better player than Crawford, but then I didn't set the table, Krause did. The end does not justify the means.
a) Krause should have never made the comment the the job was Crawford's to lose. That decision is Bill Cartwright's to make, and he has made it.

b) We cannot make the judgement that JWill hasn't done enough to take the job from Crawford. We as fans see about 5% of the total play that the coaches see. I'm sure much more entered into the decision than the play of both players during the televised pre-season games.
 

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Bulls Starting PG

This is a great thread, with a lot of insightful comments thus far.

I'm surprised that a "rookie" has displaced a veteran.

There was a time when future All-stars and even future All-NBA players might spend four seasons backing up another (Lucious Allen, a #3 pick, backing up Oscar Robertson and Jon McGlothlin at both guard positions from 1971 thru 1974). And Allen had been a teammate of Kareem's at UCLA, when their team went like 100-1 during the 3 Alcindor seasons.

Anyway, I only hope that management doesn't think that Crawford is going to fly the coop when he can, and they are cutting their losses by not p*ssing off another young guard (Williams), by giving him preferential treatment.

Williams is being hyped like he is the next Nate Archibald, which he isn't. His pre-season shooting percentage is atrocious. It can only go up (I hope).

I can only judge what I see on court. Fortunately I have a 5th row seat on the foul line tomorrow night.
 

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Wait a Minute!!

[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that Crawford at least deserved the opportunity to start the first 10 games of the season or so and show what he can bring in the regular season.

Wait a minute! What exactly has Crawford done to deserve to start? All he has done as a Bull is play decent at the end of last season. Other than that he has either been riding the bench or injured. And besides that, Crawford is not a leader and was not willing to workout with the rest of the team during the offseason. So please tell me, what exactly has Crawford done to deserve to start???




I'm surprised that a "rookie" has displaced a veteran.

There was a time when future All-stars and even future All-NBA players might spend four seasons backing up another (Lucious Allen, a #3 pick, backing up Oscar Robertson and Jon McGlothlin at both guard positions from 1971 thru 1974). And Allen had been a teammate of Kareem's at UCLA, when their team went like 100-1 during the 3 Alcindor seasons.
The big difference here is your example, John Allen, was playing behind one of the greatest to ever play the game. Williams is competing with a guy that is the same age as him, and has never started an entire NBA season.

Crawford and Williams are the same age. They were both very good freshmen in college, but Williams decided to stay and Crawford left after being suspended much of his freshman year. Crawford has done very little in his first two years in the NBA and Williams was the best player in college, leading his team to the national championship. This is not even mentioning the fact that Williams is a harder worker, a better team player, and a MUCH better leader.

So why exactly does Crawford deserve to start????
 

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Crawford happy with not starting?

Honestly, that's the only issue I have with him. That's always been the only issue for me.. him being discontented on the bench and that being unhealthy for the chemistry of the team.

Buying a house in Chicago is good. Having good talks with Cartwright are good. I don't hear Fizer having good talks with Cartwright like this...

The more and more I think about it, the more I think Fizer is gonna get moved. And as many have said on this board, we're probably not going to get a ton in return for him, maybe a banged-up veteran type and a 2nd rounder. Needless to say we probably could have gotten much more for him if we had traded the draft pick away.

But as for Crawford, if we have a top-notch quality point guard sitting on the bench, that can mean very good things. Nick Van Exel, Bobby Jackson, Jeff McInnis are all starting quality point guards in this league, and their teams (Dallas, Kings, TrailBlazers) will all benefit quite a bit from it. Even though those teams have really strong starting point guards (Nash, Bibby, questionable on Stoudamire), their backups still contribute significantly. Bobby Jackson is always perennially considered as 6th Man candidate.

I just didn't think he'd be contented with it. I see teams as having stars and then role players, not stars and more stars. But as I brought up in an earlier thread, maybe having huge talent on the bench is no bad thing, if they are willing to play backup minutes and work hard for the team.

No, it's no bad thing at all.
 

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Re: Wait a Minute!!

Originally posted by <b>The Truth</b>!

Wait a minute! What exactly has Crawford done to deserve to start? All he has done as a Bull is play decent at the end of last season. Other than that he has either been riding the bench or injured. And besides that, Crawford is not a leader and was not willing to workout with the rest of the team during the offseason. So please tell me, what exactly has Crawford done to deserve to start???






The big difference here is your example, John Allen, was playing behind one of the greatest to ever play the game. Williams is competing with a guy that is the same age as him, and has never started an entire NBA season.

Crawford and Williams are the same age. They were both very good freshmen in college, but Williams decided to stay and Crawford left after being suspended much of his freshman year. Crawford has done very little in his first two years in the NBA and Williams was the best player in college, leading his team to the national championship. This is not even mentioning the fact that Williams is a harder worker, a better team player, and a MUCH better leader.

So why exactly does Crawford deserve to start???? [/QUOTE]

It was Carwford's job to lose. What exactly has JWill done to deserve to take that job from him? Nothing. The best player in college means exactly zilch. Hell, Christian Laetner was regarded by many as the best college player around in his day..so was Harold Minor.
 

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Well, I would be willing to bet that Jay Williams has yet to refuse to come in to work out with his teammates at the request of his teams head coach and GM :grinning:
 

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Re: Re: Wait a Minute!!

Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
The best player in college means exactly zilch. Hell, Christian Laetner was regarded by many as the best college player around in his day..so was Harold Minor.
Laetner, maybe. Minor, no way in hell!

p.s. I will whoop your butt in Fantasy, too.
 

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And Jay Williams has not been kicked out of practice. And it is obvious that Jay Williams is a much more gifted leader.

I'm not saying what Jay Williams did in college makes him deserving of the starting job. What I'm saying is just because Crawford's been in the league for 2 years doesn't mean he is deserving either.

Williams could have gone out when Crawford did, and then he would be a 3rd year player now as well. He decided to stay in college, instead, and work on his game. Crawford, on the other hand, was suspended much of his freshman year, went pro, and has had two very uneventful pro seasons.

So you think the Bulls should award the job to Crawford because he came out earlier than Williams, thus he's been in the league longer????
 
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