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· kiss my grits
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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I posted a day or two ago somewhere on this board that Jameer would soon be showing up on peoples underrated lists and then today Jameer appears on the John Hollinger All-Underrated Team ...

PG: Jameer Nelson, Magic
While it's rare for a former college player of the year to fly so far under the radar (could you even imagine Adam Morrison or J.J. Redick being on an All-Underrated team two years from now?), in Nelson's case truth is stranger than fiction. Because he was stuck behind Steve Francis for a year and a half while playing for an unheralded Orlando team, a lot of NBA observers don't realize what a good pro Nelson has become.

Ask anybody to list the game's top 10 point guards, and Nelson has no chance of being on their list -- but good luck finding 10 that have been more productive. Seriously, don't be shocked if this guy makes the All-Star team next year. His 40-minute numbers are 19.7 points and 6.7 assists, he's doing it while shooting a high percentage on a bad team, and he's still getting better.
Good to see Jameer getting a little recognition. Livingston and Telfair have a long ways to go before they are even anywhere close to as good as Jameer is right now.
 

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deanwoof said:
yup. we certainly did get the two best players from the draft.

though iguodala and deng are getting better by the day
Didn't we have this discussion before? Jameer and Dwight are not the two best players from 2004. At least not yet. If someone offered me Jameer for Iguodala, done deal. Jameer for Okafor, done deal. Jameer for Gordon, not sure.

Kudos to Jameer though, he's really been performing well when given the chance.
 

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JT3000 said:
When's the last time Okafor even played?
Short memory? He was fine last season and has played 26 games this season. Players go through injury-plagued seasons, it's a fact. Jeez, Jordan went down in his second season, played 18 games and came back fine. Now I'm not calling Okafor Michael Jordan, but come on. Nobody went on about Jordan the way people react about Okafor. He's not Grant Hill (yet).

Lately the "homerism" on bbb.net has been horrible, especially in the General forum. I can pretty much predict what most threads will contain. There are the Nuggets fans, the Wade fans, Amareca and his gathering, the Vince and Nets fans. It's getting a lot worse lately, lets not stoop to that. Only a few people on these boards recognize that the best writers (in this case, posters) are the ones who acknowledge and comment on their bias.
 

· kiss my grits
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lachlanwood32 said:
Didn't we have this discussion before? Jameer and Dwight are not the two best players from 2004. At least not yet. If someone offered me Jameer for Iguodala, done deal. Jameer for Okafor, done deal. Jameer for Gordon, not sure.

Kudos to Jameer though, he's really been performing well when given the chance.

I don't think Jameer for Gordon is questionable right now. Gordon was really overrated last year when he had the easiest job in the league ... come in for the 4th quarter and bomb away. He's a tiny SG with no PG skills at all and is really only a scorer ... and not a very efficient one at that. I'd take Jameer over Gordon easily.

And I don't think Iggy over Nelson is really a wash either. He's got a tantalizing package of skills and athletic ability but the questions on him are the same as he had in college. Why isn't he doing more? Is it the team he plays on or is it the way he approaches the game mentally? Can't be sure but as of yet I don't think he has proven anything to make choosing him over Jameer an easy choice.

And as for Okafor, that is a tougher choice. Okafor didn't look so good earlier this year even before he was injured. I think all the weight he put on over the summer actually hurt his game. I guess we'll see how he comes back next year. But I don't necessarily think Okafor is going to be that much better than what he showed last year. I'd have to see more from both before making the choice between these two.

If you go back through last year and this year and look at Jameer's numbers when he has been starting they are pretty damned good. And unlike Iggy and Okafor, Jameer has shown the ability to take the lead of the team and take over offensively. I recall him leading a lot of 4th quarter rallies last year though Orlando didn't necessarily win those games. Had Jameer starting at PG from the get-go last year I don't think it is out of the question that he could have won ROY considering he put up 15-5-5 on 50% shooting when he did start.
 

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Lachlanwood32 said:
Short memory? He was fine last season and has played 26 games this season. Players go through injury-plagued seasons, it's a fact. Jeez, Jordan went down in his second season, played 18 games and came back fine. Now I'm not calling Okafor Michael Jordan, but come on. Nobody went on about Jordan the way people react about Okafor. He's not Grant Hill (yet).

Lately the "homerism" on bbb.net has been horrible, especially in the General forum. I can pretty much predict what most threads will contain. There are the Nuggets fans, the Wade fans, Amareca and his gathering, the Vince and Nets fans. It's getting a lot worse lately, lets not stoop to that. Only a few people on these boards recognize that the best writers (in this case, posters) are the ones who acknowledge and comment on their bias.
No bias here. I have multiple valid reasons to question your willingness to trade our starting PG for an injury prone, overrated PF when our star player already plays that position.
 

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JNice said:
I don't think Jameer for Gordon is questionable right now. Gordon was really overrated last year when he had the easiest job in the league ... come in for the 4th quarter and bomb away. He's a tiny SG with no PG skills at all and is really only a scorer ... and not a very efficient one at that. I'd take Jameer over Gordon easily.

And I don't think Iggy over Nelson is really a wash either. He's got a tantalizing package of skills and athletic ability but the questions on him are the same as he had in college. Why isn't he doing more? Is it the team he plays on or is it the way he approaches the game mentally? Can't be sure but as of yet I don't think he has proven anything to make choosing him over Jameer an easy choice.

And as for Okafor, that is a tougher choice. Okafor didn't look so good earlier this year even before he was injured. I think all the weight he put on over the summer actually hurt his game. I guess we'll see how he comes back next year. But I don't necessarily think Okafor is going to be that much better than what he showed last year. I'd have to see more from both before making the choice between these two.

If you go back through last year and this year and look at Jameer's numbers when he has been starting they are pretty damned good. And unlike Iggy and Okafor, Jameer has shown the ability to take the lead of the team and take over offensively. I recall him leading a lot of 4th quarter rallies last year though Orlando didn't necessarily win those games. Had Jameer starting at PG from the get-go last year I don't think it is out of the question that he could have won ROY considering he put up 15-5-5 on 50% shooting when he did start.

Iguodala's situation in Philadelphia is awkward. Sometimes he'll have 13fga (like tonite) and put up great numbers, then the next night he'll get 5 shots. Since his showing at All-Star weekend though Philadelphia has been willing to use him more, and it's shown through his stats. Plus the best part about his game doesn't even show up on a stat sheet. His defensively ability is great, and will only get better. It's more of Philadelphia's game plan, not Iguodala's mentality if you ask me. Put Iguodala on any team without another star guard who dominates the ball and he'd blossom. As it is Iverson and Webber take a lot of shots, and Korver's a chucker too. All 3 average more attempts than Iguodala. He can't do much if he's not getting plays run for him.

The main question for Iguodala's game in college was his shooting, and his ability to lead and take over. He's shown he can shoot the ball at a decent rate. He hasn't shown he can lead the team, but Philly really doesn't need that yet. As soon as Iverson and Webber take that next step backwards because of age, Iguodala will step up. I'm pretty certain he'll be a star when given the chance. He can't demand the team to run plays for him, and the team needs to keep bigger egos (Iverson & Webber) happy and in check.

As for Okafor, and him playing the same position as Howard, it really wouldn't be a problem. Okafor and Howard could easily work in the same front court, as the Bobcats were planning this year with Okafor and May. Howard's big enough to guard any center in the league, and defense in the paint would be the least of our troubles. It's easier to find a point guard like Jameer than a young 4/5 like Okafor in this league.

As for the taking over on Jameer's part, Gordon's done the same thing for the Bulls on countless occassions. Gordon has definitely been dissapointing this year though, and doesn't seemed to have improved any of the question marks about his game, which is why I was unsure.

I'm just trying to put a bit of perspective and show the opposite side of the coin to people who pronounce we have the two best picks from the draft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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Well, it is obvious we got the best pick of the draft. The 2nd is arguable. I don't think it is out of the question right now to say we got the best two picks of the draft. But it will be at least a couple more years before you can say for sure. There are lots of young guys that have a lot of potential to get better. Livingston, Deng, Iggy, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, Dorrell Wright ...
 

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JNice said:
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Well, it is obvious we got the best pick of the draft. The 2nd is arguable. I don't think it is out of the question right now to say we got the best two picks of the draft. But it will be at least a couple more years before you can say for sure. There are lots of young guys that have a lot of potential to get better. Livingston, Deng, Iggy, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, Dorrell Wright ...
Dwight is really above all of the 2004 draft. I still remember the debates we had on here about Okafor or Dwight too.

I don't understand the Dorrell Wright band wagon. I know HKF is a fan, but he's shown nothing. In HS he showed he was a great athlete that needed to play more basketball. I can't recall of one guard out of HS that sat on the bench for 2-3 years to explode later on. McGrady got time, Kobe got time. Even DeShawn got some time coming out.
 
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