[MichaelOFAZ]

I said it long before the Bulls selected JWill, that he wouldn't be that good at the NBA level. I campaign, to no avail, for the Bulls to select a different player. I argued that JWill was too small to be a SG and doesn't have the pass-first PG mentality. Although it was just one game, I am beginning to believe that I was right all along. What kind of PG shoots 6 for 18 with 6 fouls, 5 turnovers, and just 3 assists? Answer: A highly overrated one. I watched that game tonight and saw JWill gun and miss shot after shot when he was wide open. And then listen to the announcers talk about how special he's going to be. Talk about a total bias. Compare JWills stats to JC's (who had a horrible game by his standards), JC was 3-8 with 5 rebs, 3 assists, and zero TOs in just 23 minutes.

What sickens me the most is that I don't care if JWill shoots 6 for 18 or 12 for 18, I just don't want a PG who shoots that much and doesn't have any assists and has a lot of turnovers to boot. And ideal PG shoots 5 for 8 from the field, has about 4 free throws, 10+ assists, fewer than 3 turnovers, and a couple of rebs. I watched him get schooled by guys who won't even make the Grizzlies too. JWill you were great at Duke, but this isn't Raliegh, NC baby. "You're in the main chamber now, you're going need to use the big-boy voice."

What I saw today was very discouraging. A ball hog who couldn't shoot well against scrubs. He dribbled off his foot, made errant passes, the whole nine yards. If JC isn't starting ahead of shrimpy, I'm contacting the Warren Commission myself and demanding an investigation into the Bulls PG Conspiracy.

One more thing, JWill's crossover isn't nothign compared to JC's.

 

[MichaelOFAZ]

While I agree that summer leagues do not necessarily predict how a player will perform during the regular season, they usually reveal certain tendancies, flaws, and abilities. You're also correct that one game of poor shooting doesn't mean anything. But 19 of 52 over a 4 game stretch is not good, no matter if you're playing in a glorified pick up game or in a regular season game against the world best defenders. As I said in my original post, it's not his shooting percentage that I am so concerned about, it's the fact that he's shooting 52 times, has 21 turnovers, and has very few assists. That doesn't sound like a PG to me, no matter how you slice it.

I hate to correct you since you seem so knowledgable and all, JWill did not play PG for Duke his JR and SR year, he played SG. Chris Duhon played PG (if I am not imstaken). Furthermore, as several ex-Dukies have proven, just because you excel at NCAA level, doesn't mean you're going to do the same at the NBA level. If you doubt me, ask Christian Laetnerr, Danny Ferry, and Bobby Hurly. All of which either won POY or were in the running for it. JWill was a stud at college when he played against guys his size and a lot slower. He also had the benefit of being on a team that was stacked with talent. Duke had at least 4 guys who could carry the team if necessary (Duhon, Dunleavy, Boozer, and JWill).

What concerns me is that now JWill will have to play PG and will match up with guys several inches taller than him and many guys that are quicker than him. The three pointer arc is back a few feet (a few out of his range which is obviously based on his shooting % from 3-pt land).

I love the Bulls more than anyone, but I am just sick and tired about hearing about JWill. I want him to prove himself and to earn his stripes at the NBA level before everyone starts ranting and raving about how great he is or putting him on a Wheaties Box.

As far as my stats would go in a pick up game, I would bet that if I had the same number of open, uncontested shots from the perimeter that I would make more than 6 of 18. No wait, actually I wouldn't ... because even a scrub like me would know that if I was playing PG, my job wouldn't be to shoot. It would be to pass and get my team involved.

As for JWill being a top PG in the NBA, all I can say is that I hope you're right. I just remember everyone trying to tell me that Mateen Cleeves would be a great PG in the NBA too.

 

[MichaelOFAZ]

The Krakken,

To answer your question, yes I watched the game last night. Not only did I watch it, but I taped it and closed examined each play. And yes, I was exaggerating a bit when I implied that all 18 of JWill shots were wide open. But suffice it to say that the vast majority of them were indeed clean looks. I also evaluated his performance on his pass attempts, which were few and far between.

I also noticed that you conveniently failed to comment on his 21 turnovers. But I'm sure that you have an excuse for those as well. After all you're the one with the NBA scouting creditials and the killer cross-over move. I think that just as easy as you're able to evaluate and praise JWill for mediocre play, I am equally entitled to criticize. It doesn't make me a scout, it makes me a passionate fan.

As far Duke positions went, I'm not going to get technical and argue about who played PG, SG, or PG#2. All I know is that Chris Duhon ran the Duke offense a fair amount of the time. And I will concede that JWill played the traditional PG role some of the time. I'll also concede, which is obvious, that he was deserving of POY honors for the past 2 years. But I'll go back to my original point, just because you're a great college player doesn't mean that you're going to be a great NBA player.

As far as your comparisons to Bibby and Francis. Although these guys are capable of scoring, their first priority is to distribute. Which is statisically proven by their apg. As for Marbury, you've proven my point. Marbury is a perfect example of a SG in a PG's body. A guy who can score in bunches when shoot 30 times per game but doesn't have the ability or desire to pass and make the players around him better. Jason Kidd, almost singlehandled tooked Marbury's Nets from last place to the NBA finals because of his ability to make his teammates better. Marbury doesn't have that trait and never will.

As far as there being many guys quicker than him. That's really a matter of opinion and perception. Perhaps is was a bit overexaggerated.

 

[MichaelOFAZ]

I could't agree more CeoChase. I think JWill will turn into a fine player in a couple of years. But JC is a ready, capable, and talented player right now. For those of you who question his ability to take the ball to the hole, I can only say it will happen. From the games that I watched last season on NBA League Pass and the summer league game against the Grizzlies, it's clear to me that JC understand the importance of proper spacing. I've seen him a couple of occasions drive to the basket and put up a floater. I've also seen him take it hard to rim. The new NBA (with zone D) does not support the little man driving to the hoop for some whirlin-dirvish reverse layup nearly as much as it did in years past. Furthermore the Bulls hope to run the Triangle offense which does not support a traditional PG. In fact, a SF could play point in the Triangle and it can be very effective. IMO, JC is an all-star PG in the making. Be patient and I'm sure that you won't be dissappointed. As for JWill, let him cut his teeth with the second unit where he can play against tired starters or players with less talent. Even with limited minutes, I have no worries that JWill take his fair share of shots and several others for that matter.

 

[MichaelOFAZ]

The Krakken, it's become painfully obvious to me that you have two primary objectives; 1. To argue each and every point with me, and 2. To campaign for the Bulls to hand over the starting PG spot to JWill because he was a great college player.

I, on the other hand, seem a little more realistic. First, I don't want to argue with you about JWill ability, potential or otherwise. In fact, I expect him to be a good player in a couple of years. Secondly, I realize the difference in competition level between the NBA and college. I also realize that the college game is considerably different than that of the NBA. I understand that certain players who performed consistently well in college, struggle in the pros. Likewise, there are sleeper players who didn't shine and then excel in the NBA. In any event, I want JWill to earn the starting PG, not just have it handed to him because was a great collegiate level player. I'm sorry if you don't understand that, but that is my opinion. You can't argue with it, because it a subjective issue.

Let it be known that this is the last post that I will make regarding thi thread. You can reply, but just know that I won't respond.

Then I guess guys like francis, marbury, Davis, Iverson, Pierce, and Bryant just don't get it, or understand. After all, they are aggressive and attack the rim all the time.

Well you can remove 3 players from you so-called example right away; Bryant and Iverson are both SG's and Pierce is a SF. Not to mention that Pierce and Bryant are 6'6 and 6'7, respectively. Steve Francis and Baron Davis both play PG and SG interchangably. However, they're both 3 inches taller than JWill and much more athletic (ie. vertical jump). If JWill were a few inches taller, he would be better suited to defend at PG and SG positions. Of the players that you've mentioned, Marbury is the only one who is less than 6'3" and he is the best comparison to JWill. A guy who is capable of scoring a lot (while taking a lot shots), but does not think pass first. Yes I agree that they all attack the rim, I never said they a PG shouldn't. I simply said that today's defensive schemes are more easily overcome with proper spacing. For examples see, the Lakers, Mavs, and Kings. If I know you, you'll probably come back with examples of how Nash and Bibby penetrate to create space for permiter shooters. And you'll be right. And if JWill does that on a consistent basis and doesn't have the most shot attempts (per minute) of anyone on the team, then I will say that he'd be pretty solid PG. However, nothing that I have seen or read (box score) thus, far has led me to believe that it will happen anytime soon.

This statement baffles me the most. Earlier you stated that since Jay was a shoot first PG, that he was not traditional. And now? If in traditional you mean size wise, well it supported BJ armstrong and Paxon ok....and Jwill may be the most athletic "traditional" 1 to ever play in the triangle. Paxon, Armstrong, Shaw, or FIsher??? Please.

I'm so sorry that you're so easily baffled. I'll try my best to simplify it one last time for you. As I said before, JWill is a SG in a PG's body. Meaning that he's way too short to play anything but PG as he would a defensive liability but he has the mentality of a SG, in that he thinks shoot before pass. And no, I am not reading his mind and simply making an assumption based on the fact that he shot 18 times and passed less than 10. Afterall we already had a short PG who could not only shoot, but could pass as well and we cut him (El Amin). BJ, Paxon, and Kerr were all PGs who sat out on the perimeter waiting for Michael to be double and triple teamed and then could knock down the wide open J. Something that JWill has yet to prove that he can do at the NBA level. Now, if the Bulls had someone who commanded a double team as Jordan consistently did and they had a multi-dimensional SF like Pippen or Kukoc, then I would say that JWill would be a great PG. But this is 2002 and the Bulls have a different mix of players. This is a team that will thrive in the open court and will anchor their half-court offense by feeding the post, interior passing, and kick outs to the perimeter for open looks. The offense does not support a player like Kevin Johnson or Isiah Thomas who were known to penetrate for a reserve lay up. Yes, before you get your panties in a wad, I admit that the PG must have the ability to take the ball to the rack if the opportunity to do so is there. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a main staple of the Bulls offensive repitore. The Bulls, in the Triangle will prosper with a quadruple threat, Curry and Chandler down low, Rose and JC at the perimeter. History has proven that you don't need an athletic PG for the triangle to work. You just need a PG who's willing to pass and who can hit an uncontested shot.

ANd Y would we do that (i.e. Let JWill come off the bench his 1st season)? And facts do you base your assumptions on? Please make them count.

The concept is quite simple. Make him learn the NBA game from the sideline just as most other PGs do during their first season. JC had to do it. What makes JWill too good to do the same? My assumption are based on what I see, not on hype as they are with you. Plus, I think JC is a better all-around PG.

The End.

 

[MichaelOFAZ]

SettingUShop, I respect your opinion more than any other (of whom posts to this board.) But although I agree that JWill will be a good player for the Bulls, I don't see him starting until at least All-Star break. I think the reason that JWill is getting so many minutes at PG these last couple of games, is because it's clear that he needs it the most. As for Roger Mason Jr, the Bulls are still trying to figure out how he fits into the puzzle. If Jalen truly wants to play SG, then the Bulls are stuck with 7 guards, Jalen, JC, JWill, Mason, Hassell, Hoiberg, and Richardson. If Mason can prove in summer leagues that he can play the point respectably, it's pretty much good-riddens to Freddie and Richardson. Leaving the Bulls with a pretty diverse backcourt. JWill who can play (offense and defense) PG. JC, who can play PG and SG (although he may struggle a little on defense at SG). Jalen (who struggles on D no matter what position he plays) can play PG, SG, and SF. Hassell can play SG and SF. Mason can play PG, SG, and maybe a little SF. The front court will be comprised of ERob, Fizer, Chandler, Baxtor, Curry, and one of two yet-to-be named free agents. A journeyman PF/C and a veteran SF. However, if Jalen is willing to play SF. The Bulls will be set with just another PF/C.