Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,856 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was asking myself, why every1 keep saying Rj is a better defender than vc. So i went and did my research so far this season, and searched for deffensive stats and compare the two.

first game vs Bucks:

Vc: 2 BS, 0 steals
Rj: 1 Bs, 1 steal

2nd game vs raps:

Vc: 1 Bs, 1 steal
Rj: 1 Bs, 0 steal

3rd game vs chicago ( vc making an important block at the end)

Vc: 1 Bs, 2 steal
Rj: 0 Bs, 1 steal

4th game vs Miami

Vc: 1 Bs, 1 steal
Rj: 1 Bs, 0 steal

5th game vs utah

Vc: 2 Bs, 1 steal
Rj: 0 Bs, 1 steal

6th game vs Indiana

Vc: 0 Bs, 3 steals!!
RJ: 0 Bs, 1 steal

7th game vs houston

Vc: 0 Bs, 2 steals
Rj 0 and 0!!!!

8th game bs Seatle

Vc: 1 Bs, 2 steals
Rj: 1 Bs , 1 steal

todays game:

Vc: 1 block, 2 steals
RJ: 1 block , 2 steals


Carter is beating Rj in almost all 9 games in steals and blocks...!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
It's not fantasy basketball.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,856 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
VC posterized me said:
It's not fantasy basketball.

ok then same could be said for Rj getting better stats than vince?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
703 Posts
Stats do not indicate how well someone played nearly as much as most fans and "experts" think....especially steals and blocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,856 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
cpawfan said:
Attempting to define defense by steals and blocks is plain silly.

then what is defense? Most defensive plays are blocks and steals ... i understand there is the factor of putting hand in the guy's face. but no blocks and steals are not silly to define defense. More rebounding is silly to define a better a player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Defense is so much more than that. How about staying in front of your man? Making him take difficult shots? Those are the single most important aspects of defense in terms of a guard perspective. Steals are almost an overrated commodity, I mean how many extra points offensively and defensively + does two steals a game lead to?
 

·
Volleyball Coach
Joined
·
24,902 Posts
VC_15 said:
then what is defense? Most defensive plays are blocks and steals ... i understand there is the factor of putting hand in the guy's face. but no blocks and steals are not silly to define defense. More rebounding is silly to define a better a player.
Actually, very few defensive plays are blocks and steals. Good defense involves such things as making the player you are guarding take a bad shot or give up the ball because they aren't able to get a shot off. Things such as opponet FG% and the difference between what the player averages and what they produced that game are far better indicators of defensive aptitude than blocks and steals.

Steals for the most part represent a player taking a chance and succeding. More often then not, a missed attempt at a steal results in an easy basket. There aren't stats kept on how many steals a player actually attempted.

So yes, using only blocks and steals to define defense is very silly.

Rebounding is a lot about effort, so yes, it is a very valid comparison. Just as blocks and steals are valid items to use to compare players. However, you can't draw conclusions about players defensive aptitude and performance just from blocks and steals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Steals is one of the silliest stats to award to a player.

How many steals are caused by a player actually taking the ball away compared to the offensive player losing it, or another player on the team knocking it free for his teamate to get the ball?

You can't judge a player by ANY stat because the better the team the less stats usually factor into it. Look at Tim Duncan, he is pretty nice statistcly, but not the best, yet he probably could be the best player in the NBA (Shaq is starting to wear down imo).
 
  • Like
Reactions:

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,196 Posts
VC plays more in the lanes although lately, he's been better defensively. RJ is more of a one on one defender with the ability to keep you in front of him.
 

·
Wolves Enthusiast
Joined
·
6,038 Posts
To make this even credible you would have to show how many minutes they went up against which players, how the player they guarded did, their shooting %, fouls..ect. Defensive ability is not based on blocks and steals.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,239 Posts
Larry Hughes led the NBA in steals per game last year.
 

·
Burned
Joined
·
18,772 Posts
You sure know how to celebrate a win!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,856 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
VC posterized me said:
Steals is one of the silliest stats to award to a player.

How many steals are caused by a player actually taking the ball away compared to the offensive player losing it, or another player on the team knocking it free for his teamate to get the ball?

You can't judge a player by ANY stat because the better the team the less stats usually factor into it. Look at Tim Duncan, he is pretty nice statistcly, but not the best, yet he probably could be the best player in the NBA (Shaq is starting to wear down imo).

ok so larry hughes leadind steals last year did affect the decision of putting him what 2nd or 3rd all nba defensive team? why you think Ben was awarded defensive player?.. the guy blocks shots like a machine.
 

·
Wolves Enthusiast
Joined
·
6,038 Posts
VC_15 said:
ok so larry hughes leadind steals last year did affect the decision of putting him what 2nd or 3rd all nba defensive team? why you think Ben was awarded defensive player?.. the guy blocks shots like a machine.
Defensive rebounds are there too. But whate you need to see is how he shuts down any guy he defends. And yeah a bunch of blocks, because he got around for weakside blocks and just not allowing people to take it inside.
VC is not what you make him out to be defensively. He is above average. Every above average defender is averaging the same type of block numbers and steals.

What I am trying to say is that just showing the stats up there show nothing to whether VC is underrated and RJ overrated. RJ stays in front of his man and doesn't allow his man to score that much. Its different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,502 Posts
RJ's one on one defense is better than VC.VC is not bad at defense, his steal and block is good, but that doesn't mean VC is good at one on one defense. But I feel that VC has improved his defense skill. good !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,657 Posts
VC_15 said:
ok then same could be said for Rj getting better stats than vince?
both of them aren't really stopping the opposing SG/SF!

I think RJ's just in a defensive slump! letting Artest and Tmac drop 65pts on u is harsh then jamason dropping 23!

RJ's either going up against hot people or just not doing as well as everyone expects!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,079 Posts
This has become beyond annoying
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,662 Posts
Lord-SMX said:
both of them aren't really stopping the opposing SG/SF!

I think RJ's just in a defensive slump! letting Artest and Tmac drop 65pts on u is harsh then jamason dropping 23!

RJ's either going up against hot people or just not doing as well as everyone expects!
I agree with this...I've said it before RJ is a good defender but not GREAT like some fans think he is.

As for Carter being a better defender than RJ, i believe so after watching Nets couple of games honestly. And i'm not basing this on stats neither...but its onl 9 games maybe RJ is going through a slump defensivley like Carter offensivley.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top